What Is Wrong With Magic as an Art Today...

[Dizzi]

I find that the problem is money. It's alright that people make tricks and then sell them But I hate it when people come out with an effect, and sell it for a 20-30$ one-trick, gimmickless DVD. or 30$ PDF. With an effect they';ve been working on for about three-four months. Ellusionist has a huge problem with that first topic. Not to mention they promote one-trick wonders, not routines.

I am not saying anything bad about the people who ahve released products on Ellusionst, Just ellusionist and the 'S' Principakl (Multiple effects on there use it...I won;t say what ones because thats sort of boarderline exposure. All I will say is that one of Waynes effects uses it.)

 

[jonraiker]

It's interesting to note that the U.S. is one of the few countries that don't fully respect magic as an art form. It's ridiculous that you find magic books in the "Hobbies & Games" section of your local bookstore.

As Diego touched on, go to Japan and you'll see everyone respects magic. To them, it's something that is highly respected. BUT look at the originality and creativeness that goes into the magic in Japan.

I don't think I've ever seen Cyril perform something the way the instructions say to perform it. "Say this" or "Say that". He says what he wants. He innovates. He creates. That's what makes his magic something to be valued and respected. That's what makes magic beautiful.

 

[Dizzi]

Jon, you are 100% correct. Canada and the U.S. do not respect the arts much. Look at Barry and styuart. NEVER have I seen such original performances! Same with Cyril! But it's still a different kind of originality. Blaine is monotone...Not really presentation, and Angel is....an asylum escapee with lots of friends...

 

[andymo]

just a theory on how science affects magic

I was read so of the earlier posts and noticed that a lot of people said that less people believed in magic because of science. I have one comment on this. Yes science has affected magic over the year but the real problem is that as magic evolved mind blowing trick that use gimmicks were developed and are now presented in the wrong way and to the wrong audience.

Ex. A quick well preformed invisible thread routine that is present to a well pick audience will hit hard and get great reactions. On the other hand, picking your audience badly and just having something floating in mid air will look arifitial and your spectators will leave feeling cheated and lied to.

Just an idea tell me what you think,
Andymo

 

[AKadmon]

Magic, as an art, suffers from a number of problems. One of the problems is that many young students of magic fail to place the proper importance on the end result, which is affecting the audience in some way. They are often more concerned about learning a secret move, than entertaining, inspiring or motivating their audience. Don't misunderstand me: learning the secret move and learning it well is important. But for the move to go from skill to art requires a shift of focus to the audience.

This focus on the skill rather than the art is natural for young students. And I don't mean only young students of the 21st century. Younger minds often lack the maturity necessary to appreciate their performance from the perspective of their audience. This has always been true. With experience, and age, the successful magic performer learns to understand (at increasingly profound levels) the effect that his performance has on his audience.

Another challenge for young new magicians, is this: Watching magic can be beautiful, entertaining, and inspiring; but learning the secrets of magic can be disappointing on many levels. "You mean that's really all you have to do???" "The coin was always in that hand?" Sometimes people (youth of all ages) are so disappointed when they learn that what seemed to be a miracle was simply the artful use of a concealed device, that they become bitter and seek to expose magic in some misguided attempt at vengeance. Unfortunately, we now live in a YouTube world where that is easier than ever.

A third problem with magic, is not so much a problem with magic as it is a problem with expectations of magic. Magic is a performing art. As Robert Houdin said, "A magician is an actor playing the part of a magician". It is an art that is ultimately based on deception. There is no denying that performing magic requires skill. There is no denying that great magicians, like great musicians, have developed skill that few will master, though many will try. The difference between the magician and the musician, however, is that all of the musicians skill is on display in full view when the musician performs. In contrast, much of the magicians skill is deliberately hidden from the audience when he performs. The musician can demonstrate and explain the intricacies and the technical skills required of their art, while the magician is forced hide his techniques precisely so that he can preserve his art. One consequence of this is that magic is rarely promoted as an art by anyone outside of the magic community. It sometimes seems that many of the people that promote magic are entirely too credulous. They see a magician as a person with mysterious secret skills, rather than as performing artist.

