G.O.A.T. Change Performance

Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
That's a fair assessment Medifro, thanks for both the criticism and support.

Richman: I would do neither, so the point is null. Technically however, if you were to force me to choose one, I would choose what I see as the more graceful and elegant motion of rubbing - and believe me I do not say this just to spite you or disprove you, I honestly prefer that motion. I much prefer the wave over the stereotypical Genie-esque click. As though clicking one's fingers in a magic routine did anything. However even this is beside the point. In a year, the majority of magicians who have learned G.O.A.T will have done so to be cool, because it's the "in" thing to do, just like Clipshift. They may not admit it or say so or think so but it will be true. Barely any will say "because if I could do real magic, I would click my fingers instead of shaking/rubbing/waving/ordering the card." Again, the issue, my issue, is in the attitude. What the audience see is the change, that is what they will remember. Not one could tell you whether you clicked or waved, and not one would tell you it made any difference. And in my opinion both changes are just as visual. The only difference is the reason magicians want to learn G.O.A.T over Erdnase, which is the wrong type of reason.
 
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Jul 30, 2008
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Whether it is going to be the next clipshift is secondary. I think it is the whole dan and dave influence. For example, there were countless of threads asking whats the 4th vanish in the Queens effect by the bucks. This isnt a negative thing either. After all, they have been cited as the new generation of magic and they are the ones who might greatly advance the art. Let others choose what magic they want.

Back on topic, it was an excellent performance as always.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Why compare the GOAT change with clipshift?

After all, the goat change is a color change, and clipshift is an amazing utility move...(someone tell me if I'm wrong)

They're being compared not because of their usefulness but because many people seem desperate to learn it just because they think it's the cool thing to do and because Dan and Dave do it. The Clip Shift also happened to be a brilliant move that has many applications, in my opinion the GOAT change doesn't but nobody thinks about this when deciding if they want to learn it.

I love the Clip Shift but i'm really not that interested in the GOAT change, I already know the Impulse change which is very similar and i've found very few situations where it's useful.
 
They're being compared not because of their usefulness but because many people seem desperate to learn it just because they think it's the cool thing to do and because Dan and Dave do it. The Clip Shift also happened to be a brilliant move that has many applications, in my opinion the GOAT change doesn't but nobody thinks about this when deciding if they want to learn it.

I love the Clip Shift but i'm really not that interested in the GOAT change, I already know the Impulse change which is very similar and i've found very few situations where it's useful.

Ah ok. =D

I love the clipshift, can't wait until i can do it silently and quickly!
 
May 8, 2008
360
0
England
Yeah there will be a lot of videos of people trying to persuade others, who don't really care, that they are good, or cool. That's just how it goes though. The point is though it's a change that looks good (imo) and if you can fit it in to your magic, and want to then cool.

With relation to the erdnase/goat change thing, it depends how you do it, situation and spectator. The other day I did an Erdnase to my friend, he said that there was no-way with that little movement I could have done anything. Now I'm not saying my change is amazing, in fact, it's far from it, but any change done well with good performance and the right timing can work for you. I love the Ego change but considering how mine looks it is more practical to stick to the erdnase, especially as reactions, for me, are generally the same.

We could also get into the whole natural movement thing... Maybe...

Also I never said, very well done on the video :)

-S
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Ah, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Erdnase. I didn't really intend a debate to start about Erdnase/G.O.A.T, that's certainly besides the point and I take responsibility for that. Probably stems from my general disgust of bad Erdnase changes...
 
May 8, 2008
360
0
England
Ah, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Erdnase. I didn't really intend a debate to start about Erdnase/G.O.A.T, that's certainly besides the point and I take responsibility for that. Probably stems from my general disgust of bad Erdnase changes...

Well I didn't mean to start playing them off against each other. What I mean is that a lot of people will learn this change because it's the next 'cool' thing that proves you are good. I'm trying to say that if you find it practical and have a use for it, within your everyday magic, then great. If you'd rather erdnase, ego, shapeshifter, duck... or whatever change then great. Same effect to the spectator. If people learn it and apply it good, if they learn it because it's the 'next clipshift' then that's the wrong reason. Sorry if this came across as a bit argumentative, it wasn't meant to be. I'm just going to go back to saying it looks cool, I hope it's practical and I can find a use for it :)

We should totally start a debate about natural movenent and actions in card magic... :)

And yeah bad erdnase changes suck :p
Like mine

-S
 
Dec 9, 2008
91
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Hi there,
Brilliant video, good change, and I'm very sorry for your loss.

Relating to the discussion, I will agree that this will become the new clipshift in that sense, which is why I'm annoyed it's being released because I came up with my own method before discovering the G.O.A.T., Once in a Lifetime, Carolina changes, so now, any performance of mine will seem like another chump who learns this off "andthensome" (Not you Matt, as you figured it out independently, I assume), and I don't know about you, but that's not what I want any video of mine to become.

