YouTube is the greatest thing to happen to magic... - Two Essays

Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Hi Baller08 - perhaps your reading skills are a bit off when quoting me partially – rather than taking the entire text into consideration – you only focused on the end, as this was a further explanation of Ortiz concept of having value in your show. Perhaps you should research this approach. However, I DO use it as a business model to great success...oh; there I go again, sorry.

I am not sure why my success bothers you so much, or how discussing how I approach my business threatens you to the point of making slanderous remarks, but it is nice to see that you consistently show your hypocritical self in trying to slay the big bad "Morgician" with your sharpen tongue...that only seems to cut yourself in the process.

You should know that, If you are as poor a read at how entertained your audience is by your efforts in magic, as you are with what kind of person I am beyond this forum, it is no wonder you are so angry about how much people enjoy my magic – as it would be for certain that your magic is not being received well, nor is your ability to show human decency.

Look Baller08 – if the truth of my life bothers you so much, it means that yours is not going very well – and that bothers me. Please let me know what I can do to make your life happier. Would you like some free magic lessons, perhaps I can help you. All that frustration you show in your words, when all I am sharing experience in magic, just shows a very unhappy person you are inside. You only know how to spit venom at someone that is taking part in an adult conversation, and you consistently take temper tantrums mudding up the threads. What kind of issues are you facing? Do you have a bad relationship with your parents? Did your girlfriend dump you for someone else? PM me Mr. Johnson, I would love to make your life better, as your anger isn’t at me. Why would it be, especially in this thread? Do you really believe exposure is a good thing? Am I the bad guy for wanting magicians to live up to the magician’s code – that was only put in place to make magic better. Do you think it would make magic better if all the secrets in magic were at everyone’s fingertips – so everyone could learn magic easily and free. Why go to school? Why not just download your degree from a web site? There is no need to invest in your education. Seriously though JJ, why the anger – what are you projecting on me that you are not happy with. What happened today that made you lash out at me?

Why don't you come visit me in person and see how memorable I am Baller08 - I would love to sit down with you and show you my magic...my life...the things I do in my life that make myself and the people around me happy. You can be one of those people Baller08 – we could watch the NBA playoffs together, have a few beers, and you can see what a normal guy I am – and then we could show our effects to one another and you would understand what I am about. If you still feel the same way after knowing me – feel free to bash me – but as for now, I would hope you would try to be more grown up and discuss the issue at hand, rather than your delusions of my life, although, I am flattered.

Perhaps the reason that I feel I have to qualify myself constantly is because I DO have experience beyond you - but sadly - the youth are just as easily guided by your lacklustre understanding of our craft, as they are by my real world experience. I also know that they will easily dismiss information for the same reason, so if they know it comes from a creditable source - they may take the time to read it and perhaps try it to see if it works for them.

So, here is the thing – if you don’t like my approach in business – please share with us yours. It is obviously very modest and effective, or you wouldn’t be upset at my approach. I know you aren’t the “qualifying” type of guy, but this forum is about sharing experience to help others grow – so....if you aren’t doing that, what are you doing here?
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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Yes...there you go again. I didn't bother reading past the first few sentences because I'm sure its more of the same long winded bragging that's based only in your head. You're not big or bad...just a little sad.

I will try again - my last post was me reaching my hand out to help you from drowing in the flood of anger you like to be in. It is the truly sad thing. Our lives are different - it really bothers me that my great experiences in magic make lash out. I am sad...sad that you feel threatened by me - enough to continually embarass yourself in this forum. It is okay though...nobody really knows who you are...then again, maybe it hurts because nobody cares.

People talk about theories all the time without buffing themselves up. But you feel the need to either name drop or exaggerate on your "life". That is a clear indication of high insecurity. I'm certain you cannot make a post without a reference to yourself..

Hmm, you have probably not read anything by Jami Ian Swiss or Darwin Ortiz then...however, I will tell you this. Nothing I say is an exaggeration, as much as you think it is, and really - I don't have to prove it to you, because I feel doing that would just anger you more. My experieences are my experiences...I have made a choice to have positive moments happen with magic and life - I am sorry you choose the opposite.

I'm merely pointing out how transparent you are. Your "teachings" are not based on anything but book knowledge, which is great, I think that's useful. But in the real world you're the weird guy who can do tricks and I think you're not an authority on what good performance is. If we can smell your insecurities here, then in real life it must really reek. And no one as insecure as you can possibly be an engaging performer, you would just come off very off putting to "the enemy".

