Tally Ho Misconceptions

[BrainUndead]

Hello everyone. I came to Theory 11 with my questions because after looking around I figured its one of the best places to be heard by knowledgeable people. If you know of a better place to go with such questions directing me would be appreciated. I'm sure you guys can handle them fine though and if not I'll just wander into another forum.

To briefly pass over introductions, I'm a beginner in card magic and this is my first post in your forums. I've been looking around at people's advice on cards and after feeling them myself I'm pretty much set on Tally Hos, at least for now. However, I'm also hearing and reading about several things that aren't adding up.

I'll start with something relevant particularly to Theory 11. That is, that Theory 11 sells low quality or lesser quality cards. I've heard of two ebay sellers in particular that were recommended and trusted above this website. I know coming to a website and asking it to its face if its product is terrible is sort of crazy, but I want to hear your opinions anyway. Preferably from people who have bought cards from other sources and from Theory 11 as well, so that I may have a fair comparison. Is it such a thing as that they are printed in different runs or is there really no difference and no matter where you get cards from there's the odd chance of misalignment and other issues?

EDIT:
I am talking about the Tally Hos that Theory 11 sells, not the Theory 11 cards in general. I'm sorry I didn't clarify. Strictly Tally Hos, the ones bought from Theory 11 compared to other places.


Another odd thing I heard, from the guy behind the counter at a local magic shop, is that the Fan Back design is no longer being produced. He told me to "stock up now". After searching a bit with google I have found no such information to support this. I have seen that many people favor the Circle design (and that the members at Theory 11 had to somehow convince them to sell Fan Backs after they started selling the Circles originally) but that's the closest confirmation. I prefer Fan Backs myself so this is important to me.

Something else I've heard from multiple sources is that Bicycle and Tally Ho cards are the same. Particularly the claims are that Tally Hos used to have a Linoid finish but nowadays they have the same air finish as Bikes. I found this information odd as I felt the difference immediately when I held Tally Hos. I can feel a difference between Bikes, Bees and Tallys. I'm not willing to believe that this is merely the brand thats influencing my interpretation with cards - not without something more substantial. Like a lot of Theory 11 members telling me this is true.

Now this is more about cards in general, since I am a novice. I've heard such ecstatic claims with Tally Hos as that they have that "out of the box feel" long after most brands of cards become unusable. One person went so far as to say he'd put his Tally Ho cards, crimped and banged up slightly back in the box, and come back to it the next day and it was just like new. When I got my first deck of Tally Hos I noticed they felt "sharp" for lack of a better word. After only a few days of very very delicate care (I practice with my regular Bees, not these) I bought another deck of Tally Hos (albeit a different color and the Circle design instead) and compared the feel of them to my few days old deck. The new deck certainly felt much "sharper" than the deck I've had a few days. Is this the norm with cards, that they lose this sharp feeling slightly after just a few days handling them?

My few days old Tally Hos still feel great, much better than Bikes or Bees. If they feel different then my other deck out of the box, does this simply mean I've "broken them in" and can I expect how these feel now to be how they feel the majority of their "lifetime"?

EDIT:
After poking around in this very forum I found a post pitting the Circle and Fan Backs against eachother, as if they felt differently. Is this true? If so this might be why my new Tally Hos (red Circle) feel different from my few days old Tally Hos (blue Fan). It could be that they feel different out of the box and it has nothing to do with how long I've had them.

Thanks for all your answers. I'm sure only a few Tally Ho fans will take the time to read all of this but I appreciate your time, whether or not you respond.

 

[James Smith]

I'll start with something relevant particularly to Theory 11. That is, that Theory 11 sells low quality or lesser quality cards. I've heard of two ebay sellers in particular that were recommended and trusted above this website. I know coming to a website and asking it to its face if its product is terrible is sort of crazy, but I want to hear your opinions anyway. Preferably from people who have bought cards from other sources and from Theory 11 as well, so that I may have a fair comparison. Is it such a thing as that they are printed in different runs or is there really no difference and no matter where you get cards from there's the odd chance of misalignment and other issues?

It's all subjective. Ellusionist.com claims to have the best quality playing cards, and they do indeed have a thicker stock and a smoother finish. However, I prefer theory11 decks. One thing to remember is that theory11 decks aren't that much different than regular bikes. The only difference is the grungy design and a slightly thicker stock. I really like their decks, and I have six theory11 decks in my card cabinet right now. (2 Guardians, one sealed, one sealed Centurion, one sealed PROPAGANDA)

 

[BrainUndead]

Thanks for the opinion on that. My brother has taken a liking to Ellusionist deck whereas I find them to be "gimmicky".

However, I am speaking specifically about Tally Hos here, none of the Theory 11 originals (Propaganda, Centurion, Guardians, etc). As far as I know Theory 11's Tally Hos are the originals from the USPCC, whereas Ellusionist sells "Tally Ho Vipers". Thicker stock, with the same UV 500 Air Flow finish as they have on all of their cards.

So basically what I'm talking about are just standard original Tally Hos.

I've edited the original post for clarity, thanks for helping to point that out.

