Where Are We Advancing To?

Keok.
I causlly reply and wonder why you are so close minded, I used to seperate myself from humans too. I used to imagine them as idiots, but then I realized, like you should, that I was the idiot.
If I was born human then that means others could meet my frame of mine, and that I was being a ..... for not just teaching others to become smarter. Ignoring isn't helping.
But this doesn't apply to the art, at the moment we don't need advancment, we have pros making money, no shortge of supplies, and not too much utub reaveal. We aren't in a crisis so stop acting like it.
Treat Illisionism as a weapon it doesn't need polish until it is dirty.
 
Aug 24, 2008
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Greece
I think some of you are missing the point - I'm not asking how we should advance, moreas where to?



So in essence, you think we've reached the peak of the art? There is nowhere left to go?

I'd like to know what change you assume would happen. The limit of your imagination is not the limit of mine.


G

No one can anticipate where magic can/will/should go . Magic is not a static thing but it's evolving constantly so it is almost impossible for some1 to say where he thinks magic should advance. Did Colombus know where he was going ? no he thought he did. It's te same thing with magic many thing it's about no ehposure or about people performing more for real audiences etc but the truth is that these are merely assumptions.
Now i am happy with magic right now as i can see it is evolving but i can also understand that those who support that it needs to change are saying so because they just dont like the way it is and i believe that if anyone knew where we should be heading he would say it.
Noone does though .........
 
Sep 1, 2007
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No we havn't reached the peak, but at the moment we're at the best.

And here's my problem. I don't believe in the best. There is no apex that cannot be surpassed.

Dude,what I meant by satisfied is, you have to be able to withstand it to make it better. Tolerance=change, I'm not saying don't act, I'm saying be pprepared not to.
I'm not saying good enough, i'm saying I COULD LIVE WITH IT.

Yes, I am aware of this. My problem is that you phrase it in such a manner that people can use to justify complacency.

But this doesn't apply to the art, at the moment we don't need advancment, we have pros making money, no shortge of supplies, and not too much utub reaveal. We aren't in a crisis so stop acting like it.

Again, this is where I am forced to disagree. My philosophy is one of perpetual self-improvement. There is never any reason to stop and rest.
 
May 13, 2008
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St Albans, UK
I think we should start with presenting magic rather than simply showing it. Take a week off sleights and perform self-working material. Maybe you'll fail the first few times, but you'll learn to present something and make it interesting. That's all i'd like to see - something interesting, not "mind-blowing" or "absolutely astonishing" or any of those magic cliches that are found too many times on trailers for overpriced DVDs from Mr NoName.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Keok.
I causlly reply and wonder why you are so close minded, I used to seperate myself from humans too. I used to imagine them as idiots, but then I realized, like you should, that I was the idiot.
If I was born human then that means others could meet my frame of mine, and that I was being a ..... for not just teaching others to become smarter. Ignoring isn't helping.
But this doesn't apply to the art, at the moment we don't need advancment, we have pros making money, no shortge of supplies, and not too much utub reaveal. We aren't in a crisis so stop acting like it.
Treat Illisionism as a weapon it doesn't need polish until it is dirty.

Close minded I am, you say? What a guy prancing around as wolf not open minded enough? I do not separate myself from mortals I coexist with them. I do not see humans as idiots I see them as creators of new advancements, I simply use there creations for a better purpose. I don't say this often but your entire post is wrong.

See what happens when the pros die and shrivel up, who is going to ADVANCE into a pro level. True we do not need to make money, I am perfectly happy roaming the woods. The thing that worries me is the magicians like yourself who want nothing more then to submit and not be self reliant in magic and not amount to anything at all are trying to tell me that I need to open my eyes. You may live by your opinion but I have chosen my route and it has gotten me many different places in my life. Furthermore proof read your gosh darn posts.
 
We all speak of furthering the art of magic; Whether we say it because we care, or because our friends do, is often discussed, yet where we want it to go is unheard of.

Where is it that magic should advance to? By furthering the art, where exactly is it that we would be taking ourselves?

Point is, we worry so much about the fact we want to go there, we don't even know what is actually there!

Where the f!ck are we supposed to be headed?
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Youtube-free seclusion?

G
i love this topic, ok i think when you further the art of magic, its not just being a magician, its about doing magic and something else, i like to pay homage's to celebrities/magicians by doing effect on some of their greatest moments wether i'm dressing like them, acting like them, or doing something they did in their lifetime and still doing an effect in the process...thats how you advance.....

also whenever you can add substance without taking away you are successful, i know i hear these names alot but Blaine and Angel both contributed in different ways...Blaine brought to a world level the appreciation for the art back to the world....

Angel, he brought it to a new level, with his really crazy and sick ideas.....

I love what theory 11 has done, sure they have effects,...but what theory 11 presents is pure education to the art....i personally have learned a lot from Lee Asher, my God, this man is alike a walking magic history book....trust me.....

but seriously we advance magic by being good student and teaching it the way you was taught....
 