There is an exciting revolution in magic today, and Theory11 is part of that. Magic, as a skill, is becoming far more mainstream than it once was. There are fresh new faces exploding on the scene that demonstrate conclusively that magic is no longer a domain inhabited exclusively by geeks and social misfits. Magic, as an art, on the other hand, is still challenged and will require the efforts of all magicians, young and old alike, to demonstrate and encourage unwaivering self-respect within the art, in order to earn the respect of those outside the art.

 

[jonraiker]

Jon, you are 100% correct. Canada and the U.S. do not respect the arts much. Look at Barry and styuart. NEVER have I seen such original performances! Same with Cyril! But it's still a different kind of originality. Blaine is monotone...Not really presentation, and Angel is....an asylum escapee with lots of friends...

You'll be surprised to find that Blaine is one of my all-time favorite magicians. Why? Because he stood out from all the other magicians. Not only did he make magic "cool" again, but he demonstrated that you don't need a whole bunch of mindless patter to make magic memorable. In fact -- in his case -- it's more memorable if you just say nothing at all. Think of it like this: If you could actually do REAL magic; if you actually possessed supernatural powers; would you talk for five minutes about "Two lovers who were torn apart just like these two 2's I have here. Watch as they become the four, and are united again forever." Absolutely not. You would just say, "Check this out..." and DO IT.

On the complete opposite side of the spectrum we have Derren Brown, another one of my all-time favorites. His patter is what makes his magic / psychology / hypnotism / whatever you want to call it memorable. He talks about girls who claimed they could see with just their fingers... then asks if he can "try something". He then proceeds to demonstrate the feat. That, to me, is powerful. It takes magic to an entirely different level. He doesn't do "card tricks". He uses cards as a tool to demonstrate what he's able to do -- and he explains that to his audiences.

Watch either of the two mentioned above. Don't emulate them, but look at the qualities and traits that makes their magic special. What they do to touch their audiences.

 

[y2john]

You'll be surprised to find that Blaine is one of my all-time favorite magicians. Why? Because he stood out from all the other magicians. Not only did he make magic "cool" again, but he demonstrated that you don't need a whole bunch of mindless patter to make magic memorable. In fact -- in his case -- it's more memorable if you just say nothing at all. Think of it like this: If you could actually do REAL magic; if you actually possessed supernatural powers; would you talk for five minutes about "Two lovers who were torn apart just like these two 2's I have here. Watch as they become the four, and are united again forever." Absolutely not. You would just say, "Check this out..." and DO IT.

On the complete opposite side of the spectrum we have Derren Brown, another one of my all-time favorites. His patter is what makes his magic / psychology / hypnotism / whatever you want to call it memorable. He talks about girls who claimed they could see with just their fingers... then asks if he can "try something". He then proceeds to demonstrate the feat. That, to me, is powerful. It takes magic to an entirely different level. He doesn't do "card tricks". He uses cards as a tool to demonstrate what he's able to do -- and he explains that to his audiences.

Watch either of the two mentioned above. Don't emulate them, but look at the qualities and traits that makes their magic special. What they do to touch their audiences.

Same here

They are both amazing at what they do

 

[TKH]

to be successful you must find the qualities of yourself, and then you need to show in your magic, whether it be humor, your clumsyness,etc., so you arent performing someone else's magic. Thats what Derren Brown, David Blaine, and such did.

 

[Anonymous002]

i agree with jon,
db helped get magic were it is now, many people are inspired by him, and lots of people view magic differently than before. He also was their using things that we have access to, when there was noone else in the mainstream.

 

[Hoobs]

People not doing their homework before they release a trick.

 

[conjure_pitch]

I dont mean to jump in the middle of this, but I suppose thats the only way I can participate. I think that, besides whats been mentioned (in terms of whats wrong with magic as an art today and what can be done about it?) I think quite the opposite of what I see said here. People think that its not getting enough respect which is true. I completely agree but with more respect becomes more mainstream interest. That is a grim future for magic if you ask me. I relate nearly everything to music because thats my prime direction in life. Think of an up and coming band, you start to like this band because they have a good sound. They are awesome and you show your best freinds and they spread the word and soon your entire local area loves this band that you followed from the beginning. People claim to love this band because everyone else does, then by the end nobody really gets into the band (they only say they do to fit in) and the band falls off the radar after thier one big hit. I hate when people do that, thats why I listen to band everyone hates


That said I think that if magic gets more and more accepted as an art then everybody and his dog will want to become a magician, taking away the art itself from all the true artists who have been there from the early stages when magic was nothing but dedication and hard work.


In short here, what I think is wrong with magic as an art is this: Magic is showing early signs of becoming too popular and mainstream (this is nowhere near happening yet but it easily could years down the road.) causing it to eventually fade out completely.


Id like to elaborate on what I mean, but I want to hear others thoughts first.

 

[AceGhatge]

Coming from the land where magic is supposed to be one of its traits all i can say that magic is being commercialised.not for magicians, but for laymen.

 

[DaThroat]

i woke up to find 5 pages of TEXT?!!(different time zone)

well.. in Singapore, i find the problem is 90% of the people around are too arrogant and are afraid to 'lose face' or so they think they would if they appear amazed by the magic presented to them.

an example to illustrate the point: i approach a person in school, someone i know, not some random guy. i ask him to pick a card and all the patter stuff. i ask him if he would like to change his mind, he says yes and picks another card and another, and another.... thinking its a joke. i do some ambitious stuff with his card and talk about a secret move which brings the card to the top. lastly, i show him a double lift and say i haven't done 'the move' yet, then i ego change it in his face. the next thing he says is not 'what?' or at least 'huh?', but is 'the card slid off and went to the bottom right?'

i covered that up with turnover pass, but thats not the point. the point is: is it really so 'embarrassing' for someone to show amazement? instead they take to theorizing and trying to act clever. yes, it seems magicians are thought of as con men these days.

this is the reason why i dare not perform tricks like KAOS or sinful. i have taken to doing more flourishing and manipulation instead of magic.

 

[Chumi]

Art

I really think of magic as an art but in some ways i wish people do not think of it as an art... imagine if magic was as famous as music... it would not amaze anyone because everyone would know at least some "basics"

ex. Lets say 50% of people that has experienced magic thought of it as a normal everyday art... the 300 distortions would be at 0 the day T11 opened.

so that keeps this more of a secret.

The bad thing about what i just wrote is that people dont know that for some sleights you have been practising DAYS, maybe weeks just to make it "look good" (it looks so good you cant look at it ) sure they should not know the moves but at least I would like to perform infront of a magician and get a
"Nice performance" (good magicians treat magic as an art so they might know what that you had to practice.

I also dont like people thinking about magic as kid stuff because a kid might be able to do it but who knows if he will do it good enough to amaze you, to touch you deeply.
After this i just got a big confusion on my mind about this

If everyone considered magic as an art... magic would not exist... but thanks to people not considering it as so... magic does not exist in their life or think of it as stupid

Now talking about magicians... if all of us treated magic as an art there would be less people knowing the secrets.
I bet at least 70% of the people in this site have never learned magic from a BOOK.

If magicians do not treat magic as an art.... they are not magicians...
they are... a bunch of people that know something most people don´t
thats it nothing else.

so i want magicians to think of magic as an art.... but im not sure if i want all people to think of it as so.

sorry if i repeated some lines too many times hehe also sorry for spelling mistakes if any (im mexican)

 

[conjure_pitch]

I really think of magic as an art but in some ways i wish people do not think of it as an art... imagine if magic was as famous as music... it would not amaze anyone because everyone would know at least some "basics"

ex. Lets say 50% of people that has experienced magic thought of it as a normal everyday art... the 300 distortions would be at 0 the day T11 opened.

so that keeps this more of a secret.

The bad thing about what i just wrote is that people dont know that for some sleights you have been practising DAYS, maybe weeks just to make it "look good" (it looks so good you cant look at it ) sure they should not know the moves but at least I would like to perform infront of a magician and get a
"Nice performance" (good magicians treat magic as an art so they might know what that you had to practice.

I also dont like people thinking about magic as kid stuff because a kid might be able to do it but who knows if he will do it good enough to amaze you, to touch you deeply.
After this i just got a big confusion on my mind about this

If everyone considered magic as an art... magic would not exist... but thanks to people not considering it as so... magic does not exist in their life or think of it as stupid

Now talking about magicians... if all of us treated magic as an art there would be less people knowing the secrets.
I bet at least 70% of the people in this site have never learned magic from a BOOK.

If magicians do not treat magic as an art.... they are not magicians...
they are... a bunch of people that know something most people don´t
thats it nothing else.

so i want magicians to think of magic as an art.... but im not sure if i want all people to think of it as so.

sorry if i repeated some lines too many times hehe also sorry for spelling mistakes if any (im mexican)

Thats sort of what I was getting at, I am glad someone agrees with me.

 

[magison83]

This is a great topic, So here I go. I can see were you guys are coming from.

In any art form you are going to have some sort of problems. It comes with

the job. You are always going to have some one giving away secerts. Or a jerk

in the crowd. I think in general magicians get labled alot, it has been said over

over in the thread. I think fixing the problem is easy. Eugene Robert-Houdin

One said that "a magician is nothing more then a actor playing the part of a

wizard." I remeber that every time I go out and do magic. I am a artist,

not a magician. Magician is a label. We are all artists. All good at different

things. Oh I am a horrible speller so sorry if it is hard to understand. I just try

to be myself.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

I think this question is sort of general but has some discussion potential. I think the true foundations of magic have been totally forgotten and people are too into purchasing the latest and greatest tricks and effects rather than simply sticking with the stuff they have.

No one is really into practicing rather than showing your buddies how great of a "mindfreak" you are.

Mitchell

 

[remy]

I think one of the reasons is that people see magic as a childish, pointless thing. They see it as pulling rabbits out of hats, traditional stage magic and such. True, that is magic, but the true artistic form of magic is the thing most people aren't exposed to. They aren't the ones who see the background of a routine, or the actual visual aspect of an illusion. I hope i'm making some sort of sense here.

-remy

 

[Angathorion]

What is wrong with magic as an art today?

Let's define art then. Is art not the free expression of human thought and emotion? Music fits that criteria, as does acting, painting, etc. I am quite aware that this is not the only definition of art, but this may just give some insight.

If we take this as the definition of art, then let us look at how we work our magic today. How many magicians in the world can truthfully declare that they pour their heart and soul into their performances, to bring joy and amazement to their audiences? Too many times, magicians perform to impress. I feel this cheapens the art as a whole. If we view it as nothing but a tool to impress Aunt Betty, as a way of getting laid, then that clearly shows we don't respect what we do.

How can we demand respect from other people, when we cannot even claim to respect ourselves?

 

[Jackhammer]

All right guys - I have my opinions of this, but I want to know what you guys think: How much of the perception that magic is not respected as an art - is in our own heads? How much of it is us playing the part of the starving, underdog, misunderstood artist?

We have all had the experience of telling someone what we do for a living & having them ask "OK but what's your day job?" We've all been laughed at (to one degree or another) for being a magician... but what about a musician?

If someone were to ask you what you do for a living & you were to answer "I'm a musician - I play in a band" or "I'm an artist" - In general, would they take you seriously? I know that we all have that perception of the struggling artist/musician - does our perception affect their art negatively?

I think it is not respected as an art because it is not celebrated as an art form. Every other art form I can think of goes out of its way to celebrate itself in a very public manner. Film is a perfect example. Hollywood stars love to drape each other with awards, their speeches filled with rhetoric about how important their work is as an art form. Musicians are the same.

Painters and sculptures can throw some splashes of colour on a canvas or mold and lump of clay into a very smooth lump of clay and make damn sure the public accepts it as art. How? Because they are very vocal that it is art. They ensure these pieces are displayed in the best museums. They critique themselves so as to ensure the public understands this as art.

So how do we do this as magicians? Well, we are half way there. I think magician's like Blaine have helped bring attention to magic again. So now all we need do is celebrate the craft like rock stars. Hold televised award shows where we roll out the red carpet and establish our art as culturally important.