Lets Make It Happen

Aug 18, 2008
680
3
For the last few months many people have been discussing the problems with theory 11. Myself and RD Chopper have sent several PMs to JB on possible improvements. So lets put everything down right here. I hope this turns out to be a good idea. So here is what I want everyone to do, hopefully we can get the majority of the members involved. Please answer the following questions truthfully. If you think something should be added, please let me know.

What is your name?
How long have you been doing magic?
How long have you been a member of T11?
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
What are the possible solutions?
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?

Answers dont have to be this precise, but please take the time to do this. Please please pleaseeeee do not resort to pointless arguments. I would be really upset if this turned into one big fight. I will post my response to these questions later today. Thank you everyone.
 
What is your name?

Mikk Pärg

How long have you been doing magic?

2,5 years

How long have you been a member of T11?

From the start...

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?

It hasnt really changed, its still what it was at the beginning it has only gotten better.

The forums are out of shape though!

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?

Currently the lack of normal conversations/discussions. The lack of knowledge and advice that we seek.

What are the possible solutions?

...

-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?

Take part in discussions. And really take part in them. Not, oh hey nice read.
Really put your two cents into them.

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?

They are!
 
Sep 24, 2009
64
0
WA
My name is Henvey (Hen-Vee) Chen

I've been doing magic on and off. I started about 3 years ago, did it for 2 months, stopped, started again 2 years ago and got more into it buying more tricks with gimmicks instead of just card tricks, now I started again and intend on just doing card/coin magic.

I've been here for 3 days :p

T11 hasnt changed for me.

I think there some arguments but I still can see a lot of helpful threads.

I dont have any solutions :(
 
Nov 8, 2008
73
0
Copenhagen
What is your name?

Nico


How long have you been a member of T11?

1 year

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?

It hasnt changed!


What are some problems you see in the forums right now?

Well most of the users are "newbies". Theory11 has very few experienced magicians that lead the discussions.

What are the possible solutions?

The artists could take more part in the forums. But I can understand that they don't really have time for that.
 
Jun 14, 2008
40
0
I think this is a very well-meaning post, and, as such, I hope it receives the respect and kindness it deserves.

My name is Steven.

I have only been "doing" magic for about 18 months. Although some of you may think calls into question any comment I have made (or will make, for that matter), I call upon those who will be the saviors of these forums, in asking you all to value my opinion for what it is worth. You will never see me blasting someone for an unconfident performance, as I have not, as of yet, found the cahones to go out and perform myself. Hopefully my candor will be valued in this discussion.

I have been a member since July 14th, 2008. (Or so my profile tells me ;) )

I think one of the main differences, is a more noticeable influx of "pointless" threads. By this I mean, questions we are ALL sick of hearing. Questions that could have been irrefutably answered with an adroit use of the 'search' option. These threads have been started by those the internet community has chosen to label: "N00bs" or some variation thereof. As anyone who is interested may discover, not so long ago, I myself began some threads like this.

I am not proud of this.

I make no excuses.

What has changed? - I have matured a little, I have aged slightly, but more importantly, I have learned.

I have read Fitzkee, and Giobbi and Tamariz and Hugard & Braeue.

I have come to develop an understanding of where I am in this art, and how I can move forward.

This may seem a bit off-topic, but it is not. My point is that, in fact, one of the MAIN differences, and perhaps one of the greatest problems these forums face, is a RAPIDLY declining sense of tolerance.

People put up with my pointlessness. They coped with the sheer idiocy of myself and others.

Now however, we have a very different story. I am not exempt from this. I too have become increasingly, and hypocritically frustrated with the kind of blather I myself was spewing only a short while ago.

Although I realize I have not mentioned all the problems thus far; this, I feel, if solved would provide a noticeable difference. If I did not believe this, I wouldn't have posted.

In looking for a solution to this, I think it is important to look at both sides; i.e. those who are posting this stuff, and those of us who are repulsed by it.

For those who are taking part in this debacle, THEY SEE NO WRONG. As far as they're concerned, which deck is better for a flourish they can't do, or even, how good their 2 month old Classic Pass (Yes, that IS taken from my personal history :) ) is the most important thing in the world. To them, the excitement and joy they have for (what they believe to be) the art of magic, overpowers their present (but underused) common sense. To them, this is not a community in which we are all equal, but a resource for THEM. So that THEY can improve.

