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BREAK by Uday Jadugar

Visually bend and BREAK a signed coin in half - then let the spectator keep the pieces.More Details

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Card Cheating

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JoshuaGillespie, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Where can I find a source for practical aspects of using card sleights in a card game? I've found that whilst I can do the sleights I'd still have no idea how to do them at a card table. It's okay to know how to false shuffle or bottom deal, but how are the cards located, and how to you manage the attention of the opposing players? Don't worry, it's for educational purposes only.
     
  2. The book you're looking for is The Expert at the Card Table by S W Erdnase.
     
  3. No it's not; I already have that. EATCT goes quite far into sleights but not very far into the theory, mindset and misdirection. I.e it's the exact opposite of what I specified in my request.
     
  4. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar Banned

    Also see How to Cheat Your Friends at Poker: The Wisdom of Dickie Richard by Penn Jillette and Phantoms of the Card Table: Confessions of a Card Sharp by David Britland and Gazzo. These both cover when and where to use a move in a game, however when playing with an "advantage" you need to be able to plan what to do as well as think quickly and improvise.
     
  5. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar Banned

    Thats not entirely true, read the player without an ally and everything else VERY CAREFULLY.
     
  6. I'll definitely keep those in mind, thanks a lot!
     
  7. Well okay I accept that there is some but I'm interested in finding more :p
     
  8. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar Banned

    Check out the books I mentioned and read Erdnase while you wait for those to arrive.
     
  9. Sorry Joshua, I'd recommend reading Erdnase again to pick up on the stuff you've been missing. You asked about how cards are located. Well, you might want to peruse the various ideas on culling. You asked about managing the attention of the other players. Think about Erdnase's approach to changing the moment. The reason I specifically recommended Erdnase is because, if you get a firm grasp on all the principles and subtleties that he teaches, you'll have a solid foundation in moves, misdirection and theory to act as a springboard to other material. In the same way that Alfred North Whitehead characterised Western philosophy as "a series of footnotes to Plato", most post-Vernon work on card table artifice is, essentially, "a series of footnotes to Erdnase".
     
  10. Don't know what you're talking about, Uno and Phase10 can help immensely when incorporating bottom deals.

    Kidding, sort of. TeeDee and Wunderbar are dropping mad knowledge about card cheating - I would listen to them.

    Most dealing demonstrations done in magic are stacked and the outcome is the same with each performance. I wonder, has there been a card cheating demonstration that is completely random and interactive? I'd be interested to know.
     
  11. If you use a marked deck (Madison Players for exemple), you can use second dealing. You just need to quickly read the marking, and give you the best card! :D - If it is a "borrowed" deck, you may prefer to use a bottom :) - That is just my opinion, and I believe Erdnase encourages the second dealing with markings. However, and I think you know it, just don't use these sleight in a real poker game. Some card cheats (like Daniel Madison, again! :p) passed near death because they have been caught. ;)
     
  12. This comes to mind first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f085e9TjIJs
     
  13. JasonEngland

    JasonEngland theory11 artist / card mechanic

    Joshua,

    There isn't a good book that offers what you're looking for. Although I'm a huge fan of The Expert at the Card Table, I agree that the book is long on sleights and short on application. My own theory is that the author had little real-world application to draw on, so he concentrated on what he loved best - the physical moves themselves.

    To answer your question in a round-about sort of way though, you have to understand the games themselves. Cheating at Gin Rummy isn't the same as cheating at Hold 'Em, and neither of those are the same as cheating at Bridge. You get the idea.

    In Gin Rummy, a good player can get by quite nicely just by killing a few cards (holding them on top through the shuffles and then letting the opponent cut them deep into the deck and out of play). That won't work in Bridge, where all 52 cards are dealt out. In Bridge, covert (and illegal) communication between partners is the move that you have to look out for. Everything else is secondary.

    In poker, due to the variety of games and formats, there are more ways to cheat than perhaps at any other game, but you still need to get more specific. In lowball, just giving your opponent a single high card will destroy their hand. In Hold 'Em, while there are some exceptions, giving your opponent high cards isn't something you would normally make a habit of. In Hold 'Em, you might rather know a card or cards coming on the flop, turn or river. The possibilities are many and varied.

    In short, to understand application for the moves you've spent so much time on, you have to understand the games themselves. I recommend a good book on general card games and their rules. You'd be surprised at how much you could learn just by reading those types of books.

    Jason
     
  14. Erdnase actually does not advocate the use of readers he merely mentions that the second deal is often used in conjunction with them, but 'The clever professional who values his reputation will have nothing to do" as he says in reference to using readers, as they are incriminating evidence.

    Qlancy
     
  15. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar Banned

    Why thank you Zach.
     
  16. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar Banned

    Actually there is good chance you will not be caught. If you're moves are polished (but not to polished) and you do not use anything ridiculous (I am looking at you Daniel Madison) you will be pretty safe. Also maybe hold back on the emojis a bit ( actually a lot).
    Just remember the three B's
     

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