Still, great video, and my deepest condolences to you and your family,
Tom Field
 
Hi there,
Brilliant video, good change, and I'm very sorry for your loss.

Relating to the discussion, I will agree that this will become the new clipshift in that sense, which is why I'm annoyed it's being released because I came up with my own method before discovering the G.O.A.T., Once in a Lifetime, Carolina changes, so now, any performance of mine will seem like another chump who learns this off "andthensome" (Not you Matt, as you figured it out independently, I assume), and I don't know about you, but that's not what I want any video of mine to become.

Still, great video, and my deepest condolences to you and your family,
Tom Field

No, I didn't figure it out independently. And honestly, if you're trying to learn from a performance, you might as well shoot your hands off. It's unethical, and for the most part, you'll develop a bad habit.


Thanks everyone for the kind words!
 
Oct 28, 2007
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No, I didn't figure it out independently. And honestly, if you're trying to learn from a performance, you might as well shoot your hands off. It's unethical, and for the most part, you'll develop a bad habit.


Thanks everyone for the kind words!

i don't see how it is unethical, it seems pretty straight forward and the more i watch it the more it seems to be like the same method of carolina click change.
don't quote me on that i don't think it is like the click change method wise.

ps. the carolina click change sucks
 
i don't see how it is unethical, it seems pretty straight forward and the more i watch it the more it seems to be like the same method of carolina click change.
don't quote me on that i don't think it is like the click change method wise.

ps. the carolina click change sucks

I don't know too much about the CCC change. But the method is completely different from what I remember.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
It's not the same method as the Carolina Click Change.

It's considered unethical because essentially you're taking something of the creator's work, which a) is going to be marketted, i.e. you may as well DL it illegally because you're not paying for it, b) is not marketted at the moment, i.e. you disrespect the creator's wishes and decision not to release it at this point, and c) it's disrespectful to magic in general as an art to be learning something half-assed (because that's all you're gonna get from learning from a performance video). Basically, you disrespect the creator in a lot of ways though - essentially ripping off his material for yourself without asking.
 
Oct 28, 2007
875
0
30
It's not the same method as the Carolina Click Change.

It's considered unethical because essentially you're taking something of the creator's work, which a) is going to be marketted, i.e. you may as well DL it illegally because you're not paying for it, b) is not marketted at the moment, i.e. you disrespect the creator's wishes and decision not to release it at this point, and c) it's disrespectful to magic in general as an art to be learning something half-assed (because that's all you're gonna get from learning from a performance video). Basically, you disrespect the creator in a lot of ways though - essentially ripping off his material for yourself without asking.

i thought he was saying it is unethical to try and learn it because it is such a far fetched method that it would be impossible to learn fromt he preformance.

but ok
 
Sep 7, 2008
608
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Great performance!

The change will be the next "new" thing. I went to Tannen's Magic Camp last summer and everyone was performing the Clipshift. I don't own the DVD, nor do I want it, but it was the "big thing." A lot of the counselors and some campers, like me, thought the move was pointless. Next summer, everyone will be doing this if it's released. I guarantee it. The main thing to remember is that your magic doesn't have to be flashy to be good. I went into the close-up competition at camp against some great guys, one who was very interested in those types of moves. I went in doing classic card/coin stuff, and ended up winning. It's not about the moves you do, but the way you present it. The audience won't remember how you changed the card, but rather the card changed.

Jeff
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
That's another debate but he has a very valid point. For example: What is a Clipshift good for? Many would say a control. Who, with any sort of decent knowledge of card magic, would use the Clipshift as a control? For most situations, the more experienced card men will tell you that there are many more suitable controls which are better. No use being an average move for 10 different situations if you can learn 10 excellent moves for every different situation. But as I said - that's another use altogether.

I think you're right JP, iwthout having been to Tannen's, but I'm absolutely not surprised. I think though, to alter one of your sentences a little:

Your magic doesn't have to be flashy to be good.

This is very true, but I think in this particular circumstance:

"Your magic doesn't have to impress magicians, or be the latest and most popular, to be good."

In fact I'd go so far as to say that being different is what will distinguish you. All of the masters of the art have been different in some way.
 
Nov 10, 2007
1,706
1
Great Job on the change. Everytime I see you perform I feel like I have to delete my videos off youtube and vimeo because your videos make me look like crap.
Sorry about your Grandfather.
 
May 8, 2008
360
0
England
It's not about the moves you do, but the way you present it.

So, so right.

I think you're right JP, without having been to Tannen's, but I'm absolutely not surprised. I think though, to alter one of your sentences a little:

This is very true, but I think in this particular circumstance:

"Your magic doesn't have to impress magicians, or be the latest and most popular, to be good."

In fact I'd go so far as to say that being different is what will distinguish you. All of the masters of the art have been different in some way.

The bit in bold shows what I believe to be a very good understanding of magic. I have seen your videos praetoritevong but I would love to see you actually perform some day. Wise words. ****, now I sound like an arse kisser.
 
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