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Is Cardistry recognizable?

Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by maxllah, Nov 26, 2013.

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  1. we've all heard of skateboarding and bmx and football. but does everyone know what cardistry is. if you were to show someone then they would understand. I live in Maryland and, the only public display of cardistry was Andrei's commercial back in 2012. I don't see any bicycle playing card commercials, but yet everyone knows what those are. if you have any ideas on how to promote cardistry or just want to say something about this topic, please write
     
  2. Cardistry wasn't even a word until a couple of years ago, and it was made up specifically to sell custom cards and DVDs. Before that it used to be flourishing and manipulation artistry. In fact, most of the people who actually perform this for money will refer to it only as that. If you try to book a gig calling yourself a "cardist" odds are the venue is going to respond, "What the hell is that?" and book a band instead.

    And no, most people aren't aware that this is a thing because the overwhelming majority of you guys never perform. You make no attempt to get yourselves out there. Having a YouTube channel with a bunch of videos with your disembodied hands spinning cards repetitively to dubstep tunes doesn't count.

    Furthermore, there isn't really a culture around this. Outside of the Ulmen Trials, there's no competitive circuit that I'm aware of. There are no well-established social groups offline for this sort of thing. Trying to organize artists in general is like herding cats, but I really don't see any effort being made.

    No offense, but I see this sort of thread every couple of months and the answer is always the same. You guys complain that what you do isn't more recognized, but you're not doing the work to make it so. I'm not sure what you guys want me to tell you, but I'm running out of ideas here. There are only so many different ways I can explain this and it's just not sinking in.
     
  3. Andrei

    Andrei vp, production [theory11] Staff Member

    Cardistry was a term that evolved from Flourishing/XCM, the efforts made possible by the community of Decknique. Had nothing to do with selling anything.

    Overall, I like to look at it visually. Like this,

    (Community Effort ^2 x Time) / Doubt = Awesomesauce

    Cardistry happens to excel in the media format because it's the format that is most accessible. What's awesome is anyone can make a video and start knocking on doors. Doing it live is a different circumstance though.

    As far as reaching people, I think the internet is where it's at. I think that commercial reached more people than all the people I ever showed cardistry to combined. With time and effort from the community pushing it on that front, I think quite a bit of people will know what Cardistry is. Not sure how long it will take, whatever "it" is - but the difference between awareness levels of now and a decade ago, is pretty huge.

    SO, keep efforts high, doubts low, and be persistent.
     
  4. I'm in too good a mood to argue, so whatever you say.

    ... I guess that's one of those "you had to be there" jokes?

    What doors and where? That I think is the problem. The prevailing attitude seems to be a shotgun approach. Let me just spitball for a minute to illustrate my point.

    All businesses start as a response to a demand in the market. The problem with the flourish community right now is that demand for this type of performance is very limited and awareness, while better than it was 10 years ago, is still incredibly niche. Furthermore, relegating it strictly to commercials and video only further narrows the scope of what is possible. These are challenges that, while not insurmountable, a performer still needs to be aware of going in.

    So let's take a hypothetical young flourisher. For the sake of discussion, we'll refer to him as James. James understands the challenges described above, so he decides to start small and work his way up. The first thing he needs to do is hone his skills through practical experience while also absorbing performance theory and media theory.

    James begins this little trek by going onto the streets to do short flourishing routines for tips in the style of a busking juggler or a guerrilla magician. The streets are a true crucible that force you to step up your game in a hurry or you don't get tips. James also searches for open-mic nights at all the local coffee shops, juice bars, etc. This also serves the double purpose of being an excellent place to network with other local artists. Remember, to get on TV, David Blaine first did an insane amount of networking among the various artists, actors, filmmakers and musicians in his native NYC. He learned all about media from them and it in turn enhanced his own abilities as a performer.

    At the same time, James goes to the library to learn a little about marketing and copywriting. He's going to be a one-man operation for the foreseeable future, so he needs to learn the business side of entertainment. Once he's feeling more comfortable in front of audiences, he starts by setting up an online presence with some social media, maybe a website, but most definitely building up a mailing list. He collects emails whenever he performs and keeps people updated of when and where he's going to be performing, what new material he's working on, new videos, etc.

    Once he's established as a regular at the open-mic nights, he starts asking the bosses if they could give him some testimonials for his website. By now, if he's tracking the open rate to his email list, he should have a better idea of what demographics and types of people respond to his act as well as what aspects of it people seem to like the best, including in his own personality and the persona he projects when performing. With a handle on this, he sheds what isn't working and plays up what is.

    For the sake of argument, let's say that James is a debonair, charming guy like an old-fashioned movie star. He's classy, witty and keeps his mouth shut enough to be intriguing and a little bit mysterious. He starts performing on stage wearing only black and white and using cards with similarly classy looks. He notes that his audience especially likes the aerial moves he's worked into his show, so he expands on that, even adding card throwing to his list of skills. He might even make vegetable chopping with thrown cards a part of his act.