Hmm, everything in this sentence is conjecture and dellusional. None of it is accurate - you are really just hoping this is true. Haha, I think it is funny that you think I have insecurities...because, who doesn't. I HAVE INSECURITIES!! If you don't, then you should - because it makes you human. However, from how you speak to people, I question if you understand what that consists of. I also wonder if you would be so brave if we were to meet, which you avoid constantly. OH - and FYI - that ENEMY quote that you seem to be attached to was an analogy that David Williamson discussed with us...so, I guess you can talk to him about how much he hates his audiences because he used the analogy of us vs them in the metaphoric "war" of those that want to fool, and those that don't want to be fooled. Honestly Baller08 - do you have nothing better to do?

The reason I'm pointing this out is because you're a hypocrite. You pretend to know about connecting with the audience but you're the worst kind of magician there is....you thnk of your audience as people to fool so you feel better about yourself, hence why you refer to them as "the enemy". You are the kind of magician that does magic AT people and not for people.

Perhaps I should point out my observations. You are reaching your near 100th post, and in all your topics you have said NOTHING useful to upcoming magicians. You have soft knowledge, and your jealously about who I am angers you because of your narcissistic personality. I know that mom and dad must be hard on you...and you need to vent somewhere. You talk the same way to people no your NBA chat sites, so I know that it is a personality disorder...and I take nothing personally...which knowing you makes you more angry - because you thrive off of being that guy. You are so full of anger...I bet you cry sometimes when you are by yourself, because you are so frustrated with your life. You sir, are a bully...but worse, a coward, because you bully behind your desk. You say nothing in your posts - you are exactly the kind of member that scares off people that want to help.

I know who I am, and so do many of the members - and I don't really want to play your game. I think in this forum it is important to discuss where your ideas came from. Because behind your computer, you can spout all the opinions you want...as every member has opinions. However, I think stating how you formed these opinions is important. Once I was in a group that was discussing the impact of watch steals - this guy started to rant about how great they were, and how they can be done magically - he completely derailed the conversation...and it turned out he had never even DONE a watch steal - not once. So for all his opinion...he had NO knowledge of the subject, no practical understanding - but he so badly wanted to be heard, he just ranted. Hmm, maybe you were that guy?
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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I am not concerned on gaining credibility - but it is funny that you speak of "looking things up", as you hide behind a desk.

I am not angry Baller08 - although I am using your email address to send as much gay porn junk mail as I can...hey, what can I say, it makes me feel better.

Just because you can't look something up, doesn't mean it is not the truth - you have trust issues man, I have nothing to gain by proving myself - but I would think what I offer in my posts is enough proof. If you can tell that by my words - then I have nothint to share with you - now please - stop taking the conversation away from how great I am....you are not the only type A here.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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Have a sense of humour Baller08 - you are too high strung. According to you - it means you are trying to prove something.
 
Dec 4, 2007
1,074
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www.thrallmind.com
1:

Consider the following scenario: card magician A creates a trick and decides to sell it. Card magician B learns the trick, makes a variation and adds a bit more to the effect, and sells it as a new trick. Wouldn’t card magician A be frustrated? Of course he would.

This takes me to a critical point: any magic trick that you create cannot correctly be fully attributed to any one creator. Thus, how are any magicians able to sell material? Because they can. It all depends on how knowledgeable the customer is.

There exists a foundation of knowledge necessary to create card magic tricks. This foundations includes knowledge pertaining to what can be considered magical, the skills necessary to perform such tricks, etc. Therefore, I see the whole notion of selling magic tricks too hazy to be accepted as just.

Incorrect. We essentially (By we, I mean the higher order of magicians who sell effects, not merely someone with Microsoft Word and some web space) are able to determine what is just.

Seeing that only in minor instances do creators of similar effects seem to clash (at least from what we are able to see), it can be asserted that many magicians find creation and sale of effects, just. Otherwise, our innovation halts.

I think you are using the incorrect phraseology to express your feelings. It is not that selling magic is not just, but rather that no effect can be truly innovative.

2:

What we are experiencing is just another wave of evolution in the arts. When magic first hit the Internet, many old-school magicians thought magic was doomed. Now, any 13 year old can learn the greatest, most precious secrets in the world, right from their computer screen! But magic did not burn itself to the ground. In fact, I think it has pushed itself further.

YouTube is the next big thing to happen to magic. Now, people are revealing tricks left and right; one can learn most new tricks for free! Magic is certainly going to be doomed! Right? WRONG!

We are the old-school magicians now, believe it or not. What is going to determine whether or not we push our art further is whether we can focus more on personally creating new magic, performing it more, and not selling it! (The first two are necessary for magic to continue moving forward, but the third, believe it or not, is a mere luxury).

Take a look at the music industry. Now, the only way that bands are able to make lots of money and survive is by going on more tours and performing more. They can no longer survive from record sales alone. But if you think about this, is this a bad thing? I don’t think so.

The digitalization of music forced musicians to perform more. Isn’t that what music is all about? Isn’t that what magic is all about?!

I see YouTube as the greatest thing to happen to magic yet! I am now able to provide millions of people around the world with the tools necessary to make others happy. This is why I primarily produce tutorial videos online. And what do you know! Everybody loves them, beginners and professionals alike. Believe it or not, a few years ago when I decided that I no longer wanted to make money from magic, I started to enjoy it more! Funny how that works.

Here's the problem. You contradicted yourself.

You started by saying Musicians had to go out and perform to make money, and that we should do the same, because that is what magic is all about.

You then go and say you are happy to not make profit off of magic, and rather just do little tutorials on the net.

Pick one. Your main point of YouTube being good is it forces us to go and perform. But what good is going out and performing if the very effects we are doing are so easily revealed from some kid with mommies credit card?

Seeing a video of someone showing you how to perform a certain riff on a guitar will not ruin the experience when you go to see the band who created it perform.

Magic, on the other hand...the entire mystique and reason people go to a show is to be amazed and in some cases, actually fooled. If you see how an effect is done beforehand, and then you go to see a show which uses it, there is nothing to be amazed at.

And for those of you saying "They will be amazed that you can pull it off, then!" The majority of audiences are not magicians. They are not as affected as you think by seeing good technique. They came for a show, not a demonstration of skill.

-ThrallMind
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
Hey everyone. I'm going to read this thread in detail. I've received several complaints this thread had gone out of control. So, if this thread is really out of control, it will remain locked. If not, I'll re-open it in a few minutes after reading everything. So for now, this thread is temporarily closed. Either way, I'll post in a few minutes.

-Doug
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
RE-OPENED! Quick special thanks to Thrallmind who tried to get this topic back on track. :)

Anyway, I'm about to make a new thread. I hope everyone will read it. Keep things on topic now. I got rid of all the bad stuff. A thread that actually contributes to the forum shouldn't have to be locked. Keep things going guys. Thanks. :)

-Doug
 
Jul 2, 2008
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If you're going to go as far as saying no CARD magician can claim anything original, then you might at well just say no magic trick card, coin or anything else is original. I don't think anybody disagreed with that point. I don't completely agree with the second point but see where you're coming from. Great read, thanks.
 
Jul 2, 2008
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And now that I read your other posts, I also completely disagree. Not all card tricks are pick a card tricks; if this is the case, you obviously must ONLY be a stage magician. If you believe card magic boils down to basically two plots, you obviously aren't good at card magic! They aren't just card tricks, why would so man performers get hired JUST for cards, if the clients already knew they were going to just pick a card, and then the magician will find it in a million ways.

Tell Ricky Jay card tricks are all pick a cards!
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,268
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
No, not all card trick are pick-a-card tricks, but most of them are... simply, a good card effect (or any effect really) INVOLVES the spectator... what better was to get them involved then to have them select their own card? It creates an inherent hook, and holds interest. Nearly every time I do some card effects for a bunch of people, I am inevitably asked "Can I pick a card?" That WANT to get involved!
 
Jul 2, 2008
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I agree with people wanting to get involved. However, to completely classify all card tricks under one genre, and on TOP of that telling us you must slap a crappy premise along with it gives me the impression that Mr. Draven you are not good at card effects!
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
I can see despite having argued a valid point you still insist on being right no matter what the cost, so be it. I'm not going to fight you over such a tiny point.

You keep on believing there as many possible plots to card tricks as Michael Jackson has pictures of little boys if that is what helps you sleep at night.

Where did that attitude come from? All I said was that not all card plots are the same. Yeah, if you make a broad generalization about them, then maybe. But that's like all movies are the same and all books are the same because they all involve characters and people and or events.

I think you need to take a chill pill.
 
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