March 2009 :: What Drives You?
- Thread starter TomIsaacson
- Start date
Well there's no reason to think negitivly. See, most people would try to hide their problems under the rug, but most of the time, I and others try to take the negitive and think of the positive from the negitive, not hiding it, but merely transforming it. I mean, with that quote, "Give me a reason to think positive" it's almost like your striving to be negitive. You can admit a flaw nicely and then try to fix it, but telling everyone off is not a good method of fixing that, if anything it's making things worse, in which case, your as much to blame for this flaw as the rest of us.
This topic, I think, is good, sure it's not the best but I mean, just because it isn't the best disscussion doesn't mean you should throw it out the window. Sometimes it's good to step back and just question yourself for what you stand for and why you do what you do. Sometimes thinking about that lets you realize things that you never thought about and can inspire you to create or do something creative.
If questioning things is good, then why are you complaining about me questioning the value of this thread?
And I refuse to apologize for having some standards as to what makes a discussion advanced. Cerca Trova is supposed to be advanced discussion topics. How is this advanced, and how is it discussion?
It is not advanced, because it's not asking for anything other than an ego dump.
It is not discussion, because everyone is posting the same generic, cookie cutter answers and then high fiving each other for echoing one another's sentiments, although I hesitate to call them that.
I never said it had to be the best. Just good. And since there is no chance of actual discussion, no it is not a good topic. Of all the great suggestions for topics that people have offered up, all of them get passed by in favor of this one. There is nothing to be positive about there. I am not going to go quietly into the night of mediocrity just because you prefer complacency to controversy. Just because you're too afraid to rock the boat.
And I refuse to apologize for having some standards as to what makes a discussion advanced. Cerca Trova is supposed to be advanced discussion topics. How is this advanced, and how is it discussion?
It is not advanced, because it's not asking for anything other than an ego dump.
It is not discussion, because everyone is posting the same generic, cookie cutter answers and then high fiving each other for echoing one another's sentiments, although I hesitate to call them that.
I never said it had to be the best. Just good. And since there is no chance of actual discussion, no it is not a good topic. Of all the great suggestions for topics that people have offered up, all of them get passed by in favor of this one. There is nothing to be positive about there. I am not going to go quietly into the night of mediocrity just because you prefer complacency to controversy. Just because you're too afraid to rock the boat.
James - I would agree with you if there were people critically looking at what they are doing magic for...or what drives them to keep going.
Have you read some of the answers:
What drives you in magic?
One word...SMILES? This kid is either related to Elton John or is adding fluff to the thread. Does he really wake up day and say with a lisp..."Time to get my cards...becuase HELLOOOO, I am searching for smiles"! (Sorry to point you out, but that answer highlights the kind of fluff filled response - if you really wake up everyday and do magic for smiles, SMILES...well, go or work at McDonalds kid - you give em there for free)
I see this more of a chance for this fluff answers to fill the thread and allow us to pat ourselves on the back for how great we are for doing magic. Seriously?
It is good to stand back and take a look and what you stand for - but if the members posting really are driven to learn magic by what was shared here...let me show you the problem.
Perhaps it is so frustrating because the thread highlights some of the issues you all have with your magic.
If reactions drive you - then you are only being driven by ONE of the most shallow forms of feedback in magic. A reaction is just an instant emotional response - often people will react, only to NOT be fooled later after thinking it through. I prefer to fool my audiences long term - not just be a diversion while I am there.
The reason Steerpike challenges you guys is that the forum is meant for discussion that stimulates your magic. Sure, the dude is sharp tongued and doesn't hold back...but it is frustrating to see SO many respond to "What drives you" with answers that seemed to come from a promo sheet, and SO few responses on topics where you could learn and grow by asking questions or taking part.
In all honesty, all our answers should be our goals - our goals in magic drive us. However, if this thread is a list of your goals in magic...I would ask - shoot higher.
