Unnecessary Patter = Useless & Irrelevant?

[BrianationX]

You probably don't agree but
You waste most of your time with MouthGarbage when you can just do the effect

Have any of you guys actually tried it
Don't be biased and think a little


I find it that doing a routine without patter gives me 89% more time for Magic
Usually is 89% MouthGarbage and 11% magic


And you don't have to be Mute
You can explain but without all the useless stupid MouthGarbage some people do

"Every card has a button.....,There is a Rocket card......,when I snap my fingers...,In casinos...,you know how some people cheat at poker....,the ace are... a long time ago....when the two cards.....one card is heavier...well I gave my cards to this drunk ...he shuffled...."

And Also the jokes,they got to go,they take away from the magic

Fortunately The future is looking good with guys like Dan And Dave,and even Daniel
Madison

"When I was younger a lot of the old school magicians would often talk SH** of what I was doing"
What these Old school magicians have to realize is that MouthGarbage is no longer necessary
The audience doesn't need any stories or false explanations
Just do the trick and get it over with

Everyone needs to watch this first and then post your opinions or hate towards me
You wont be disappointed

This is the usual work I do with cards and some of the most innovative and original magic around

By Forces Unseen,The magic is so powerful and Direct that you will take away from it if you confuse your audience with MouthGarbage(take note on the Triumph)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wxinoS4eI

This Magic is so Visual That you don't need to justify it with MouthGarbage
You must see this Video,Effects from Some of the best Magicians you probably don't know about
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tks9xf13Pqs

Same Here,The Magic is so good it speaks for itself
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JpvhdVPHO88

And Of course
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Smuj3bHbkz8

 

[DLeerium]

Patter DOES NOT = MouthGarbage!

End of debate..Close thread..

 

[Medifro]

I'm actually going to take another direction, and say that you simply misunderstood, and obviously went the wrong path because of this. Adding to the problem, many members here actually responded without this in mind, making things more and more complicated.

Patter is a part of any act, even saying "I'll place your card in the middle" is patter.

There are good performers and bad performers. My guess is that you've seen ALOT of bad performers, which led you to this conclusion. No suprise, as many magicians say that you have to have a theme, without an understanding why and the idea behind it. This leads to what I think "forced patter", where the patter is simply put there for the reason of being there, not for improving the actual effect.

See these people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch3o5tzYJpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hl9lK7WXXQ ( watch all his vids. Check his Rising Aces video, you'll know why I suggested it )

The whole thing is about what do you want the spectator to think they've seen. If you want them to watch a mental demostration, or sleight of hand, or anything. The bottom line that you entertained them ( by the magic, NOT comedy. Comedy is there as support. The entertaiment should be due the magical/astonishing experience ).

I suggest you pick up Darwin Ortiz's Strong Magic. Also watch videos of Derren Brown and Tommy Wonder. You'll find people who really know how to patter well. Tommy Wonder doesn't use a cheating theme or anything in his ACR routine, though its extremely good. On the other hand, Darwin Ortiz uses cheating theme in his ACR, and its extremely good too.

It all comes down to you and what you want them to think and see. This is an artistic choice you will have to make.

You're looking for answers and this makes you someone who really cares about what he's doing, you simply had a bad start when it comes to this. Good luck.

 

[Sleight_of_Hand]

Dude I swear this guy is Brian Tudor, Brian Tudor's MOM or Brian Tudor's SON/DAUGHTER.

 

[BrianationX]

I didn't watch all of his work but the rising aces was pretty good

I didn't hear no MouthGarbage in it and the cups and balls made sense
But in the Ortiz I kinda felt that he could remove the story and still have a great effect.

he wasted 1:20 talking about useless boring story
He could have started the trick at 1:21 and it would have been just as impressive

 

[frezzing aces]

i agree and disagree, patter adds to the effect, but saying invisible elephants come out of the magical forest and eat the deck making it vanish is a bit off...the best effect is believable.

 

[timsilva]

OK - I have what I believe is the best response to this message.

IT DEPENDS ON THE PERFORMER AND THE SPECTATOR(S)!

This is not a black and white debate. It simply depends on too many factors to say that one approach to magic is right or wrong. Some people like lots of patter, some don't. I personally try to keep it pretty light with the words, but it is also important to establish control of the situation by using your voice. I agree with your way of performing, but only because it is the way I do it.

As for the mouth garbage - Yes, there is a lot of it out there, but some people actually do better with it. Not me, but enough people to keep the style alive. I think magic is simply cooler for everyone involved with a more modern David Blaine approach, but that isn't for everyone.

If we were all the same then magicians would look to factory produced by the general public.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Stop Using The ****ing Word Mouthgarbage.

Now again you have totally missed the point on magic. You are an egomaniac who wants to pressure people to think like you do. The Friking world dosent spin around beacuse you drink water. If you think that your act is better when you dont talk so do it. Why do everyone else have to do it? Get over your puberty age. Geez how old are you? 7?
My god, have you done magic for like 2 weeks orsmth?

Okey if you were one of those in those videos then okay. But words give a trick so much more. The people will remember you as a magician who did tricks but what tricks`? But when you talk to people make them feel good and such they will remember you and give reccomendations to others to hire you.

And please stop making these idiotic posts.
Modes PLease close this thread this will produce more and more upset people.

Mikk Pärg

 

[JohnnyZ]

Haha.. So agreed with the topic maker. More and more people start talking crap like old school magicians, leaving the spectators in an amnesia of 10-15 sec where they might forget, what was the point of this story.
Now i'm talking about close up cardistry/card magic, stage work is entirely different thing.