    Once he has a decent list going (at least several hundred strong) with an open rate of higher 10%, that's enough for a modest, though not great start. He puts together a list of bars, clubs and other venues that are known to book live entertainment. If he's kept up with his networking, he might even team up with a couple of other entertainers such as musicians to offer a package deal to the prospects. They put together the direct mail campaign and follow up. They persist in mailing and calling until they either are given the gigs or the venue starts hanging up on them. One of the hooks James uses in his campaign is the uniqueness of his act translating to word of mouth and bragging rights for the venue. They're hosting a talent unlike anything else in the area, drawing people in through sheer novelty. Your job as an entertainer is to always, no exceptions, make the guy who booked you look good and possibly make him a little wealthier by the end of the night.

    When James finally does get his gigs, he always, always, always tries to add as many people as he can to his list. He gets more testimonials. He sends out new mailers. He designs mail campaigns to venues that already booked him to get repeat gigs. Once he's established himself, he then has a strong platform to jump into other media such as TV appearance, web video at popular sites, etc.

    Can the same end result be achieved through serendipity? Yes. But Cinderella stories are few and far between. It's playing the lottery. It cannot be depended on to produce consistent results.

    This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The above story is hypothetical, but the actions I described work consistently. It's very doable, very achievable. It does require work on your part, but it's far more likely to produce results than just posting more videos on YouTube and hoping that someone sees you.
     
  5. i'm just speaking hypothetically, but I think a cool way to promote cardistry is to introduce it to a big company like "red bull" where this type of art will exceed and it would be something new
     
  6. Cardistry in my opinion will only bloom in the media world. Face to face, street magic or close up is better. On stage, manipulation and props prevail. I used to yo-yo; and I'm pretty sure that cardistry will never evolve past yo-yoing in form and style. Mixing cardistry as flourishing during a trick may be used as icing on the cake, but I don't think that it can ever flourish (he-he) independently in front of any audience.

    I think that if people really want to go far with making cards look cool in motion, card manipulation is the way to go.
     
  7. Red Bull? Like the energy drink? Well, if you're to try that you better have one hell of a pitch ready. This is a multi-million dollar company and they're going to need some serious convincing that you bring enough value to the table that it would be a good move for them to feature you in their marketing.

    What I think a lot of people fail to understand is that in business, everyone is asking, "How does this benefit me?" The burden of creating value lies with you. I think that's where a lot of you guys trip up. You're not attempting to create value, you're assuming that everyone will love this stuff as much as you do. Not good enough.

    Furthermore, what does flourishing have to do with Red Bull? What's the connection? One of my absolute favorite marketing campaigns of all time is The Most Interesting Man in the World by Dos Equis. He's not a spokesman, he's not a personification of the brand or a mascot. He's a character who agrees with the message of the Dos Equis brand: life should be lived interestingly. It exploits pop culture tropes of men's lifestyle and adventure magazines to create this composite character who's memorable and is inextricably associated with the beer. A work of marketing genius. Compare that to literally thousands of other campaigns where you remember the commercial, but not what they were selling.
     
  8. he's just giving Red Bull as an example of a big company dude... calm down... lol...
     
  9. What exactly makes you think I'm angry over an example? The fact that I was speaking in complete sentences without chatspeak or smileys? I'm making a point, duder. You guys talk a big game about increasing the visibility of your art. And that's great, but you need the nuts and bolts. And I can do that for you. Depends entirely on whether or not you're willing to listen.
     
  10. I see what you did there.

    Also, side note - Those Molson "I am Canadian" commercials were pretty good, too.
     
  11. cardflourisher95 thank you
    i saw a youtube video on gopro meets extreme card flourihing
    and this made me think
    "how cool would it be if card flourishing was introduced to red bull. because it is hyper visual and it is pretty difficult jusy like shatebaording etc.
    I also thought that it would be a big promotion for theory11 since these are some of the best around
    Andrei, Michael and Dimitri
    lastly this would just be a sponsorship
     
  12. Red Bull would need to make money from it. That is why they are all over Formula 1, MLS, WRC and other events where large amounts of people pay money to see the event.
     
  13. Pretty much, yeah. You guys need to be thinking of the bigger picture. If you went up to the CEO of Red Bull or any other multi-million dollar company for a sponsorship deal with that attitude, and your pitch is all about how cool you look spinning cards, his response would be, "Look, I don't have any change. Leave me alone."

    Start small, work your way up. Dream big, sure. But you have to start somewhere. Before Iron Maiden were playing arenas, they were playing bars. Before Jack Nicholson won Oscars, he wrote screenplays for scale between waiting tables. Before Seigfried and Roy were Vegas headliners, they lived out of their car doing kids parties.