Lastly, it is not about being negative or postiive - it is about having strong discussions with others that love magic. Threads like - what is your best reaction or favourite deck are fillers - as we can all imput on them, but how is wasting your time writing on that useful to your magic? We all know we have had good reactions, we all know there are a bunch of decks out there...yet, FEW of you know what an INTRANSIT ACTION is? Few of you understand what it takes to make your presentations meaningful, rather than instructional.
WARNING*
When this forum first started, we have many experienced voices trying to help the youth - but the youth didn't want to accept the help - they argue and bash while they force their way down a path provided by the internet...where experienced magicians have seen those magicians end up going down empty paths, and come back to use years later wondering where it went wrong and why they can't reach their goals.
Steerpike is at wits end - you will eventually lose him - perhaps all the experienced magicians will stop trying to help - then good luck - it will be a forum full of "What decks do you own" and "What is your favourite Dan and Dave trick" - and the blind will lead the blind.
I think you should thank Steerpike - because I never learnt anything from someone that agreed with me - so, if you are looking for a YES boy, or someone that is more "POSITIVE" then it fears me to see how you handle feedback from your crowds...do you brush it off? Treat them like hecklers?
I would hope you would make changes - adapt - grow - progress - all things Steerpike wants you to do...and sadly, you should want that for yourself.
SO what drives me - PROGRESSION.
Have you read some of the answers:
What drives you in magic?
One word...SMILES? This kid is either related to Elton John or is adding fluff to the thread. Does he really wake up day and say with a lisp..."Time to get my cards...becuase HELLOOOO, I am searching for smiles"! (Sorry to point you out, but that answer highlights the kind of fluff filled response - if you really wake up everyday and do magic for smiles, SMILES...well, go or work at McDonalds kid - you give em there for free)
I see this more of a chance for this fluff answers to fill the thread and allow us to pat ourselves on the back for how great we are for doing magic. Seriously?
It is good to stand back and take a look and what you stand for - but if the members posting really are driven to learn magic by what was shared here...let me show you the problem.
Perhaps it is so frustrating because the thread highlights some of the issues you all have with your magic.
If reactions drive you - then you are only being driven by ONE of the most shallow forms of feedback in magic. A reaction is just an instant emotional response - often people will react, only to NOT be fooled later after thinking it through. I prefer to fool my audiences long term - not just be a diversion while I am there.
The reason Steerpike challenges you guys is that the forum is meant for discussion that stimulates your magic. Sure, the dude is sharp tongued and doesn't hold back...but it is frustrating to see SO many respond to "What drives you" with answers that seemed to come from a promo sheet, and SO few responses on topics where you could learn and grow by asking questions or taking part.
In all honesty, all our answers should be our goals - our goals in magic drive us. However, if this thread is a list of your goals in magic...I would ask - shoot higher.
Lastly, it is not about being negative or postiive - it is about having strong discussions with others that love magic. Threads like - what is your best reaction or favourite deck are fillers - as we can all imput on them, but how is wasting your time writing on that useful to your magic? We all know we have had good reactions, we all know there are a bunch of decks out there...yet, FEW of you know what an INTRANSIT ACTION is? Few of you understand what it takes to make your presentations meaningful, rather than instructional.
WARNING*
When this forum first started, we have many experienced voices trying to help the youth - but the youth didn't want to accept the help - they argue and bash while they force their way down a path provided by the internet...where experienced magicians have seen those magicians end up going down empty paths, and come back to use years later wondering where it went wrong and why they can't reach their goals.
Steerpike is at wits end - you will eventually lose him - perhaps all the experienced magicians will stop trying to help - then good luck - it will be a forum full of "What decks do you own" and "What is your favourite Dan and Dave trick" - and the blind will lead the blind.
I think you should thank Steerpike - because I never learnt anything from someone that agreed with me - so, if you are looking for a YES boy, or someone that is more "POSITIVE" then it fears me to see how you handle feedback from your crowds...do you brush it off? Treat them like hecklers?