It is ugly.

It is selfish.

It is also one of the most natural things in the world.

Hopefully this kind of description will have some resonance for each of you, and you can all see, and come to believe, as I do, that these folks are just INCAPABLE of understanding that what they are doing is incorrect, and impolite.


Having said that, it still annoys me. It shouldn't, but it does.

Clearly it annoys you too, as if you are reading this, and not spending your parents’ well-earned income on the latest E DVD.

Therefore, we must find a happy medium, and this, I believe (and hope) is achievable.

My plan for this involves EVERY SINGLE MEMBER. Mods and staff included.

Any thread, which has already been posted, should be deleted. PERIOD.

Along with this, to minimize the work required going forward; I would recommend a PM to be sent to the poster in question, informing them of why their thread was removed, and a link to the original thread.

This is not to be a snotty, "up-yours" kind of a message. It should be one of understanding, a voice of progression, help, and optimism.

Why should these people, unconscious of any wrong-doing be submitted to public (I use this in the sense that a forum is public) insult, belittling, and bellicosity.

These are REAL, LIVE, HUMAN BEINGS. As such they deserve our empathy.

Notice I said empathy, NOT respect. I have seen people come on here and show no sense of history, no sense of respect for what Theory 11 is doing it's very best to achieve.

Jonathan Bayme had a beautiful concept, and we, my fellow members, are disgracing that ideal.

Do you want to put a stop to pointless, idiotic, imbecilic threads?

You have heard what I have to say.

As you sit there now, eyes growing tired from this lengthy post, you can begin to realize something. An undeniable truth:


We need to stop talking about this, and TAKE ACTION.

We can help these misguided souls right now.

We can provide a bounty of learning and wisdom.

OR we can do nothing. You could talk; you could type, but do nothing.


I urge you; make you decision NOW.

BECOME the solution.


Prove to me, to the most esteemed artists and other members, but most importantly to Mr. Jonathan Bayme, that we HAVE NOT wasted his time. That we HAVE NOT destroyed a wonderful dream.

Prove to yourself, that YOU can rise above the others, that together (drum roll please...)

To quote President Obama: "Yes We Can".


Postscript: Usually people apologize for long posts, but I really care about T11. It means an indescribable amount to me, that very few would understand. For that reason, I simply and humbly offer these thoughts, and hope that we can come to an understanding.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 20, 2008
80
0
sugarland, tx
What is your name?
Michael
How long have you been doing magic?
about 3 years
How long have you been a member of T11?
almost a year
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
It has made me more into magic and card flourishing, and helped me alot.
What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
not alot of people on,need more things to discuss and talk about,should have some meetings based on some type of magic or flourishing of sum sort.
What are the possible solutions?
go out and get people into magic and get more people to the forums/make more videos and things like that/need to scedule meetings.
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
Go out and get people into cardistry and magic and also go to other forums and get people to come to theory11.
-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Make meetings since most people will listen to them, plus they can work on theory11 by making more videos and contests.
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
They could do everything everyone else should but they are doing great jobs.
 
-What is your name?

william mckeehan

-How long have you been doing magic?

3 years or around there.

-How long have you been a member of T11?

i dont remember but not TOO long maybe a year?

-In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?

conversation has changed or something

-What are some problems you see in the forums right now?

everyone is doing the same magic and asking the same questions it seems like

-What are the possible solutions?

good question maybe people should be more creative but all that isnt the websites fault so im not sure the website is doing all that it can

-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?

improve our selves

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?

i think they do a good job keeping it interesting i like the website

-Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?

i believe so i always see stupid forums get deleted and they seem to be up to speed imo



keep up the good work
 
What is your name?
William Draven

How long have you been doing magic?
I've been studing magic for 26 years. I've been professional now for about 10 years.

How long have you been a member of T11?
About a year. I joined in December 1st of 2008

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
I haven't really seen a change. The forums are pretty much as they were when I got here.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
The same as every other fourm. The ratio of magicians to those who just want/try to be in the scene is about 1 in 60. This isn't like the magic castle where there are standards to be a member. Anyone with an internet connection and money to buy one trick can come in here and call themself a magician.

