Need help with making the pass invisible
- Thread starter S3al
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Make sure you are doing the move right. Ask yourself if your hands are where they are suppose to be. You should move your hand downwards as you are doing the invisible pass. Don't move your body foward as you are doing this because it might look suspicious.
All you have to do is practice. Look at yourself doing the invisible pass in the mirror.
-D. Tran
All you have to do is practice. Look at yourself doing the invisible pass in the mirror.
-D. Tran
The pass isn't necessary meant to be invisible when someone is burning your hands.
Try using misdirection.
Or use a cover up on your pass. Riffle passes, dribble passes etc etc.
Try using misdirection.
Or use a cover up on your pass. Riffle passes, dribble passes etc etc.
Try using some misdirection to distract the audience, or even turning your body and moving, so they aren't paying attention to your hand and the deck, but rather what your saying or where you moving to.
Cheers,
JTM
The easiest way to make your pass invisible is to have a good look at a couple of videos of people who perform the pass as you would like to. Then look at your own pass and spot the differences.
I'm presuming you're talking about the classic pass (or variants). Key points are to make sure the top of the deck is in the audience's sight line and they can't see underneath it (ie tilt your hands down), and make sure your left index finger and right little finger (or "pinky" if you're American) don't shoot out. Without seeing exactly what you're doing it's difficult to say exactly what you need to change, but those are the usual issues.
Plus, of course, misdirection.....even if you do have an "invisible" pass, then there's no real reason not to misdirect at the moment of performing a sleight.
I'm presuming you're talking about the classic pass (or variants). Key points are to make sure the top of the deck is in the audience's sight line and they can't see underneath it (ie tilt your hands down), and make sure your left index finger and right little finger (or "pinky" if you're American) don't shoot out. Without seeing exactly what you're doing it's difficult to say exactly what you need to change, but those are the usual issues.
Plus, of course, misdirection.....even if you do have an "invisible" pass, then there's no real reason not to misdirect at the moment of performing a sleight.
You might want to try a Herrmann pass they are alot easier to cover and are alot more versitile.
A couple of good ideas, for the Herrmann or the classic pass, would be to pick up "Richard Kaufman on The Pass" and "The Pass with Randy Wakeman". Kaufman's DVD teaches the pass and the basic variations and the Herrmann pass with the basic variations for it as well. Wakeman's DVD teaches a few variations on the classic pass and a ton of variations on the Herrmann.
Both are excellent DVD's.
A couple of good ideas, for the Herrmann or the classic pass, would be to pick up "Richard Kaufman on The Pass" and "The Pass with Randy Wakeman". Kaufman's DVD teaches the pass and the basic variations and the Herrmann pass with the basic variations for it as well. Wakeman's DVD teaches a few variations on the classic pass and a ton of variations on the Herrmann.
Both are excellent DVD's.
I was having trouble with this, too. I just start talking (not rambling) about some made up thing that has to do with the trick, and I watch the spectator's eyes, and as soon as they look up at me, BANG!!! I just passed all crazy up in here. I still need more practice, though.
I have a simply question to point out; if you have these problems, then why not work on misdirection instead of worrying about how it looks?
I think in these situations, magicians get too caught up in thinking how good or bad something looks. If you get down to the nitty gritty, it's really somewhat solved if you can perfectly time its execution or even misdirect. Think of it, you need not worry about how good or bad it is if you can get them to look at a certain place, or even have a great timing to perform the move during this moment.
With that in mind, the best plan of action is to work and find the best economy of motion that looks and feels most natural to you. Perhaps as the cards are placed from hand-to-hand is the moment when the pass is executed- or even time-misdirect for a while, after the cards have been replaced back into the pack; so they are not "burning" your hands, and even if they were they would not see anything because you are not doing anything. Surely these are pointers to consider when thinking in this field? "How do I find the right moment to perform the move?" in my opinion, should be asked instead of "How do I make the move invisible?" - because I'm sure that even if you had the worst pass in the world, yet you have the correct misdirection and/or timing to perform it, you will find it as much use than a pass that cannot be seen; or more.
Regards,
Jordan
i quite agree with Lapping here. after grappling with the two handed pass for many days i have come to the conclusion is that with proper misdirection one does not need to make it invisible. john carney said somewhere that most magicians don't use misdirection when using moves and that is their biggest mistake ( well what he said had the same gist).
more importantly ``invisible" is not the word one should go for in this context. i think ``indectectable" or ``suspicion free" are the adjectives one should look for.
for the magician who is a worker, who performs magic for non-magicians, making the pass invisible is a total waste of efforts. of course if one has a good pass then one can show off in the magic fraternity and gain a lot of respect but if you work for the laity don't even bother. the laity will be better impressed if u convince them that the card is really lost in the deck and that you have no ideas as to the whereabouts of the card. after that if u can find their card or whatever it will be extremely astounding for them. believe me i have tested it for real.
having said that i still keep on practicing the two handed pass for the same reason of gaining respect in the magic fraternity. after gaining some speed i found that i have hit the saturation and am not able to dramatically increase speed beyond a certain threshold. so now i m making to make it more smooth and am looking at my body language and gaze to better hide the tell when i do the pass. smoothness and fluidity are the key here.
there are two situations when one does need to make the pass ``invisible"
i really don't know what to do in such situations except avoid using the pass until i get better.
one extremely prudent way to learn the pass is to watch good executions of it.
mr. akira fujii takes my vote anyday.
more importantly ``invisible" is not the word one should go for in this context. i think ``indectectable" or ``suspicion free" are the adjectives one should look for.
for the magician who is a worker, who performs magic for non-magicians, making the pass invisible is a total waste of efforts. of course if one has a good pass then one can show off in the magic fraternity and gain a lot of respect but if you work for the laity don't even bother. the laity will be better impressed if u convince them that the card is really lost in the deck and that you have no ideas as to the whereabouts of the card. after that if u can find their card or whatever it will be extremely astounding for them. believe me i have tested it for real.
having said that i still keep on practicing the two handed pass for the same reason of gaining respect in the magic fraternity. after gaining some speed i found that i have hit the saturation and am not able to dramatically increase speed beyond a certain threshold. so now i m making to make it more smooth and am looking at my body language and gaze to better hide the tell when i do the pass. smoothness and fluidity are the key here.
there are two situations when one does need to make the pass ``invisible"
- color change
- certain ambitious card routine phases
i really don't know what to do in such situations except avoid using the pass until i get better.
one extremely prudent way to learn the pass is to watch good executions of it.
mr. akira fujii takes my vote anyday.
I think it comes down to practice. I would think about getting the video "On The Pass". It goes over a lot of subtleties to doing the pass. Which are very helpful. Misdirection does play a part in it, but you can't expect it to work on EVERYONE watching the performance, so practicing it to the point where it's 'invisible' is what you need to do. When i learned the pass i practiced it daily for hours on end for months before field testing it.
another big thing is you have to be able to do it without thinking about it. What i mean by that is doing it without having a pause in the patter. A lot of people will have a very slight pause when they do a slight that's supposed to be done. It might be subconscious, but it's still there. you have to make it smooth, not herky jerky or anything of the sort. Like what was said before, a form of cover up is nice, I.E. the riffle pass. I like doing the riffle pass if it blends in with my 'normal' card handling, like riffling it decently often and then it seems like you're just riffling it and the pass is done.
The pass takes a lot of practice to get down to the near 'invisible' phase, dont expect to get it to those standards early on in learning it and practicing it. It's a utility, learn different passes and different methods to control a card so you aren't doing the same movements every effect to get the same result. After a while people will catch on if you do the same thing over and over. A video would be very helpful in allowing us to check it out and tell you little quirks you can do to improve it.
another big thing is you have to be able to do it without thinking about it. What i mean by that is doing it without having a pause in the patter. A lot of people will have a very slight pause when they do a slight that's supposed to be done. It might be subconscious, but it's still there. you have to make it smooth, not herky jerky or anything of the sort. Like what was said before, a form of cover up is nice, I.E. the riffle pass. I like doing the riffle pass if it blends in with my 'normal' card handling, like riffling it decently often and then it seems like you're just riffling it and the pass is done.
The pass takes a lot of practice to get down to the near 'invisible' phase, dont expect to get it to those standards early on in learning it and practicing it. It's a utility, learn different passes and different methods to control a card so you aren't doing the same movements every effect to get the same result. After a while people will catch on if you do the same thing over and over. A video would be very helpful in allowing us to check it out and tell you little quirks you can do to improve it.
no pass is invisiable but there are many thigns you can do for cover. the pass you use and the cover incorperate will depend on the routine. that said for maximum invisablity i tend to use either a half jiggle pass, or a lePaul spread pass. iv also been toying with the midnight shift that is similar in the action to the spread pass.
Have you seen Mr. Akira do the pass? That's about as 'invisible' as you can get, you can't see anything... really. I've seen other professional magicians do their pass and i believe you can essentially make it invisible. The part of 'invisible' also depends on the target you're trying to make it 'invisible' to. To a seasoned magician it is extremely hard to make it 'invisible' since we know basically what you're doing in a nutshell so we can pick out things that show it. To the lay person it is possible to make it invisible without the use of misdirection.
I can walk up to someone and do a riffle pass right in front of them, over and over again and they won't see ANYTHING, the same with the classic and Hermann. But do it to Mr. Akira and he'll probably be able to pick it a part.
I can walk up to someone and do a riffle pass right in front of them, over and over again and they won't see ANYTHING, the same with the classic and Hermann. But do it to Mr. Akira and he'll probably be able to pick it a part.
As far as the pass goes, I feel it's a move that is better dont silent, then done invisibly. I've see quite a few guys who can make the pass fairly invisible, but it makes that damned clicking noise, which in my opinion, is worse then having it be visible. If it makes a noise, they know you did something. Instead, have it be silent, then misidrect to do the move.
The simplest and most basic misdirection for any move is, if they're burning your hands, you burn them as well...then... just look up. Look right at your spectators, as soon as they look at you, bam, it happens.
I dont think the pass is every completely invisible. Look at guys like Joshua Jay who calls the pass one of his favorite sleights that he has dedicated a lot of time to learn. No matter what, with a classic pass, there's that obvious motion to any magician. I've never seen a magician fool me with a pass unless there was misdiretion involved.
Also, even the pros who have amazing passes still misdirect. They rarely, if eveer just do a straight pass. Every motion is covered. Keep that in mind.
Always misdirect,
Lucas
The simplest and most basic misdirection for any move is, if they're burning your hands, you burn them as well...then... just look up. Look right at your spectators, as soon as they look at you, bam, it happens.
I dont think the pass is every completely invisible. Look at guys like Joshua Jay who calls the pass one of his favorite sleights that he has dedicated a lot of time to learn. No matter what, with a classic pass, there's that obvious motion to any magician. I've never seen a magician fool me with a pass unless there was misdiretion involved.
Also, even the pros who have amazing passes still misdirect. They rarely, if eveer just do a straight pass. Every motion is covered. Keep that in mind.
Always misdirect,
Lucas
I would have to agree with what has been said about misdirection. Your misdirection is part of your performance, and the performance is what makes the magic, not the mechanics.
The mechanics are neccessary, don't get me wrong, but just improving your pass is not going to be what truly makes it invisible. Your performance and your misdirection should draw the spectator into the magic to the point where you can have them look whereever you want with out them knowing it.
As far as improving the mechanics, make sure you practice for a smooth move, not a fast move. A smoothly executed pass will be less likely to create any noise from the cards rubbing together. The speed will come naturally as you make the motion smooth.
Also, as has been said, make sure to do the pass covered by a natural motion. There are many ways of covering the pass (I prefer the Invisible Pass) and they can all be easily incorporated to an effect because they look natural.
All the best in your practicing and performing!
~The Asian
The mechanics are neccessary, don't get me wrong, but just improving your pass is not going to be what truly makes it invisible. Your performance and your misdirection should draw the spectator into the magic to the point where you can have them look whereever you want with out them knowing it.
As far as improving the mechanics, make sure you practice for a smooth move, not a fast move. A smoothly executed pass will be less likely to create any noise from the cards rubbing together. The speed will come naturally as you make the motion smooth.
Also, as has been said, make sure to do the pass covered by a natural motion. There are many ways of covering the pass (I prefer the Invisible Pass) and they can all be easily incorporated to an effect because they look natural.
All the best in your practicing and performing!
~The Asian
First of all I'd like to disagree on the fact that there isn't any such thing as an invisible pass. They do exist..
Second of all, when it comes to the pass keep it mind it isn't only speed that you're after. You could do a sweet pass but a sudden movement gives away the pass just as much as seeing the move exposed. Make sure when practicing that you have a light touch with the cards..this helps to eliminate some of the friction that you find when the two packets are transposing. Let the good times roll!
l u k e
Second of all, when it comes to the pass keep it mind it isn't only speed that you're after. You could do a sweet pass but a sudden movement gives away the pass just as much as seeing the move exposed. Make sure when practicing that you have a light touch with the cards..this helps to eliminate some of the friction that you find when the two packets are transposing. Let the good times roll!
l u k e
The best piece of advice I can offer to start with is not to practice with a mirror. Mirrors give a distorted perspective on your pass practice. If you don't have a camera to practice with, find a way to angle your mirror downward on your hands. That will at least give you a more accurate spectator point of view. If that doesn't work, I'd go back and watch your source material again, looking for little thing that could be sticking points for you. If your source material happens to be Youtube, by a bloody pass video and learn the real thing. Not accusing you, but somebody once asked me for help with the pass because he'd learned it inadequately from a Youtube tutorial. Needless to say, I wasn't too thrilled with the idea of helping this individual.