I would hope you would make changes - adapt - grow - progress - all things Steerpike wants you to do...and sadly, you should want that for yourself.
SO what drives me - PROGRESSION.
It is true that a lot of the "What drives you?" reasons are quite redundant and quite simple to the point where it might not matter and seem even a little stupid but isn't it quite similar as performing a quite simple effect compared to a highly advanced trick. Sometimes the simpler effects get better reactions. Just like this, sometimes the simplier reasons for "What drives you?" can go a long way.
I do agree with you on the whole, "adapt - grow - progress" things.
I'm not disagreeing about steerpike about trying to get serious discussions and trying to advance magic but the way he's trying to do it is not, I think, the best method to try to advance. Merely just discuss the faults not push people down because of their faults.
See me after class. And no it isn't.
Did you ever stop to consider why those so-called simple tricks work so well?
It's the only method I have left, and it's the only method the masses actually pay attention to.
Again, I would like to note that it is not the question that gives a topic depth, it is the way it is answered. If you bring something interesting to the table for what is admittedly a rather mundane question, it will become an interesting topic. Dismissing the whole thing as stupid is just shooting yourself in the foot. Or maybe you're just lazy.
Fine talk considering you answered with the same homogeneous fluff as everyone else.
If you ask for an ego dump of cretinous circle-jerking, that's exactly what you get.
And don't accuse me of laziness. I've tried to raise the bar. And you notice that almost every thread I do that in dies shortly afterward because only Morgician and maybe one or two of my friends take the higher standard and try to continue with it. Everyone else stops posting. Either that, or our comments go unnoticed in favor of more people reading the first post only, throwing in a paragraph of generic drivel, and then never checking back on the thread again.
So maybe the problem isn't with me, it's with people like you who demand better content but don't do anything with it when we give it to you. And with the people who just don't have anything intelligent to say because they can't be bothered to think.
If you're looking for that Standard, then surely you're not going to find that in Theory 11. I was expecting the same when T11 got released.. But moreso, the growing infestation of "What decks do you have?" and "OMG propagandas are outta stock :< " Threads are clearly not of any importance as such discussing Plots, improvements, etc.
Quoted for the truth. (And i hate it when people say that. But this one deserves it.)
Quoted for the truth. (And i hate it when people say that. But this one deserves it.)
So you'd rather take the path that children take(not that I'm calling you one), you'd rather have people dislike you as long as you get the attention, rather than acting right. You are an intelligent person, yet you do not take an intelligent action.
Yes you are.
Were you listening at all? The only way I can get you rabble to pay attention for even a nanosecond is to rock the boat. If I'm nice and smiling through my teeth, pretending that everything is all sunshine and puppies here, you lot ignore it in favor of crying your eyes out over Daniel Madison's site being down due to bandwidth problems.
It's not about attention. It's about the fact that doing things your way is utterly futile. I would rather be hated than be useless.
ok. well since you'd rather be hated, let us close that argument so we don't have to clutter up this thread, which is getting a little off topic.
So now the question is, if you don't like the community hear, why do you continue to come? It's like free willingly watching a movie you hate.
Because I stubbornly refuse to submit to mediocrity. My greatest character flaw is without a doubt the fact that I just don't know when to quit.
I'm getting through to some people. I can make a difference to at least those who have a future in magic. But I'm never going to affect that change if I do things your way.
But that's just it isn't it? You get through to some people doing it your way. Most people are paying attention to you now and lots hate you, you are getting some through to you. The same can be said of my way, lots of people may ignore you, but you will get through to some people. The difference is, is that you don't have to live your life with people hating you.
Actually, in my response, I was trying to push the discussion towards discussion of the idea of perfection and if it is ever possible to achieve a level of proficiency that is beyond what normal practice can achieve. So if you think that's just fluff, then I've got nothing to say to you.
But again, all you're doing is whining about how you'd do things and not actually contributing to this topic. I urge you, make it interesting. We both know you have that capacity.