 

[chriswiehl]

well good job on doing some research and using the search button.
Now. Ive never ordered tallys from t11, but im sure they are just as good as the tallys sold anywhere else in the world. same company. the only difference i could maybe tell is if the cards were better printed in certian batches.
not 100% on that tho.
Circle and Fan are the same except for design. imo at least.
I like bikes, because they are standard, and cheap. and if you are new into magic, i would get some bikes, because you'll go thru them much faster
and in all honesty, most of the cards you get will handle about the same when you open the box. if i get a deck of bikes, i can perform just as well and be just as successfull as if i am using smoke and mirros, or tallys or anything else out there (with the exception of plastic coated cards which i never really use)

bikes are good becaue they are cheap and pretty decent quality

 

[BrainUndead]

I'm inclined to agree with you so far as the quality of the cards not defining the quality of the magician. Cards are merely tools - a shinier or more expensive tool will do no better in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it.

However, if I'm going to be spending lots of time with these cards I may as well use some that I like. I personally prefer the feel of many other cards over Bikes, even though I recognize how they are universal. For me personally, it is worth the extra buck for me to get a pack of Bees to practice with. They feel better to me and they seem a bit harder to mess up.

So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you so much as making a different choice. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[William Draven]

I'll play the devils advocate here and say this:

I don't recommend any deck to be used other than standard Red or Blue bikes, with the only exception being a masters deck.

I find that anything else just looks too damn suspicious to a layman.

A simple (all be it wrong) answer of "gimmick deck" is more than enough solution to jolt a spectator out of the suspension of disbelief. I digress, that is more theory than I think the products forum is equipped to handle.

Ultimately, do what you wish. So long as it looks good on stage, the audience is entertained, and your happy, I think you'll be good.

 

[Sinful07]

To argue, what does a 'Normal deck' looks like anyways? If you dress Goth-ish and carry around Shadow Masters, you can get away with murder just by saying

"... The cards match with the outfit."

Get the idea? Anyways, im a Splitspades/Studs fan though- Havent felt the 'Old' studs that everyone goes crazy about.

Good job on researching man.

 

[imdan247]

Word on the "street" is that "Q1" and "Q2" are not real. They are just claims so that sellers can spike their sales and such (just my opinion).

You can read jbayme's post here regarding this topic:
http://decknique.net/forums/thread:9186-2

As far as feel and everything goes, you'll know the difference. Bike's and Tally's are obviously not the same, in finish, stock, or design. The only similarity that they have is that USPCC prints them both.

Personally, I favor Tally's over other decks. I used bikes for months before I discovered Tally's, and I will never go back! Tally's not only last longer, they feel better, hold their shape better, stay stiffer longer (if you use a card clip), and are just overall better cards.

I have found differences between Circle Back's and Fan Back's, mostly that Fan Back's tend to be a bit more somoother, whereas Circle Back's tend to have more of the "Linoid" or "softer" feel. The difference isn't really even that noticeable until you have used the deck's for a while, and the Fan Back's will feel a bit different. That is just from my experence, I'm not making a claim or a statement.

The "sharpness" that you feel will subside, and the cards will almost feel soft and the deck will work and move as one. That is all part of breaking in the deck.

So here is my speel on "gimmicky" or different looking decks. Plain and simple, the right presentation can sell any deck.

When I frist started magic, I would use Black Tigers and people would ask why they were black, and I would just reply that they were my "magic" cards, and that seemed to satisfy them.

Tally's look similar enough to everyday cards that I have never been questioned about why my cards don't look like bikes.

Thank's for the great questions! I hope I have been of some assistance!

- Dan

 

[italian_magic_man]

After recently having a conversation with Aaron Fisher, he advised me to only ever use Red or Blue backed Bicycle cards. I'll admit I dabble with others and it is fun to take them out and make a video or two for arts sake. I think it wholly depends on what you use them for. If you're a cardistry guy, I feel it's your responsibility to figure out what your style is and let your cards reflect it accordingly, but if you're doing magic in general, stick to what people know and rely on for their weekly poker games.

Plus, if you ever decide to use gaffs, how many different brands of decks do you know that they print them for; typically they're printed for Bicycle unless you make your own...

 

[BrainUndead]

Wow, so many replies.

imdan you've given me the most useful reply so far and for that I thank you. You've done away with multiple points of my original post. If I'm going to take the statement in that thread you linked to literally, it means that they continue to print them at Theory 11. That's really all I needed to hear on that point.

As for the other replies, it seems as though the conversation veered a little off topic, the whole suspicion rating of a deck of cards. To be polite I'll give my opinion on the subject but I'll kindly remind you that that is not the intended focus of this thread.

I realize that laymen (in America) are likely to take Bikes over anything as ordinary cards. However my Tally Hos have not aroused anymore suspicion than the fact that I was doing magic tricks in the first place. In my experience, handing someone the cards is all I need to alleviate whether or not the cards are rigged.

Which works for me, because the style of magic I am most interested in uses no gimmicks. I don't like gaff cards, or set ups. I want my tricks to be done properly even if someone else hands me a deck of cards, as long as they have all 52 in them.

So I appreciate everyone's concern about the suspicion of my cards, thanks for coming to a thread simply to help a newby out.

 

[Andy.Boss.Glass]

if you really seriously want to handle cards, it DOES infact matter which brand you use. I dont personally dont use bikes because to me they look tacky. You want a professional image, not someone who just does card tricks from time to time, then get tallys. If you let them handle the deck, make sure its normal, then they wont think its gimmicked. Just be sure to get cards that are elegant and aesthethically pleasing. Personally, id recommend accros or tallys, but thats completely up to how your hands feel about the cards. If your head like em but your hands dont, you wont be performing your best. just some thoughts man.