A key component of making the misdirection plausible is to practice to where it's not a thought in your mind of doing it. 90% of communication is non-verbal. So any nonverbal sign you give a spectator that something is 'awry' they will be suspicious. In practicing the Pass to the point where it's 'invisible' you are also essentially practicing it to the point that the 'misdirection' won't have any non-verbal 'tells'. This also means that you have the pass down to the point where you dont have to think about it and you aren't self conscious about people 'seeing' it, or seeing through the misdirection.
There is another thread going about DL's and it kind of relates. The only difference is the misdirection and how 'paramount' it could be. With a Double Lift people are generally burning your hands so you practice it until you can do it without hesitation- every time. And with that there's no non-verbal 'tip-off' that anything is different. It should be the same with the Pass, misdrection won't work on EVERYONE in the crowd, some people will burn your hands the entire time, that's where the practice will come into play.
I'd say it's about 60:40 on practice:misdirection.
Excellent point about not using a mirror! I was, for a while extremely unconfident with my pass because I could see every motion in the mirror. If you have the capability, (And I realize that this isn't always feasible) I have foind that connecting a video camera to your computer and positioning it to where a spectator's eyes would be allows a much better perspective on how your pass looks.
To ZeroPhun31:
Just to clarify (and I'm not saying this is in any way what you meant), please don't think that I'm considering practice unimportant. Practice of the mechanics is absolutely essential in order to pull off the killer effects that we do for people. I would encourage anyone that the first thing to do to improve is practice, practice, and practice the mechanics.
However, in my thinking, the mechanics are not what the spectator is going to remember. In fact, if they do remember the mechanics, then you did something horribly wrong because that is what they're not supposed to see!
A spectator remembers how a magician performs a trick. They remember how they were drawn into the performance, and then blown away by the impossible. That is why I feel that the performance is so important. The presentation will not only make you memorable to the spectator, but will often serve to cover up sleights or even mistakes!
True, you won't be able to misdirect every spectator. We've all had spectators who refuse to look anywhere but your hands, and that is where the mechanics come back into play.
With that, I would personally disagree with your practice ratio, because it isn't something set in stone. A beginner will put much more than 60% into the mechanics and much less than 40% into the presentation, while a master magician will maybe have it completely the opposite, though the importance of practice is never diminished.
I enjoyed your post, and would love to trade more thoughts back and forth on this or any other topic!
~The Asian
Well don't start blending things together. Misdirection and presentation are two entirely different things in my book. Misdirection (for a pass) can be as much as looking the spectator in the eyes, which inevitably make people look up, and then doing the pass. The Presentation is the entire effect bundled as a whole 'adventure' of magic. There's a difference to me.
The spectator will remember the performance, you're right, but that ties to what i said above. The mechanics of different sleights in an effect are what enhances the performance and makes it smooth because you don't have to THINK about what you're doing, get what i mean? It just happens and you can focus on the presentation moreso then the effect.
At this point i think we are comparing two different things, misdirection (me) and presentation (you), and then also the mechanics (us)... so essentially an entire routine is what we are discussing, hehe.
Yeah, i like doing discussions, i dont perform much anymore, i go off and on. I need that 1 thing to get my interest peaked again and start practicing all my stuff. And then re-purchasing all the dvd's i used to have and relearning the routines i used to do... which will be a lot of fun (not really).
The spectator will remember the performance, you're right, but that ties to what i said above. The mechanics of different sleights in an effect are what enhances the performance and makes it smooth because you don't have to THINK about what you're doing, get what i mean? It just happens and you can focus on the presentation moreso then the effect.
At this point i think we are comparing two different things, misdirection (me) and presentation (you), and then also the mechanics (us)... so essentially an entire routine is what we are discussing, hehe.
Yeah, i like doing discussions, i dont perform much anymore, i go off and on. I need that 1 thing to get my interest peaked again and start practicing all my stuff. And then re-purchasing all the dvd's i used to have and relearning the routines i used to do... which will be a lot of fun (not really).
As mentioned, Invisible passes do exist... and as mentioned, Akira Fujii's pass is not possible to see even when burnt. It's really crazy.
I think naturalness makes the pass invisible. Then again, card magic has millions of other moves you can practise insetad of focusing entirely on the pass.
- harapan. magic!
I think naturalness makes the pass invisible. Then again, card magic has millions of other moves you can practise insetad of focusing entirely on the pass.
- harapan. magic!