Is it Ethical?

Mar 13, 2009
43
0
After reading a very interesting thread on the E forums about Magic/ Invention Ethics, it got me thinking.
Anyone who is familiar with Wayne Houchin's Candy Scam plot (AoM) would probably agree it is quite a good effect.
Here's my dilema.
In around 2002, I came up with 4 different handlings for, what is essentially, the exact same effect as Wayne's. The only versions that differ from Wayne's were a signed coin ending up inside the Skittles, or having the bill signed AND ripped.
(By the way, incase someone doesn't know what the effect is, the performer bascally rips the corner off a borrowed bill, which is used for later identification, buys a packet of Skittles from a vending machine with the ripped bill, and when the Skittles are opened, inside is the bill, and the corner matches.)
I wanted to know whether it was ethical for me to be performing this effect, as I had dscovered it years before coming across Wayne's performance (just released this year).

I found this posted from the E forums:
Originally Posted by Goudinov
From the IBM Code of Ethics:

All members of the International Brotherhood of Magicians agree to:

2) Display ethical behavior in the presentation of magic to the public and in our conduct as magicians, including not interfering with or jeopardizing the performance of another magician either through personal intervention or the unauthorized use of another's creation.

3) Recognize and respect for rights of the creators, inventors, authors, and owners of magic concepts, presentations, effects and literature, and their rights to have exclusive use of, or to grant permission for the use by others of such creations.


With all that said, I am still not sure whether it is ethical for me to perform my versions of this effect.
I did come to the conclusion that If I was to post a performance online (Youtube, Vimeo etc.) I would do so without first checking for any flashes or "give-aways" in the effect, and crediting to Wayne and referance to his site for details on his upcoming effect.
With THAT said, I have been performing this effect for 7 years already, so it would be interesting to hear your comments.

Cheers :)
 
Mar 13, 2009
43
0
I believe it may be unethical in many ways, one big way is the crediting of the effect. Wayne performed this on AOA, and Luke Dancy published it in 2001, the methodologies used are incredibly similar. Furthermore this is just a review from this thread:
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=21683&highlight=candy

May I ask why you believe it is unethical, considering I had no prior knowledge of their effects, and discovered the methodology on my own. By the way, I am not planning to release the effect, so I don't see how I can have "crediting issues".
I can just imagine having to walk up to a spectator and, after each performance, quote "Wayne Houchin Enterprises, 2001", else risking a law suit :)
Would I maybe have to buy the "rights" to their effect, by buying AoM2 (when Candy Scam is most likely released), in order to settle the ethical issues?
Thanks for posting about Luke, I almost forgot about him :)
Cheers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 15, 2007
1,106
2
35
Raleigh, NC
Nothing wrong with regularly performing this effect.

You created it, as have many other magicians, so you may use it.

The great debate would be if you could use it on television. If you plan on having a tv special it would be nice of you to contact both Luke and Wayne about it, explaining it, and then actually performing it. If your method differs, which is possible, then it wouldn't be a problem at all.
If they're similar, well, both Luke and Wayne are good guys and would probably work out a deal so you could do it.

Hope that helps
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
If it were me and I had come up with the effect way before Luke and Wayne, then yes, I'd perform away.

If I had come up with a variation on the handling of the effect after Luke and Wayne, perform away but if someone did ask, I would tell them it was a different handling of said performer's effect.

If nobody even asks what effect it is or who created it and it is not on a television performance, then I don't think it matters. I'd be performing it as much as I wanted.

Some people take the crediting way too far. In 10 years of performing I've NEVER had a spectator ask who created the effect. Only at our IBM rings have I been asked maybe once or twice in those 10 years about a certain effect. Oh well.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
I just want to say great job on the riddle and finding a method to a trick that works for you.

Just a tip, Two other magicians have come up with the same effect independently as well as you already know, one magician before the other. If you have Facebook, a possible advantage is that you could ask the two magicians yourself. Maybe some tips and subtlety could come your way and help you out.

When I made the statement of discredit, I apologize for not making myself clearer. The discredit that is being spoken of, was not of a teaching form of media, but a publishing of your effect on the internet through media ie youtube.
The matter of crediting the creator at each performance is a pretty ludicrous idea.
Of course everyone should not go out and credit people on the spot. What the internet doesn't know might as well not exist.
With that being said, if you did indeed create the effect entirely on your own then I have no problem with you performing it.

I congratulate you on your success, several effects that may be coming out and most of all being able to perform your version of a wonderful effect.

Hope this helped clear things up a bit,

Silver
 
Oct 28, 2007
453
0
Sydney Australia
Well I say, if you discovered it independently then you have all rights to perform it. However do give credit where it is needed.

A majority of the magic world is a rip off of old effects. eg Thread by Wayne Houchin is apparently an old Carnies trick that has been around of a while.

Just give credit where its due, if your effect was based around something.
 

nayost

Elite Member
Jun 18, 2008
167
0
Los Angeles, CA
Found a post by Wayne Houchin on the time line regarding the "candy" effects on magic cafe HERE. His post is around mid way down the page. Hope this clears up any confusions on the "who created what and when?" questions.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
First, it is clear that many people do not understand the true history of ideas in our art and why it is important to maintain them. 1) most magic effects are not 'rip offs' off older magic tricks. There are many thoughtful and original performers who do move the art forward with real innovation. The fact that many if them do not choose to sell out at 20$ a dvd and are there for below your radar does not mean they are not out there. However you are right, there are a lot of rip offs out there, but that isn't the problem with magic, but with lazy 'creators' and distributers who care more about making a buck than advancing the art. 2) the reason we credit is not for laypeople, but to preserve the history of ideas so we have a chance at moving forward. Sadly many people today confuse performing for real people and performing for each other. Not many perform for real people thinking the ultimate audience is the web cam or a dvd for other magicians or youtube. For those people, you owe it to them to be clear on your credits so the art can move forward.

To the original posters question;

Is you independantly came up with the idea without influence from either magician, then it is completelt ethical for you to perform it. The respectful thing to do would be to contact both men and share your history with them, but you can perform it.

Now, you can't publish it without dancy's permission as he got the idea into print first and gets to dictate how this is handled.

But those are the rules.
 

Bizzaro

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
464
10
Vegas
www.smappdooda.com
I think semantics run deep in magic as well. We could argue forever that bill with torn corner to impossible location isn't original either. (I'm glad we're not) However, if independent creation is yours, then performing it is indeed fine. Do what Brad said and contact them. You never know what might come of it.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results