Jul 13, 2009
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*Wakes up from his nap*

I have a little different of a question since this thread inspired it; I figure it is worth putting in here.
What things have separated this generation of magi from the older magi? Is it that the older people are "old style" and not hip enough for this generation? I am just curious, because frankly I love the way older magicians performed and presented magic, more then what is being made and performed in the online community. Old doesn’t necessarily mean dated, but more experienced.
 
Jan 28, 2009
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And here's my problem. I don't believe in the best. There is no apex that cannot be surpassed.



Yes, I am aware of this. My problem is that you phrase it in such a manner that people can use to justify complacency.



Again, this is where I am forced to disagree. My philosophy is one of perpetual self-improvement. There is never any reason to stop and rest.

But self improving to what? How do you define what real improvement is? What are you improving too? Perpetual improvement isn't a goal in itself, it's a means of traveling, but where's the destination?

Your thoughts on postmodernism in magic are good ones. The problem is, postmodernist thinking and experience by its very definition defies and for want of more poetic language picks apart the modernist grand narratives that were in vogue in modernist times. The concept of what is good, what is bad, what is improvement, were encapsulated by grand narratives themselves. They had a connetation innate to the word, which thanks largely to post modernist thinking has been shown to either be simulacral, or simply so dispatched into areas of gray as to be meaningless in their own right. Thus what is improvement? What is a good performance? Is the magic we now believe to be magic a high level simulacra? Is it the constant attempt to emmulate the simulacra poised by the channeling of magic through the hyper real (media, TV, film) in real world situations that which is causing the problem.

It's hard to be a character now. Even in DB's TV specials, which frankly exposed a generation of magicians to magic, or David Copperfields work, your seeing a simulacra of magic. A copy with no original. DB's levitation on his TV specials is a great example of this. He took a simple levetation effect, and then chopped it together such that it became impossible and then it was broadcast via the media of television. It became a copy of something that had never taken place, and became such a breathtaking effect that it utterly obscured the means of putting together a real performance.

With that in mind, where does magic have the power? Can it truly alter the times we live in? What is improvement? Better performance? Better presance? Better handling? Better ideology in the magic you perform? In a world where grand narratives have no place, or if they have one, they are oft destroyed before they can begin, where does one head?

Would it not be better to be of the times than against them and aknowledge that the future of magic, or where the art will advance to will be decided by factors outside the magic community?

Pretention in the magic community is huge too. People look at people like CA, or DB and read their biographies and believe that's how they genuinely think, which it may be, but more likely it enhances their hyper real persona to which others try and emulate in the stark desert of the real and are found feeling unsatisfied and ultimately unfulfilled.

Perhaps realization of that fact is a way of advancing magic and understanding that to walk in the realms of the hyper real with nothing but a deck of cards and no access to previous and historic grand narratives (A belief in true magic being one of them that has been picked to shreds by PM thinking) is truly a challenge. That the only way to truly advance the art, any art is to become real once again. To reach individual people through powerful performance, but that can only be done by aknowledging that in the battle to reach people, you are up against a force that is ridiculously powerful in its abilities to shape people's perceptions of what things are.

The sad consequence of the hyper real on our culture is that people believe that what is possible is defined by media telling them what is possible. We're up against saturday night TV, action films and camera magic. How do we keep pace with that?
 
Jun 27, 2008
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Illinois
G, I believe in order to answer your question we all need to see where magic is TODAY. I am largely isolated from the magic comunity- that is, I do not know any magicians and I have only seen one magician perform in person. I'd be interested to hear how you describe where magic is now in your opinion.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Would it not be better to be of the times than against them and aknowledge that the future of magic, or where the art will advance to will be decided by factors outside the magic community?

I'm not trying to go against the times, merely the post-modernist tendency toward a lack of direction. In a zeitgeist built on an obsession with deconstruction, it's very easy to lose sight of the fact that the act of deconstruction itself is ostensibly done to evaluate and pave the way to innovate.

While being topical can be good, I also look to patterns in theatrical and artistic tradition to find the timeless aspects. To shape the future, you have to understand the past first. I reference "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell. Campbell analyzed the mythology of world cultures and found a timeless recurring pattern in the "hero's journey" even among cultures who had never interacted. The journey was a timeless theme in the collective unconscious. George Lucas attributes part of the success of the first Star Wars film to the fact that he wrote the plot to faithfully follow the hero's journey.

Once you understand the past, you can more easily understand the present.

Let me give an example. The horror film genre has seen a bit of deconstruction lately. It started with Scream and most recently Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon. The films turn a reflexive and humorous eye toward the cliches, tropes, and standards of the genre in order to put it all into context. Having seen these films, a creative filmmaker now has added to his film vocabulary and reinforced his understanding of horror cinema. So now they understand the past.

Now they need to look to the present. Understand the zeitgeist, see what is repressed. They read the headlines, watch the news, read the psychological studies, etc. They are now equipped to find a topic to make into the theme for their movie.

The understanding of the past allows them to either use timeless standards or avoid cliches while the understanding of the present allows them to make a relevant message. This is the path toward progress.
 
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