What are the possible solutions?
Without sounding like an elitist, I would recomend the creation of a special password protection forum that is fiercely guarded by moderators, and closely monitered by all participants who are seriously dedicated to the progression of the art of magic. A forum that has standards, and serries of tests in order to join. Some kind of place that isn't accessable by just anyone, that only those who have proven themself worthy can enter, and contribute.

What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
encourage continual personal development and discourage remaining stagnant in magic.

What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Read above. 1 more specialized thread that doesn't appear to everyone who comes to this site wouldn't kill the enviroment at all. Infact... it gives everyone else something to work for. Once upon a time we USED to be a secret society. Something tells me our for-fathers weren't that far off with that kind of mentality. If someone wants to just learn a trick to fool their friends great. they have T11 and General Forums. If they want to press forth and become a better professional by talking with others just as dedicated, then you have a special forum.

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
So far, no complaints. Zack and Sinful are the only two I ever see do anything on a regular bases, but I've been told there is more.
 
Jul 1, 2009
648
1
29
Austin,TX
For the last few months many people have been discussing the problems with theory 11. Myself and RD Chopper have sent several PMs to JB on possible improvements. So lets put everything down right here. I hope this turns out to be a good idea. So here is what I want everyone to do, hopefully we can get the majority of the members involved. Please answer the following questions truthfully. If you think something should be added, please let me know.

What is your name?
How long have you been doing magic?
How long have you been a member of T11?
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
What are the possible solutions?
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?

Adrian

3 months

Join T11 on July 1, 2009

They change a little, but recently there is too many fights.

To many fights for misunderstanding or for something stupid

Bump the meaniful threads, Read these kind of threads and reply. JB and John Rakier can encourage use to reply to magical threads.

The moderators are doing a great job:D

If we find a solution then we are going to make it happen or just talk about and do nothing about.
 
For the last few months many people have been discussing the problems with theory 11. Myself and RD Chopper have sent several PMs to JB on possible improvements. So lets put everything down right here. I hope this turns out to be a good idea. So here is what I want everyone to do, hopefully we can get the majority of the members involved. Please answer the following questions truthfully. If you think something should be added, please let me know.

What is your name?
How long have you been doing magic?
How long have you been a member of T11?
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
What are the possible solutions?
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?

Answers dont have to be this precise, but please take the time to do this. Please please pleaseeeee do not resort to pointless arguments. I would be really upset if this turned into one big fight. I will post my response to these questions later today. Thank you everyone.

Richard

More than three years

Joined November 15th, 2008

I think that it has changed for the better in someways but for the worst in others, it deffinently has more recognition now than ever.

To much fighting in the forums, when I first joined I noticed the respect that the people gave each other on this site, there wasn't so many disputes but there are now some almost every thread, my biggest problems aren't in the threads though. What I really have a problem with is that the staff at theory11 have deleted some of the older 1on1's, I really don't like this because something I may not have thought much about then is now gone when I and taking another look at it.

It may be a bit much in asking if they would put the older 1on1's back up.

I think that the moderators are doing a fantastic job because I am sure it is a very difficult thing to do running this website and I comend them for it.
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,793
888
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
What are the possible solutions?
Without sounding like an elitist, I would recomend the creation of a special password protection forum that is fiercely guarded by moderators, and closely monitered by all participants who are seriously dedicated to the progression of the art of magic. A forum that has standards, and serries of tests in order to join. Some kind of place that isn't accessable by just anyone, that only those who have proven themself worthy can enter, and contribute.

They already have that. It's great.

j/k < I like this idea, but difficult to not make it elitist like you mention

justin
 
What is your name?
I'm known as The Tumble, but you guys can call me Josh Tredinnick
How long have you been doing magic?
Almost 3 years now
How long have you been a member of T11?
I was a few months late, but almost since the beginning
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
Interesting question, and I guess there's a few answers.