    Everyone you approach is asking, "What's in it for me?" No, that is not negativity. That is reality. You have to sweat and be opportunistic as hell to get ahead. Making low 6 figures isn't even that difficult relatively speaking, but you've still gotta work for it.

    So let's make settle on that. Where do you guys want to take this? Where do you see yourselves in ten years?
     
  14. i don't know, so just keep doing what your doing and practice, and don't worry about the future because you'll get somewhere with the skills you have

    I promise
     
  15. Funny thing, that. Every successful person I've ever met disagrees. Yes they kept their head up and persisted, but they actually had real goals, not some vague, nebulous, poorly defined bliss ninny vision. They didn't always know exactly how they'd get there, or what the fine details would look like. But they knew where they wanted to be.

    Sorry, but this meme that optimism alone can conjure success out of the aether is nonsense. You need to figure out where you want to go and work toward it. With no path, plan or purpose, you'll just wander aimlessly and make only meager progress.

    I know that I want to be a world-class mentalist and memory expert. I want to own my own cinema/pub called Midnight Movies. I want to be making 6 figures annually at the absolute minimum. I want to own my own multimedia production studio where I and my inner circle of artists can create movies, music, games and other projects for a devoted circle of fans. I want to travel the world and see every single one of National Geographic's 100 Destinations of a Lifetime. I want to be able to speak multiple languages proficiently and pick up enough that I can get by just about anywhere.

    That's a sample of my goals. I have them in front of me right now and I review them every day. As miserable as the last couple of years have been for me, I'm still checking off steps on the path to those goals. Which of us do you think is going to become successful first: you or me?

    Here's the unbridled truth, guy. I know you're not going to like hearing it, but to be successful, you have to have goals and you have to be willing to do the work to make them real. No amount of believing in yourself will conjure you a road map to success. Stop gambling on being a Cinderella story and actually work your nuts off for what you want. If you're not willing to do that, then you're only speeding up someone else's path to success by not providing them with any competition.

    I'm trying to help, I really am. But you guys need to accept that the path to success isn't all sunshine and puppies. There's a lot of sweat involved too and you need a plan. You need to work with me. You can either accept that what you want to hear and what you need to hear aren't always the same thing, or you can keep blowing me off. If the latter... Well, to quote Airplane!: "Chump don't want no help, chump don't GET da help."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  16. you say you don't do cardistry anymore

    then why do you keep coming back to my thread

    you belong in the card magic forum

    if you don't have any good advise then don't bother writing because it's useless

    you sir don't believe hard enough, nothing but negativity
     
  17. Two things. First off, do not presume to tell me where I am and am not welcome. Unless the staff say otherwise, I am free to post in any forum I choose.

    Second, I keep coming back here because I would like to see flourishing do better. I may have moved on to mentalism (that is not card magic, kiddo), but that doesn't mean I don't care.

    Chump don't want no help, chump don't get da help.

    Door's closed, kid. And it's not opening up again. I tried hard enough that my conscience is now clear.

    As an aside, I have clinical depression. It's very difficult for me to break even emotionally. I've contemplated suicide multiple times. But I'm still alive and fighting tooth and nail for a better life. In fact, I have not had a depressive episode since 2003 because I've done everything I can to keep from going back to that dark place. It's not easy and I've still got a long way to go. But it's worth it.

    People are not 1-dimensional, kid. And neither is life. I hope some day you figure that out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  18. this section is for the cardist not mentalist

    if you hadn't left so many negative comments on something you don't even do, then i would like to hear what you have to say, but i don't, i want to hear what everyone else has to say

    i am not the only thread writer here

    start a mentalist forum

    AND i said its useless if you write

    also i don't know why, but on the last page you said that you were in to good a mood to argue.
    you were talking to Andrei jikh, the guy that knows more about cardistry then anyone else in the world
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  19. You have to have goals. One of the best things you can watch is the John Mayer talk he gave at Berkeley. He said you have to set the goal for yourself of what making it is. So is making it big on youtube your goal? Work towards that. Is it having three restaurants where you works doing table hopping three days a week. Only you can tell yourself when you have made it. So set your goals and work towards them.


    Closing yourself off to those of us who go out there everyday working on making sure we make enough money to pay the bills regardless if we do card juggling or not is a little closed minded. Ricky Jay talks about learning from Cardini, maybe the greatest card manipulator and the man who I'm 99% sure coined the term cardist, but Ricky is not a manipulator or a flourisher. He is a slight of hand guy. He was still able to learn things from Cardini.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. who else but andrei

    i mean he is the prodigy of flourishing

    also, we are all different

    you and me like different things, i don't know what you like but, the point is that you may not like everything that i like

    lastly if cardini was alive today who would be better honestly, him or andrei

    who would you say is the most knowledgeable person in cardistry
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
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