What Is Wrong With Magic as an Art Today...

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liquidsn

Tony Chang / Creator, Be Kind Change, DVR, The Uni
Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
81
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Maybe we should consider the other side of the coin. Why should magic BE a art? I think we should define what magic is at the core. To me, magic isn't a performance, it isn't about patter. Now before you start attacking me. I'm talking about the CORE of magic.

What is it? I consider magic something that is illogical but logical. I can pass solid through solid. That shouldn't be possible, but we make it possible. Is this really a art? What if i hear someone that can walk on water. Do I think wow... that is a really great art. No. You ponder how that is possible.

I think that magic attacks your logic and your senses so hard that in order to make it a "art", they will need to know our craft. You consider a painter a good painter, because of your personal tastes and comparison with other artists you know. But in the end, Art doesn't defy logic. Now granted Art can get pretty crazy and out there, but the general public would just think "wow.. he must of been high when he did that." But there is no explanation with magic. (good magic that is.)

So maybe the question is Why should Magic fit under the category of Art? Now I'm not religious but would you consider "jesus christ" an artist? or a miracle worker?
 
Aug 31, 2007
263
0
There's nothing wrong with magic. It's all in your heads. You THINK there's something wrong, so that you can try to improve yourself.

Stand back, and the ocean becomes broader, and the sky becomes wider.

- harapan. magic!














Now that my first reaction is out, let's try to pinpoint some simple things I wish to see changed in magic:

1. Excessive exposure, such as on video-hosting websites etc. This isn't a very important issue, but nevertheless, it's quite irritating.
2. Beginners not understanding the time it takes and the dedication it takes to become a magician.
3. Excessive secrecy of magicians.

I would like to elaborate on the 3rd point.

If you are going to say magic is an art, I would say magic is the art of deception. Simple as that. If you bring magic down to its most rudimentary form, strip away the patter, take away the comedy, forget about the presentation, mute the background music... it's just about how people fool others. Magic is really the art of deception.

Problem is, magicians are too afraid to let the audience know it's all a trick, that they're gonna be fooled by a trick, that they're gonna be deceived. Therefore, no audience sees magic as an art - they see it as a "let's-see-if-I-can-catch-him" kind of thing.

If you want magic to be an art, the first step is to be more open.

"Hey, aren't we being more open? Libraries stock books teaching magic tricks, bookstores have magic books, isn't that being open?"

That's not what I meant. "Open" here means to be open about magic itself - you don't have to be open about the specific methods you use in your effects, but you should not be afraid to tell others magic is all about deception. That's what magic is all about - it's an art, yes, but it's the art of deception. Let them enjoy the deception - let them see the beauty in the art of deception. Make them WANT to be deceived, because they want to see the beauty in magic. Let them enjoy the experience.

Magicians guard a very, very empty safe. They try too hard to hide the secret that it's all sleight-of-hand, misdirection and trickery. They think it destroys the "mysticism" of magic. While that might have a semblance of truth, don't expect people to think of you as a Merlin. They may think you have some supernatural powers, but that's because you did your trick well.

Plus, if they think it's all real, magic's hardly an art anymore. It's become some sort of pseudo-scientific phenomenon, in their eyes.

Talking about science, art and science are very related things. Art of science, science of art - in some way, magic can be a science too.

This is gonna get people angry, but sometimes when I'm sitting down, performing for peers, I do occassionally (but rarely) expose a certain sleight or trick. Why? Simple - I am letting them see the art of deception. I let them see the full trick at first, let them be amazed, then reveal how it's done.

Do you think they'll go "That's crap, it's stupid!"? No, I have never ever (honestly) gotten such a negative reaction after an expose. It's always a realization of truth, and they begin to appreciate magic on a different level, outside of just being amazed by the effect.

They begin to appreciate and see magic on the artistic level. How clever magic can be to trick others. How beautiful everything comes together into a nice presentational routine. My audiences understand the work behind a magic trick.

That, to me, is how someone understands magic as an art.

- harapan. magic!
 
Sep 1, 2007
69
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I personally think that exposure is the worst part of our art.

For example, some people will try to "Figure you out" and if they happen to, Maybe they'll start to perform it incorrectly.

Then theres the actual people that expose it on purpose. They'll put revealed effects on YouTube, putfile or megaupload and maybe the actual training video / dvd.

~Magically Mike
 
Sep 1, 2007
30
0
Hi,

Now first of all Magic isn't respected as an art for a simple reason, it is not presented as an art. The problem is that many magicians do magic just to impress other people, get recognized if it is in school or at job and not give the respect that Magic should get. There are only few that really present their Magic as an art.

That is exactly what I've been trying to put in to words for the past 10 minutes!

-Brundo
 
Sep 2, 2007
22
0
What is wrong with magic as an art today?

I can answer it in two parts. One part for laymen and one for magicians.

Laymen: Most people have never seen magic, sure they probably have seen some grandpa tricks like the 21 trick or some simple find my card using a key-card, etc. So they don't know what real magicians can do. I know that before I got interested in magic I had no clue the kind of amazing effects were possible and neither do laymen. I'll give you an example I was on a bus going from Montreal to my hometown and I started to talk to this spanish girl and this jamacian guy who were sitting near me. I talked to them for about an hour and then my sister said "Why don't you show them some magic?" so I agreed and pulled out my cards. The first thing I did was a simple 2 card transpo, I gave them the 2 of diamonds, I have the 8 of spades then I waved my card over her hand. I asked her if she felt it and looked into her eyes. I flipped over my card and she looked at her card. Then she just stared at me and started rubbing the card to see if it would change. Then I grabbed it from her and said 'you gotta rub it the right way' and did a simple color change. I then proceded with two other killer effects. At the end everyone who was watching was laughing or staring and they were amazed. The spanish girl told me later that she had expected me to do some lame tricks but what I did was real magic. So to get back to my first point most people have never seen magic so it is up to us to present the art for what it is and to truly amaze people. I don't know if the people I did magic to will ever see magic again in their lives so I try to make sure that everyone I do magic to sees that magic is an art and it is special.

Now to talk about magicians...

Magicians have created and revolutionized this art and they have also devalued it. Now I can go on a rant about all those kids who buy tricks and expose them in their bad performances but I won't. I want to talk about the way some magicians are presenting the art that lower themselves and magic. Many magicians have practiced the art for years and are extremely effecient in the art of sleight-of-hand they are some who don't know anything about people. I won't name names but I saw a magician performing some 'geek' magic on stage once. His tricks were okay I'm not gonna trash his tricks but the thing that got me, the thing that bothered me was how he was performing. He said a couple one-liner and none of them got laughs. Everything he did every action and every word seemed scripted. He seemed like a robot. There was no connection in between him and his audience and he didn't look like he enjoyed what he was doing. So although he did some pretty amazing feats no one was really amazed because his presentation was garbage. Gazzo on the other hand can connect to almost any audience and make them laugh, that is why he is one of the top street performers in the world. So if there is one thing that magicians could do to help the art of magic it would be to connect to the audience. All the succesful magicians have someway or another connected to the audience. Copperfield does it by giving his stage illusions a story or theme and creating a dreamlike setting. Blaine did it with his silence and mysterious quality. Penn and Teller connect with people through humor usually at Teller's expense.

So if there is one thing I wish magicians could do it would be connect with your audience and try to give them a good time that they will remember and they will respect your and magic. Don't go into your magic thinking this is my victim and I'm going to decieve them. Of course magic is deception but if they leave feeling like a fool and confused they won't appreciate what you've shown them they will dislike you. So if you want magic to be respected you got to present it with respect.
 
If we want Magic to be treated as an art, than we must gain the respect of not only the public, but other performing artists. How exactly do we do this? Well, to be honest, I'm not completely sure.

Magic is thought of as a novelty by many, and this needs to change. What's wrong with Magic? It's not respected.

7/8 of the world have never seen a "true" magician. They've seen there uncle or friends do one coin or card trick, and thats about it. But they've never seen the really strong material...or a really strong performer for that matter. We need to allow ourselves to come into view..to spend more time performing, AS A Magician. Not as the cool guy that can do some tricks, not as a friend who can do "a trick" but as a magician.

If we want to fix these problems, we must start treating it as an Art. A real "artist" is always evolving, bettering themselves. This means following what an actor does: Practicing, Rehersing, Performing and studying. Many of us have the practicing and performing sections of this down. Many also have the studying down, to a point. When I say studying, I do not mean learning new sleights or effects: I mean theory, psychology, acting, and finding a way to combine all of these into your performance.

Rehersing is also something we need to do. Rehersing is different than practicng. It involves performing everything AS IF you were doing it live. This means signing the cards if they actually would be signed, speaking out your patter/script, ripping or folding the cards if they would be during the routine, using all the misdirection you planned such as eye contact and what not. This is rehersing. The full performance with one difference alone: there is no audience.

If other performers saw that the MAJORITY of magicians did this (which they do not at this time,) than Magic would be one step closer to being an art, rather than a novelty.

J.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
1
Hello everybody,
I think the problem is, in the words of Aaron Fisher, EVERYTHING is avalible. Just any joe nobody can go on google and search for the secrets of magic. Now you say that the only people who search for exposed magic are people who are interested in magic. That isn't true whatsoever. I had a friend, I kid you not, who I performed the raven to, and about a week later he had the raven also. That's what's crazy about magic, I understand that the people in magic want to get people to think that it isn't just some cheap novelty act, but at the same time they are overpromoting it. If a laymen see's an amazing illusion or trick on t.v, there is definently a possiblity that he will try to find out how to do it by using the internet. Everyone wants to be a magician it seems. Everyone wants to impress people, everyone wants to scare people, and that may very well be the biggest problem in magic today. Just my 2 cents.
 
Magic here in Australia, is very uncommon.

I know of ONE other Magician in the state that I live in, so for my audience their view of a magician is usually what they have seen on Television, which is usually either your Criss Angel (If they stay up and watch it at 12am on a Tuesday) or someone who looks I guess more similar to your regular Kid Party Magician. They dont see Magic as the art that we perform it as.

Until they actually see someone like myself, or you all perform, they dont understand the act, but usually after seeing one, they appreciate it, and it intrigues them.

Magic today (Looking at the US etc from here) there seems to be a lot more Quantity rather than Quality, new-age 'Magicians' dont understand the skill and practise it takes to perfect a trick, and go out and perform to the world with a dodgy attempted double lift.

People are always going to be able to discover our magic, and work out how its done. but I really do not see this as a bad thing. It should push us to adapt our magic to make it our own, if you get a new trick, think about other ways it could be used etc. Then it will make it harder for the public to work out your magic.

But mainly, Practice, Practice, Practice.

Matty
 
Sep 1, 2007
25
0
You know what's wrong with magic as a form of art??
The point is:Any kind of art,is known and understood only by whom really into it,not just music,but also painting,writing,photographing or something like that.Cause you know how to paint,write,or play piano or something,then you can really appreciate,you know how wonderful are they as a form of art.You know how hard are they,you know how subtle are they,you know how to enjoy them.You have a completely different angle of view from laymen.If the art you enjoyed is not magic,then you haven't to compromise,you can just enjoy yourself and do not to consider anyone else.but, if it is magic,you guess what??You have to let laymen to understand it!!!You have to let them understand your working.It's the biggest problem that magic as a form of art.
 

Ashrei

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
350
2
Well, it's my personal view, and I was born in South Korea, and partial reason I think it's not treated as art in S. Korea is most magicians starts magic as a 'tool' to pick up chicks. Which I am not sure is true in U.S.A. and that gets a lot of guys to be exposed to basic pick-up tricks (if you will) and they have some ideas of how things work. From that point on, they have the perception of the magic being tricks and with 'little work' they can just as easily do that. Also that gives them the mind set if they are get amazed by magicians, that means they are fooled.

Granted, I haven't had that problem with American audiences, they have been pretty generous to me. Only thing that bugged me was the youtube, I would say. I had a friend who had a mutual deal with me, I would perform magic to him each week and he would teach me how to play drums. Later when it was the end of the summer and I had to go back to college, he told me he pretty much knew what I was doing, for he loves watching tricks on YouTube. Then I looked through YouTube and I learned there are practically performances for every trick and well... exposures for some famous tricks (some aren't necessarily exposure by means, it's laziness of the performer who just exposes everything during performance and still posting the trick regardless). I think that probably took the magic away from... well... magic. Which then made the people who respect magic as an art is the ones who either already respected magic as an art, serious magicians, and those who have not been exposed to any of those exposure of magic.

Personally, only thing we can do is to practice, and practice a lot. Just practice so much that even mistakes look like an actual part of the performance. Also if you want to upload video to youtube or metacafe, just make sure you are not exposing the trick. It only takes 2-4 minutes to perform a trick (not the whole routine, which would take longer), which would mean it would take 2-4 minutes to look over the video. If you can't see your mistake, then the audiences will not. I think just that might help settle down the exposing issue... And possibly less people will think we are liers and tricksters and know us for hard works we put into it.
 

bjBueno

theory11 artist
Aug 31, 2007
13
0
Hi guys I think the art is developing and it’s now in a natural rebirth. A swing of time if you will, there was a time that magicians where mystical humans that had super natural powers, these people had crazy effects, such as starting a fire, or finding water, making it rain and all the other Xmen like powers. These where shamans and go back into history all the way to Faros Court, where cup and balls keep them up at night , but today as Magician Chad Long puts it “If you have a business card you are a magician!”

That’s a bit problematic because if we want to take our art into becoming more admired by the public we are going to need some amazing magicians to emerge and amaze the world. Modern audiences need an Old School beat down, bleeding walls, strong villagers zapped from their strength. The context of magic has changed but the need for audiences to experience Aw is eternal. The question is can we evolve in our art to be respect and love by the non-magic world of laymen.

A few more thoughts for our collective brainstorm.
 
I think what is wrong with magic today is simple, Its not performed artistically. What I mean by that is most magicians (beginners and old alike), seem to move very fast through their effects. What does this mean it doesn't look mystical it looks like a trick plus do we mention to our audience this is my art? Leave our performances in their minds as an art. Besides all the exposure those are a few things of why I don't think we are excepted as artists.
 
Hi guys I think the art is developing and it’s now in a natural rebirth. A swing of time if you will, there was a time that magicians where mystical humans that had super natural powers, these people had crazy effects, such as starting a fire, or finding water, making it rain and all the other Xmen like powers. These where shamans and go back into history all the way to Faros Court, where cup and balls keep them up at night , but today as Magician Chad Long puts it “If you have a business card you are a magician!”

That’s a bit problematic because if we want to take our art into becoming more admired by the public we are going to need some amazing magicians to emerge and amaze the world. Modern audiences need an Old School beat down, bleeding walls, strong villagers zapped from their strength. The context of magic has changed but the need for audiences to experience Aw is eternal. The question is can we evolve in our art to be respect and love by the non-magic world of laymen.

A few more thoughts for our collective brainstorm.
As magicians and performers we should be able to create awe with whatever we do, whether it be cards, coins, even the most minimalistic things should create wonder and amazement because that's what we do as magicians.

Mitchell
 
Sep 1, 2007
177
0
It's interesting to note that the U.S. is one of the few countries that don't fully respect magic as an art form. It's ridiculous that you find magic books in the "Hobbies & Games" section of your local bookstore.

As Diego touched on, go to Japan and you'll see everyone respects magic. To them, it's something that is highly respected. BUT look at the originality and creativeness that goes into the magic in Japan.

I don't think I've ever seen Cyril perform something the way the instructions say to perform it. "Say this" or "Say that". He says what he wants. He innovates. He creates. That's what makes his magic something to be valued and respected. That's what makes magic beautiful.

did you see the video? that i put when i posted my reply
 
Sep 1, 2007
177
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if you didnt look on page 4 and click the link and youll be amazed and youll see how original it is
 
Sep 2, 2007
5
0
Chico, CA
Tons of good points, but a lot of them share a common idea.

Blaming other people, and focusing on aspects of the world that are just simply beyond our control.

For instance, exposure is inevitable. So why gripe about it, and say that it's ruining your chances? People steal song lyrics, pirate dvds, take credit for other peoples science discoveries. It's a natural course for anything. There are those bastard children everywhere, and you're never going to be able to get them all. I believe this has been said before, but why not look at this as another aspect of the art. Exposure=motivation for creation. (gay little poem not intended.) Perhaps even aid it a little. Make the important fundamentals more widely available to those beginning. Rather than ridicule someone and shut them down for performing something sub-par, offer them advice, your advice, or your spin on how to perform it correctly. Don't force anything on them, you can't tell someone this is "the way it has to be" and expect them to listen. Share your inspiration.

If you want to be considered an artist, act like one. Create. Put your spin on things. Someone who copies rembrandt for a living may be a good painter, but that guy who put two sticks and blob together on a canvas is more likely to be called an artist. The wedding band that plays old cheap trick tunes might all be extremely talented musicians, but the guy who sits on the corner at the farmers market and plays them on the accordian is the one who has actually taken the time to create something.
Bottom line, there is a difference between someone who is good at something, and someone who uses their inspiration to create.

Take some initiative. You're all capable.

J.D.
 
I really want to try and state an opinion that hasnt been flogged over and over in this thread.. but since its being added to at an impressive rate, my apologies if i repeat the sentiments of others..

Anyway.

My idea is that magic these days is very much out of the public eye, so people dismiss it as a hobby or waste of time. What i mean is, 10, 15 years ago, there were magic shows shown on television, Copperfeild, Paul Daniels et al. People would gather around the TV to be amazed.
Blaine has done wonders for bringing magic back into the limelight, granted that without him, magic would still be stuck in the theatre, but ask laymen what they think of Blaine, and 9 times out of 10 i'd say they view him as "that guy who froze himself/stood on a pole/locked himself in a box for weeks" rather than the magician. The magic has become secondary to the stunts. Laymen dont remember the magic.

We have few ways to connect to the public as a whole and that gets magicians dismissed as a novelty rather than taken seriously. People hear music everyday, most major cities have at least one art gallery, so musicians and painters can connect with the public on the level that there art form is at the forefront of the media.
At the very best, magicians have those ill-remembered "Secrets of Magic Revealed" TV specials, and a slew of badly practised routines on youtube. What does that say about the art? Nothing complimentary.
Also, back to Blaine.. he made his magic an art because he presented himself as a regular man off the street. Jeans, T-shirt, and a deck of cards. No fancy flourishes or anything. People thought he had powers because he looked honest. He didnt look like a sleight of hard artist. He looked 'normal'. If you approach someone with fancy XCM cuts and flourishes.. people will assume you know your way around a pack of cards and assume your magic is in a similar vein. You look like a bit of a show off (no offense to XCM'ers, i have the greatest respect for you), whereas approaching someone casually, people are intrigued as to what you can do, rather than automatically associating a trick with sleight of hand.

I believe we just need a a lucky break. Another Blaine perhaps? Something to get magic back into the public eye and get laymen to see it as an art rather than cheap entertainment. But even thats a fine line to walk. Do we allow exposure (in the media sense, not the revelatory) and for the public to see magic everywhere they go, thereby diminishing the reactions they have but gaining respect as serious artsts, or keep it under lock and key, produce great reactions, but still be viewed as a novelty, a hobby act?


Thats my spin on the whole issue. Apologies also for the length of this, im quite outspoken on the subject.
 
Sep 2, 2007
37
0
The core basis of magic, in my humble opinion, is SECRECY.

Take flourishing for example. When people see a cardist do their stuff
they recognize it takes skill and hard practice to achieve the smoothness and speed of the fluorishes because they SEE IT. They call a spade, a spade. They can't do it themselves cause they instantly recognize that it takes real skill to put the moves off.

In magic, when presented well, specs don't see 'the real work'. What they see is a miracle. They will NEVER KNOW the months of hard work you put in to make your DL as natural as possible. They WILL NEVER KNOW all the blisters you get while you are practicing your muscle pass.

They can't see the work. They can't see the ART. They only see REAL MAGIC (if performed well).

My 2 cents.
 
Sep 3, 2007
12
0
Romania
There is nothing wrong with magic as an art today.If there is something wrong is with the people who perform it badly and post their videos all over the internet.That way a lot of people figure out the methods and magic looses it's charm.
 

JPK

Sep 1, 2007
22
0
Scotch Plains, NJ
Good afternoon.

I just finished reading all of the posts and think a lot of great ideas have already been mentioned. Here’s my take on the topic, coming from a hobbyist that has been studying magic for about thirty years. I do not perform often and when I do it’s for friends or coworkers. This also gives me the advantage of choosing when and who to perform to.

I got hooked on magic when I was about 10. My uncle did a nice torn and restored napkin effect that took me to that place that Paul Harris describes so well as astonishment. By the way I highly recommend Paul Harris’ Art of Astonishment. In the beginning of it he gives a perfect description of what he believes magic is.

Every time I perform an effect I try to remember what’s it’s like, that feeling of astonishment, and do my best to infect my audience with it. If I’m just going through the motions and reciting an effect as taught, step 1, 2,… it’s not going to be very magical to me. If it’s not magical to me, how can I expect it to be magical for my audience?

It takes me a very long time to be able to perform an effect after I first learn it. Perhaps it’s just because I do not do this for a living and do not have as much live performance experience under my belt, but I can’t understand how I can read reviews of a new effect from people who have just received them just days earlier. I just received Panic, Digital, and Distortion the other day, and I can’t see myself working these into a presentation that fits me for months. Sure I could pull off the moves and probably get some nice reactions but it would seem so out of character for me to just do that. I believe Mr. Kenner mentioned this in one of his videos here about how some magicians seem perfectly normal until they perform and then they take on this whole new persona. I can’t do that.

It’s not the effects faults. These are some of the best taught effects I have seen. I think as conjurers we owe it to the creators to take our time and make them our own. Perhaps this is why I have never feared the great and powerful Youtube. By the time I am confident enough in my performance of these, they will not look like a trick you can look up on youtube. They will part of a moment that my spectator will want to cherish. At least that’s the way I approach my performance. I have some pretty skeptical friends who used to try and figure out what I was doing.

Sometimes they actually did. But I accept the blame for that. If I presented it in the right manner, they wouldn’t have even tried. They don’t try anymore. They have learned to sit back and enjoy that moment of astonishment, and I sit there with them. If you watch the performance of Visually Yours that Wayne did for the group of girls, you’ll see that moment in the girls eyes as he handed her the signed card. That is what it’s all about to me. I am not about to worry if magic is respected as an art if I can get that kind of reaction from a person when I share magic with them. Let’s face it, conjurers are a rare breed. There are a lot more musicians and painters then there are conjurers. The good artists in any field make a connection with their audience.

OK. I’ve rambled on enough. Here’s my readers digest version of this post.

1. Don’t worry about magic being respected as an art.. As long as magicians respect the art and share that respect with their audience and each other, it will be all right.
2. Exposure on Youtube and elsewhere is probably a lot less damaging then you might believe. I bet more magicians actually look at that stuff then anyone else. If it bugs you, write an e-mail to the poster of a video. If you see a magician exposing a trick through inexperience, offer them some advice. Of course suggest they remove the video until they perfect it. It might work.
3. Magic as an art can not be hurt from outside. Only from within it's own small community.

JPK
 
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