I'd say the main difference is that it has shifted from a community to more of a business. I don't believe that's theory11's problem, it's just that we get so many new members simply assuming that it's just another E or Penguin. Which, in a sense, it is slowly turning into, and that's mainly what I want to change.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
Same as everyone else, arguments over stupid and unnecessary subjects. I'd like to believe that I'm one of the few that doesn't participate in the disputes, but merely watches on the sidelines, trying to think of some way to stop it all.
What are the possible solutions?
Simple, delete those posts and threads so people get the damn idea.
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
As a community? Let Team Awesome get in charge :cool:

But seriously, Team Awesome already basically runs a lot of the forums :p

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Just shove a couple more mods in the mix from different time zones, ones with the balls to delete stupid threads.
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
I'd like to say yes, I really would. But where are they? The only one I see around here is Sinful, and he's the man. Zachmonky does a bit, but come on, he's what, 12? Someone had to say it :cool:

Is that all the questions? I feel like I've said nothing :(
Well, theory11's awesome, but it's just the the few crappy members who just ruin it for everyone, and chase away the ones we really love. What happened to Morgician? Got drove away, same as many others. Team Awesome's slowly drifting away, I only just came back from a massive hiatus (I just wanted to say hiatus)
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
What is your name?
Rick Everhart "reverhart"
How long have you been doing magic?
Almost 10 years now
How long have you been a member of T11?
For a little over a year now.
In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
It used to be a place where a magician could discuss a great deal of important points regarding magic and now it has turned into a pissing contest and bash session. That's what happens when you have a group of magicians, athletes, anyone, who are very proud and cocky.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
Way too many arguments that are not deleted by the mods. It is almost like they "some" like to watch the trainwreck happen instead of just getting it back on topic or deleting it.

Some of the media videos that are allowed ie. "the guys on the boat rapping" was down right obnoxious and showed how low Theory 11 stoops when in fact aren't we trying to promote a young group of respected citizens / magicians.

What are the possible solutions?
The mods need to give 1 warning to get back on topic and cut the bashing and then if it doesn't stop, the thread is deleted. If a said member continually promotes arguing and bickering in threads, he or she should lose posting rights.

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Just shove a couple more mods in the mix from different time zones, ones with the balls to delete stupid threads. AGREED!!!

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
For the most part no but that isn't their fault. Some of these guys are still in school whether it be high school, college, or maybe even middle school (zach) ha ha. School and family is a priority and should be over Theory 11. Anything that is posted in the forum that has absolutely nothing to do with magic should get deleted. Also...the threads that ask, "What do you think I should buy with my $90 or vote for your favorite deck....ahhhhhh. I'm so sick of these.


There are a lot of us on here with great amounts of experience "Draven, Shane Black, Morgician, Z-magic, myself, and a few others and many of us fee like when we do post something relevant, nobody even pays attention to it. It gets skipped over by all the noobs who are asking what deck is the best. Many of us are losing interest because of this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 15, 2007
1,106
2
36
Raleigh, NC
What is your name?
Richard Allen

How long have you been doing magic?
I've lost count of the years. There was no 'definitive' moment when I started. Serious study of the art has probably been going on for the last 3 years though.

How long have you been a member of T11?
November 15th, 2007 Almost 2 years.

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
It has changed a lot, in small increments. In many ways it's grown and benefited from the changes (new members, new artists, popularity) and some ways the change has hurt it (popularity[double edge sword], certain members that have come and gone...)

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
The varying dedications to the art which ranges from the people who've learned one trick and want to say they know more than the people who actually perform regularly all the way to, well, the artists. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but there is a lot of bad advice floating around and sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the novice, the intermediate, and the professional opinion.

I haven't been on the forums much the last few months, posting here and there and reading mostly, so I don't know too many other problems.

What are the possible solutions?
I think the video I watched, and go back and watch every few months, that is geared towards 'beginners' is one of the best starting places and it seems like a lot of people miss it when coming to the site. There is a lot of good advice from seasoned professionals, and I think more video updates including general advice like that would be great for the media section. Getting people to watch them...well the people who want the best advice from the best council will pay attention I suppose.

-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
Respect. Almost everything in life comes down to respect. The reason W:H's Art of Magic didn't have Candy Scam was because it was already in print (or at least a similar one was) and he respected that enough to cut it from the dvd.

The same goes for the forums, if we respect everyone enough to show them where they are wrong, assuming someone will eventually be wrong, and then having the respect to accept when we are wrong. Don't argue over anything that isn't worth it. If two people take two different approaches to the same move, and both work, then nobody is wrong, try both of them out and then use what is comfortable to you.

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
They do a lot already, but I think if they could spare a little more free time (I know how little free time some days have) then post a few times in threads that interest you. Maybe encourage the artists to make a minimum of one post per day, something meaningful or something funny to add to one of the borderline off topic threads that they find hilarious.

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
I've never had any problem with the moderators. They seem to be on top of things most of the time. I also haven't been around much the last few months.


:)
 
Nov 14, 2007
41
1
35
Mexico City
What is your name?
Alfonso Vallarta (smart, oi?)

How long have you been doing magic?
Seriously? 6 months. Before I was too lazy with it to actually work on it.

How long have you been a member of T11?
Nov. 14, 2007. Yet just started again.

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
From what I remember back then, it isn't really that different. More immaturity from some members, though.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
Too many members with a childish attitude, and a lack of good threads (the good ones are QUITE good, though).

What are the possible solutions?
-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
Grow up, those who need to. Contribute where one can.
-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
I like the sound of W. Draven's proposal. Plus, it would make some work to achieve it; even if only to know what's there.
Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
I'm a member of one other forum. 2,685 members as of now with about 130 being active (as in daily). About 500 posts per day. There's ONE moderator and 2 Admins. We never have issues. The rare occasion someone behaves wrong, the same community tells him/her. Not bashing, just asking for some serenity. One must be at least 18 to join, so we all expect people to act like adults in there. We rarely ban members, but always stay in touch by PM when needed. Members report threads with spam. WE are just as important to the board.

So the mods here, though doing their job, need the members here to help.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
What is your name?
John Keo (Hawaiian for white or silver) Mitchell
Keokeo (K-Oh. K-oh) is white Keoke (K-Oh, K) means Silver. Now you know because Knowledge is power.

How long have you been doing magic?
About since I was born bring the magic of a smile to my mothers face every day.
I do not think that is the magic you meant but I have been doing magic for about 13 years, 5 years as a working magician for a local Boys and Girls Club.

How long have you been a member of T11?
I do believe I was here around 2008 early or late, I still remember the What is theory11 web page, that is how far back I have known t11.

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?

It really hasn't, but it has made me insensitive to the idea that real negativity can be projected through a forum. It has also opened my eyes to pop magic and magicians. Never knew Danny Garcia until I came here, didn't know about dan and dave. I only knew the older folks, Whyt Hayden, De'vo, and the such.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
People bring to much emotion to the forum, I mean personal opinions are great but no need to shout it to the world. Also I have no idea where it became okay to swear in posts. I realize that I may have done it because I was truly angry at someone for attacking me personally. But if you have to swear to try and help convey your point you need to go back to school or stop doing magi in school and pay attention to the teacher.

What are the possible solutions?
Stop caring about your opinions so much, people will attack them and tear them apart whatever. It shouldn't matter to the point you feel physically or mentally saddened.

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Mr. Raiker and, Mr. Bayme are doing very keeping the monster in check.

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
Yeah I do believe the moderators are fine, what we need is the forum as a whole needs to moderate themselves and not rely on others to mod for you.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
I am curious now I have seen many people postin about arguments and negativity, submit proof if it is okay with the OP I would like to see links to threads that have negativity and train wreck arguments.
 
Aug 18, 2008
680
3
What is your name?
Chris

What is your quest?
To seek the holy grail

How long have you been doing magic?
Its been a good 12 years

How long have you been a member of T11?
I joined in August of 2008

In your opinion, how has T11 changed since you joined?
It just seems like the maturity level has plummeted. Every thread turns into an argument. Also, the quality of videos and performances is much worse than before, why is this? I have no idea.

What are some problems you see in the forums right now?
First of all, some people gotta go! I know this sounds harsh, but there are a number of members who are only making these forums worse for everyone.

What are the possible solutions?
If there was an easy solution we wouldnt be in this mess. First i think everyone needs to admit there is a problem. New members should be given a list of instructions telling them all about the rules, threads that should and should not be made, how to use the search function properly, and what T11 is all about.

-What can we do as a community to improve these forums for everyone?
As a community, we just need to grow the F(*& up.

-What could JB, John Raiker, and other administrators do to help improve the forums?
Be more involved. Yes Raiker posts sometimes, but rarely is it any advice or anything useful. Artists? Yes they are busy people, but they are a part of this community. