Thoughts on Criss Angel

Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
I actually came accross this video while browsing through America's got Talent stuff on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1KM8U--QUU&feature=related

Please watch the entire video if you're going to click on the link. The beginning is kinda boring.

Here's what I posted:

Nice job of editing. You successfully used Criss' words and effects and added other people's words so that it fits what you wanted him to say.
And at least Criss did give a disclaimer. Jim on never did or has. Jim persists that he has a power and when it was challenged, instead of defending his "power" he whines.
Congrats. Nice deception.

That video proved nothing. It was just a commercial for Jim. Don't get me wrong, I am not a big Criss Angel fan. But to claim "poor Jim, oh, poor, poor Jim" is just making Jim into something he's not.


Let me ask all of you "Jim supporters" this, and forget Criss. Just drop him out of the equation, and answer this straight out, straight forward "yes or no" question:

Do you really, honestly believe Jim Callahan can speak to a dead person?
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I would like to take a moment to point out something that reinforces my point that Jim Callahan is a terrible actor.

If you watch the Phenomenon clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kAdZcbfiGY

You'll notice that around 1 minute and 20 seconds that Callahan grabs the announcer's wrist just as he's about to break free, pull the man toward him, and then loops his arm around the announcer's.

I've seen smut videos with better acting than that.
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
I would like to take a moment to point out something that reinforces my point that Jim Callahan is a terrible actor.

If you watch the Phenomenon clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kAdZcbfiGY

You'll notice that around 1 minute and 20 seconds that Callahan grabs the announcer's wrist just as he's about to break free, pull the man toward him, and then loops his arm around the announcer's.

I've seen smut videos with better acting than that.

LOL.

He physically PULLED the announcer to make sure he was "held back". Great find, there, Steerpike!

What I don't get is why we are still posting to this thread. It really doesn't matter. Jim is a terrible actor; he tries to convince people he has a "power" but doesn't use that "power" to swindle people, (no, instead he uses it to gather a following of people who feel sorry for him); and he whines and puffs up his chest when he's called to actually prove his "power".

By the way, this just occurred to me. Let's just say Jim does have a "power". If that is true, then he's NOT a magician. He's told everyone how he did the trick. He gave the secret. All he did was ask some guy what was in the box. Where's the trick? If Jim does have this "power", he, like Criss does, uses a stooge.... :D
 
Aug 6, 2008
10
0
look

Wait.....
So are you saying that being a magician is about
Heckling Fellow magicians(Jim),
lying to your audience (about your “Powers”),
Doing Camera tricks and passing them as magic,
Claiming “what you see is what you get” and Putting you life on it,
Fake building escape,(he got caught by FoxNews)
and dressing up like an emo?

i didnt say that Criss is the perfect example of a magician. what he claimes to have or do is on him. i'm simply aurguing the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way he pulls off his magic. as a magician, you should do things by any means nesisary as long as it's within moral boundarys.

ps. when i said "you should" i mean you should be able to. if someone wants to use camera tricks to do magic then thats fine, there is nothing wrong with that.
 
Jun 24, 2008
163
0
United States
the way i see it, the purpose of magic is to entertain. Is criss entertaining people? yes. Therefore it is ok. I personally do not like criss angel...but everyone has their own opinion.

~Nate
 
Jun 24, 2008
493
0
Harrisonburg, VA
After reading roughly 6 pages of this discussion I feel I'm ready to respond.

Steerpike, kudos to you as you know what you're talking about.

Criss Angel is a performer and a magician. He does lie about what he is doing but what magician at some point or another doesn't? "We'll take the ace and put it in the center." though it's not what we're actually doing, it's a misleading tale to further the hype of an effect.

Why is it that when it comes to something bigger all of a sudden it's wrong? Criss Angel may be arrogant, egotistical, and obnoxious (my opinions) but I still respect him as a performer and magician. He develops an effect, develops a method and performs it, whether he has to be misleading, use misdirection, use a stooge, camera trick or whatever doesn't really matter because it's part of the method developed and in the end magic is around to entertain people (specificlly laymen).

I don't see what the big issue is with him honestly, he does what magicians should be doing and that's entertaining the audience. He doesn't claim to have supernatural powers unlike Jim Cal. who was jumped all over by Criss Angel. I think Jim Cal provokes James Randy to debunk him just like Sylvia Brown would do with people as well. It's when they are actually caught that they begin to change their story around.

Again, these are my opinions as I don't expect anyone to agree with them.
 
Jul 15, 2008
167
1
Look.

A lot of you guys... as well as Criss Angel are all accusing Jim of something he hasn't done. When has he spoken to a dead relative of someone? When has he taken advantage of someone emotionally frail? Did he exploit anybody at all? Was the crowd taken advantage of?

I'm going to take Jim's side now, because your arguments are getting out of hand. Jim went on a show where almost all the contestants were claiming to be psychic or to have some sort of supernatural talent. Another reason for me changing my mind is that I wasn't aware of a certain episode of Mindfreak that I will talk about. Criss Angel has done worse than Jim, because he HAS taken advantage of people emotionally by recalling their dead ones. Here's a recap of the ending of that "seance" episode:

Contacting the Dead: Criss gathers all the rest of the people that haven’t left because they were freaked out. They gather in a circle and then hold hands. Criss contacts the spirit world. He then starts seeing dead loved ones and he tells the people things that he should never know about them. Criss is then possessed by an evil spirit. He is lifted up to the ceiling and he starts to talk as if he is possessed. All the other people run away. Criss is then carried to an ambulance and pretends to still be possessed.

Of course, at the end of the credits, he makes his little disclaimer: "Do you believe in ghosts? *whispering voice*: I don't"

Making this disclaimer doesn't change the fact that he took emotional advantage of the people around him by telling them he can see and speak with their relatives. Although he does tell them eventually that it was all a scam, this doesn't make him better than Jim. It's like saying Uri Geller wasn't bad because at some point in his career, he admitted to being fake.

Also, read this blog if you have the time:

http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/11/reaction-to-the-criss-angel-episode/

This person was on the show Mindfreak as a spiritual medium. One of the things she had to say was: "Doing the show gave me the confidence and courage to come out publicly about my abilities and begin doing readings professionally."

Wait wait... WHAT???? I thought Criss had a HUGE problem with these people! Why didn't he debunk HER on HIS OWN show, when he goes to debunk people on someone else's?

Also, for the people who keep referring to Sylvia Browne: Jim Callahan is NOT Sylvia Browne! stop accusing Jim of doing things that SHE did! He doesn't charge hundreds of dollars for 20 minute phone calls. He doesn't try or claim to have helped in police investigations. If you want to compare them, try to compare their differences, rather than just their similarities.

BTW, why are some of you still posting on this thread? I know at least two of you said you were done with this thread and would stop posting.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Making this disclaimer doesn't change the fact that he took emotional advantage of the people around him by telling them he can see and speak with their relatives.

It never occurred to you that I already saw this? Or did you think I was so stupid that I was immune to what you percieve to be cognitive dissonance?

In order for that footage to legally air, Criss had to get the people involved to sign a release form requiring full disclosure.

That means that after the taping of that routine, he would have to inform the people of his intent, his message, and his stance on the issue, and convince them to sign a release form granting him legal permission to use that tape on national television.

I'm sick to death of doing everyone else's homework for them.

Although he does tell them eventually that it was all a scam, this doesn't make him better than Jim.

Yes it does for the same reason that Derren Brown isn't in prison right now.

It's like saying Uri Geller wasn't bad because at some point in his career, he admitted to being fake.

Okay, three things.

First of all, you're assuming I would actually waste my time trying to tear Geller down. That's even less productive than talking to the rabble here.

Second, he admitted he was fake, but then resumed the act later when he decided he wanted more money and media attention.

Third, he's not claiming to talk to the dead!

This person was on the show Mindfreak as a spiritual medium. One of the things she had to say was: "Doing the show gave me the confidence and courage to come out publicly about my abilities and begin doing readings professionally."

First of all, her story reeks of embellishments. She says the whole thing was nothing like a real seance, and then talks about events as if they weren't all part of the plan. Typical psychic bull****.

Let's assume this woman genuinely believes she's psychic. Her interpretation of the events in that show are colored by perception. It's the same principle that allows religious nuts to see the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich.

Also, for the people who keep referring to Sylvia Browne: Jim Callahan is NOT Sylvia Browne! stop accusing Jim of doing things that SHE did!

They both genuinely claim to talk to dead people. As far as I'm concerned, they both should be locked up.

BTW, why are some of you still posting on this thread? I know at least two of you said you were done with this thread and would stop posting.

Because stupidity offends me.

I know this is futile, largely because you people hate Criss Angel so much that you'll never listen to reason and will continue to side with that waxy, over-acting moron Callahan. I know that most of you are immune to nuance and only interpret arguments in black and white. And I know that I'm the only person in this thread with any experience in seance and haunted magic, and as such you will all completely disregard my opinions because ignorance stubbornly refuses to defer to knowledge.

I guess I'm just a masochist.
 
Dec 22, 2007
567
1
Long Island, New York
Look.

A lot of you guys... as well as Criss Angel are all accusing Jim of something he hasn't done. When has he spoken to a dead relative of someone? When has he taken advantage of someone emotionally frail? Did he exploit anybody at all? Was the crowd taken advantage of?

I'm going to take Jim's side now, because your arguments are getting out of hand. Jim went on a show where almost all the contestants were claiming to be psychic or to have some sort of supernatural talent. Another reason for me changing my mind is that I wasn't aware of a certain episode of Mindfreak that I will talk about. Criss Angel has done worse than Jim, because he HAS taken advantage of people emotionally by recalling their dead ones. Here's a recap of the ending of that "seance" episode:

Contacting the Dead: Criss gathers all the rest of the people that haven’t left because they were freaked out. They gather in a circle and then hold hands. Criss contacts the spirit world. He then starts seeing dead loved ones and he tells the people things that he should never know about them. Criss is then possessed by an evil spirit. He is lifted up to the ceiling and he starts to talk as if he is possessed. All the other people run away. Criss is then carried to an ambulance and pretends to still be possessed.

Of course, at the end of the credits, he makes his little disclaimer: "Do you believe in ghosts? *whispering voice*: I don't"

Making this disclaimer doesn't change the fact that he took emotional advantage of the people around him by telling them he can see and speak with their relatives. Although he does tell them eventually that it was all a scam, this doesn't make him better than Jim. It's like saying Uri Geller wasn't bad because at some point in his career, he admitted to being fake.

Also, read this blog if you have the time:

http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/11/reaction-to-the-criss-angel-episode/

This person was on the show Mindfreak as a spiritual medium. One of the things she had to say was: "Doing the show gave me the confidence and courage to come out publicly about my abilities and begin doing readings professionally."

Wait wait... WHAT???? I thought Criss had a HUGE problem with these people! Why didn't he debunk HER on HIS OWN show, when he goes to debunk people on someone else's?

Also, for the people who keep referring to Sylvia Browne: Jim Callahan is NOT Sylvia Browne! stop accusing Jim of doing things that SHE did! He doesn't charge hundreds of dollars for 20 minute phone calls. He doesn't try or claim to have helped in police investigations. If you want to compare them, try to compare their differences, rather than just their similarities.

BTW, why are some of you still posting on this thread? I know at least two of you said you were done with this thread and would stop posting.
That was pretty funny. You and all your friends preach about the horrors of stooges and camera tricks and then when it's convenient for you, change your tone. So which is it, is he using the paid actors that you said he was using earlier or is he using real people in his effects?
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
I don't do haunted magic like Steerpike, he has the expertise there.

But I do mental magic, such as hypnosis, and I know how easy it is to decieve and exploit people.

Get this through your heads: even when you tell someone outright that you are peforming a trick, something anyone can do with a little research, practice and the right attitude, a lot of them STILL BELIEVE IT'S REAL.