The audience doesn't need any stories or false explanations

Qft.

 

[BrianationX]

Stop Using The ****ing Word Mouthgarbage.
how old are you? 7?
My god, have you done magic for like 2 weeks orsmth?

And please stop making these idiotic posts.
M

Mikk Pärg

Well im not persuading anyone to do anything
Im just telling them that MouthGarbage is useless
You obviously didn't read the whole thing

Im not 7
I'm much Older than you and have been doing Magic for approximately 10 years
when you were 5 yrs old I was already doing magic.

And the audience wont remember you for your words
are you a politician,comedian,singer
NO
they will remember you for the magic

 

[Medifro]

he wasted 1:20 talking about useless boring story
He could have started the trick at 1:21 and it would have been just as impressive

You brought up an EXCELLENT point, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Presentation is used to make the method practical. In other words, to cover up the bad points in the method. In that trick, Darwin Ortiz uses a sleight that MUST be covered by something, which in order to be logical, he MUST say the story.

The effect you saw in the video was pure luck. If the spectator named any other card, Darwin will continue the story, which is essential to make the method good ( call it a type of misdirection ). If there is no cover up, you'll just say "what the heck is this guy doing with the deck" ( which is no seen in the video, because that effect was luck ).

Cheers, and keep thinking.

 

[BrianationX]

You brought up an EXCELLENT point, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Presentation is used to make the method practical.

Cheers, and keep thinking.

Exactly but what about all those other magicians that waste the time giving out false explanations or Stories that don't advance the effect.

"Right here I have four jacks....These are called the crazy jacks,they are so crazy that they will always jump to the top,you know how some beans jump,you call them jumping beans...well these are jumping jacks.....These jacks jump because.....ect."


or


"you know how I did that..Well there is a magic button in the back of every ace ....If you push the magic button...."


or even when they are performing and in the middle they start talking about some irrelevant story that only pauses and confuses the audience


"wait...you have to wait a couple of seconds for the battery to charge..When the battery charges the card will fly from this hand and land over there in the cardboard box which is going to be the garage....You know how cars need power to operate..Cards cant move if they have no energy...if you rub your hands really fast and then put your hands near the cards they will magically get charged with your magical energy........do you feel the energy being transfered to the card....ect"

After two minutes the lady wont remember why she is doing that for
Or she will know that its all BS.

btw-I created that trick way back when was a kid
It has now evolved to a more realistic MouthGarbageLess Routine

 

[M_dalgashon]

Look, dude, it is visible that you are really trying to help and discuss ideas... But your presentation of your ideas is simply horrible, and you tend to agitate people rather than interest them in an academic discussion. Maybe you do your magic without talking, but on Theory11 forum topics I've seen you use a lot of, as you say, MouthGarbage.
Now, yes, a magician is not a comedian, singer, etc. and the performance should center around the magic itself... However, not every patter is MouthGarbage (and I really hate this word). Sometimes a good patter is really needed for misdirection (see WH performs Invisible Palm) or just plain fun (Derren Brown does this a lot).
I do a nice version of Daniel Garcia's Warning, in which I tell people I don't smoke, but that some people think I do because they initially mistake my deck of cards for a pack of cigarettes. Then I say that actually, a deck of cards can also be smoked, and I roll a card to a cigarette shape, put it in my mouth and "smoke" it, like Daniel Garcia does with his thumb on the Warning DVD.
So this is nice quick trick, with a nice patter, and it entertains people.

Indeed, the audience won't remember you for your words... But they WILL remember your PERFORMANCE, which is also about patter, but a lot more than that. Performance is about your gestures, your words, the air around you (if you're on a stage - music, setting, etc.), the clothes you're wearing - Everything will add up to your performance, and people will remember that. A good magician is a good performer.
So yeah, magicians can do it badly, and then it becomes "MouthGarbage". Go out, see professional magicians perform, and you will see that each and every one is also a brilliant performer, not just a brilliant magician.

 

[BrianationX]

I don't do my magic without talking
I do it without MouthGarbage

 

[Mat La Vore]

There are good guitar solos and bad guitar solos.

There are good writers and bad writers.

There are good dancers and bad dancers.

There are good actors and bad actors.

There is good patter and bad patter.

Not every guitar solo is unnecessary, not every writer doesn't know how to tell a story, not every actor ruins a good script, not every dancer needs to get off the dancefloor, and not all patter is "mouthgarbage."

And that's all I have to say.

Happy Magic.

 

[Medifro]

Exactly but what about all those other magicians that waste the time giving out false explanations or Stories that don't advance the effect.

In Darwin's case, it advances the effect ( again, that was luck ).

There are bad and good presentations. As you go on magic you'll see yourself.

Get Darwin Ortiz's Strong Magic. Good luck.

 

[Arthur Pitt]

How naive.

 

[dragon521]

I feel it's worth pointing out that Daniel Madison, maybe not to this extent, has aid he doesn't believe in using "patter" in the traditional sense and believes more in letting the effect speak for itself.

 

[BrianationX]

I feel it's worth pointing out that Daniel Madison, maybe not to this extent, has said that he doesn't believe in using "patter" in the traditional sense and believes more in letting the effect speak for itself.

Its called the Modern Way of Thinking

 

[Magic Man4293]

You know what I would love to see you tell Darren Brown to cut the mouth garbage from his act.


-Michael