Jim's wrong, which is exactly the same as Sylvia Brown's wrong or John Edwards' wrong is that they refuse - out and out refuse to come out and say:

"This is an act. It's a trick. I have no powers."

Criss - even with that little bit of "do you believe in ghosts? I don't." is enough. You also don't credit the fact that in inteviews, in every interview I've seen of Criss, he doesn't claim to have powers.

He does one haunted magic episode and he's a hypocrit, while Jim claims to have powers continuously, challenges people to prove him wrong and Jim's NOT a hypocrit?

You don't like Criss because he uses stooges and camera tricks, yet you believe that he didn't during the haunted magic episode?

Get over yourself.

And I was the other one who was going to drop out of this thread too, but, like Steerpike, I hate stupidity and I will not stand by when a real fraud, someone claiming to have "powers" that do not exist, is defended.

Being quiet while people defend a fraud and a cheat like that is when they win.

No Steerpike, you are not a masochist. There has to be some intelligent voices to speak the truth over the din of stupidity.

And again, anyone who is defending Jim. Answer this simple yes or no question:

Do you really honestly believe Jim Callahan can speak to a dead person?
 
Jul 15, 2008
167
1
That was pretty funny. You and all your friends preach about the horrors of stooges and camera tricks and then when it's convenient for you, change your tone. So which is it, is he using the paid actors that you said he was using earlier or is he using real people in his effects?

I said he uses paid actors, I never said he uses NOTHING BUT paid actors. I clearly said in a previous post that you can't trust Criss Angel anymore, because you don't know if the scene is scripted or not. Honestly, I don't know if the people in this episode are stooges, but I was thinking that the particular scene I descriped before does not look scripted.

-----------------------

As for you OwnerM, I see that you really don't understand some of my points. John Edwards and Sylvia both tried to exploit people by claiming to talk to dead relatives of people in their shows. I'm telling you that Jim Callahan only claims to speak to Raymond Hill, whom as far as I know (According to the video) doesn't have any living relatives.

And by the way, your two arguments:

~
"Get this through your heads: even when you tell someone outright that you are peforming a trick, something anyone can do with a little research, practice and the right attitude, a lot of them STILL BELIEVE IT'S REAL."

"Criss - even with that little bit of 'do you believe in ghosts? I don't.' is enough."
~

are pretty contradictory.

I would also appreciate it if you would not refer to my arguments as stupidity, as it implies that I am stupid. Let's try to keep this debate to a level where we don't have to stoop down live BNX.

One more thing: Why ask a question you already know the answer to?

-----------------------------

Steerpike:

It never occurred to you that I already saw this? Or did you think I was so stupid that I was immune to what you percieve to be cognitive dissonance?

In order for that footage to legally air, Criss had to get the people involved to sign a release form requiring full disclosure.

That means that after the taping of that routine, he would have to inform the people of his intent, his message, and his stance on the issue, and convince them to sign a release form granting him legal permission to use that tape on national television.

I'm sick to death of doing everyone else's homework for them.

If you had done our homework for us, you would have proof to backup this story. Let's see it.

Also, you've said multiple times that you are the only one here with experience in seance and haunted magic, yet you haven't said a word about the way YOU perform. Why is that? Is it because you yourself do what Jim does in his performances? I'm betting on that. Even if you don't anymore, I am certain that at some point in your career, you have claimed that what you were doing was genuine. That's the only explanation I find as to why you're so emotionally attached to this debate. Guilt. This is just speculation. If I am not correct, prove me wrong.
 
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Jun 24, 2008
493
0
Harrisonburg, VA
I wasn't a fan of Jim Callahan from the moment I saw him on the show. To see someone honestly claim they have 'powers' shocked and disgusted me. Criss Angel stepping forward and doing what he did was the highlight of that show for me, I especially liked it when he added Uri Geller in there as well.

Criss Angel did a Haunted Magic show where he had to get written permission from the spectators to do the show (which very well could have been paid actors because Criss Angel is also trying to entertain the audience at home).

Jim Callahan goes on stage during a competition (Live show) and claims to have the ability to contact the dead, not even a trick... The Ability to contact the dead. Do you think he had intentions on telling anyone that it was merely a trick? I find Jim Callahan quite laughable and between him and Criss who do you think is more ethical? I'd pick Criss, that's for sure.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
If you had done our homework for us, you would have proof to backup this story. Let's see it.

Are you kidding me? This is United States law!

I'm currently working on a documentary about greyhound rescue in Pittsburgh and am working closely with Steel City Greyhounds. I am required by law to get a release form from every person who appears on camera. If I don't do this, they could bring me to court over the unauthorized usage of their likeness for profit and sue me into the stone age.

If I am unable to get a release form from someone, then I am required by law to censor their face and alter their voice.

This isn't Soviet Russia, dude.

Also, you've said multiple times that you are the only one here with experience in seance and haunted magic, yet you haven't said a word about the way YOU perform. Why is that?

Because you never asked. You just assumed you already knew. Like this:

Is it because you yourself do what Jim does in his performances? I'm betting on that.

You have demonstrated an utter lack of knowledge in what I do, but have displayed an arrogance that you don't feel the need to ask me to explain anything.

When I asked you to explain your preconcieved notions of haunted magic, you gave me a list of stereotypes seldom seen outside of Hollywood... but you never asked me to go into any detail. You didn't ask me to confirm or deny, or to expound on the subject.

And why should I bother explaining a complex theatrical art to someone who doesn't care to know?

Even if you don't anymore, I am certain that at some point in your career, you have claimed that what you were doing was genuine.

Care to bet on that?

That's the only explanation I find as to why you're so emotionally attached to this debate. Guilt.

Then you don't have a very good imagination.

I would tell you why, but what reason do I have to believe you would listen, let alone believe me?
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
As for you OwnerM, I see that you really don't understand some of my points. John Edwards and Sylvia both tried to exploit people by claiming to talk to dead relatives of people in their shows. I'm telling you that Jim Callahan only claims to speak to Raymond Hill, whom as far as I know (According to the video) doesn't have any living relatives.

I think FadedTemp answered that question the best way:

Criss Angel did a Haunted Magic show where he had to get written permission from the spectators to do the show (which very well could have been paid actors because Criss Angel is also trying to entertain the audience at home).

Jim Callahan goes on stage during a competition (Live show) and claims to have the ability to contact the dead, not even a trick... The Ability to contact the dead. Do you think he had intentions on telling anyone that it was merely a trick? I find Jim Callahan quite laughable and between him and Criss who do you think is more ethical? I'd pick Criss, that's for sure.

...and how convient for Jim to find a dead guy who has no living relative contact him from the "beyond". Great way to make it harder to verify....

And by the way, your two arguments:

~
"Get this through your heads: even when you tell someone outright that you are peforming a trick, something anyone can do with a little research, practice and the right attitude, a lot of them STILL BELIEVE IT'S REAL."

"Criss - even with that little bit of 'do you believe in ghosts? I don't.' is enough."
~

are pretty contradictory.

How are they contradictory? Let me boil it down: People don't need much pushing to believe in something like a "paranormal power". Indeed, even if you tell them you don't have "paranormal powers", there are a few people who will still believe you do.

Part of all of our resposiblity is to do our best to tell people we don't have powers. Criss did that and continues to do that.

Jim never has. Admittingly, not everyone is going to believe the truth, but to openly lie and try to convince the people who are "on the fence" or to lead the guillible people (Note: gullible is NOT an insult here) by the nose, as Jim does, is reprehensable.

I would also appreciate it if you would not refer to my arguments as stupidity, as it implies that I am stupid. Let's try to keep this debate to a level where we don't have to stoop down live BNX.

I apologize for that. Please understand that I am calling the arguement stupid, not you. Be that as it may I will refrain from doing that and accept my apologies please.

One more thing: Why ask a question you already know the answer to?

1) I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking. 2) I would like to see if you know the answer and most importantly, 3) the implications of your answer while defending Jim.
 
Dec 22, 2007
567
1
Long Island, New York
I said he uses paid actors, I never said he uses NOTHING BUT paid actors. I clearly said in a previous post that you can't trust Criss Angel anymore, because you don't know if the scene is scripted or not. Honestly, I don't know if the people in this episode are stooges, but I was thinking that the particular scene I descriped before does not look scripted.
Then you shouldn't be talking like you do know for sure...

The people that will believe will always believe. If you tell the gullible people it's fake, they'll believe it's fake (which he did). You don't know anything about the people that were there. Who's getting taken advantage of?
 
Jul 15, 2008
167
1
Ok,

So it's pretty clear that the people here hate Jim a LOT more than I hate Criss.

So let's put Criss aside for a while, as I think I talked about Criss enough through the last 10 something pages of this thread. When I stopping talking about Jim a few pages ago, I seemed to get a lot of support and posts from people who dislike Angel, so this time, I'd like to draw some more of Jim's hate.

Now, I have yet to hear someone telling me exactly why they are bothered by Jim Callahan. I'm not bothered by him. On my watch, he hasn't hurt anybody. He doesn't affect my magic, as our material isn't very related. He claims to speak with dead people. Catholics ALL OVER the world claim to do the same by saying they speak to Jesus, Virgin Mary and saints through their prayers.

Now let's stack up a couple of the bad things about spiritual mediums:

- They exploit people by pretending to communicate w/ people's dead relatives for a price, by giving false information, false hope, etc.
- They give false whereabouts of missing people, criminals, victims, etc. Which inhibits Police investigations.
-...?

Feel free to expand this list when responding to the post.

Also try and find me some of the poor Jim Callahan victims, because the way I see it so far is: There are no victims! (except maybe Criss Angel... because apparently, he is VERY VERY sensitive to this kind of stuff)

----------------------------------------
Finally, in response to OwnerM:

1) I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking. 2) I would like to see if you know the answer and most importantly, 3) the implications of your answer while defending Jim.

Jim does not have supernatural powers. He made a stage performance, which, like Uri mentioned, has a flair of honesty on it. It makes you want to believe what he's doing is real. That is why I found it entertaining. I wasn't bothered one bit by the fact that he didn't admit to being fake, especially with the fact that most of the other contestants were doing the same.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Catholics ALL OVER the world claim to do the same by saying they speak to Jesus, Virgin Mary and saints through their prayers.

I'm actually anti-religion as well. I would expound on that, but I'd probably end up with a perma-ban when somebody starts screaming at me.

The danger posed by spirit mediums is not always direct. If people can be persuaded to believe in psychic phenomena, that makes them infinitely easier to con. For every person out there who genuinely believes that they have some sort of supernatural ability, there are 50 more who are natural born predators.

And if anything, a genuine belief in one's alleged abilities actually makes the "psychic" even more dangerous because their absolution and resolve is genuine instead of a con. They will go to greater lengths to prove their abilities and they will amass followers as well.

Callahan's actions undermine the safety of others from con artists. He tells people who are on the fence to make up their minds for themselves. That should tell you right then and there that the man is not a paranormal investigator in a true sense of someone exploring unexplainable phenomena. Because anyone with a true scientific interest in their investigations will tell you without hesitation that the truth is not democratic. We don't get to vote on which scientific theories we like best. We don't get to vote on whether our solar system is heliocentric or geocentric. We don't get to vote on whether gravity is a physical property of matter or whether it's caused by gnomes living in the center of the earth operating a giant magnet.

By telling people that they can make up their own minds, Callahan is giving gullible people the wrong idea and conditioning them to be fooled by creating the illusion of skepticism and empowerment in their minds.

With that mindset, they're the perfect prey for con artists all over the world because their sense of objectivity has been stifled.

Uri Geller poses less of a threat than Callahan in this regard because he's not offering people tempting secrets to the mysteries of life. He's bending phallic objects. I still think he's a dick, but the threat he poses is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage that people like Jim Callahan can create when he offers potential answers to the greatest mystery of all: death.
 
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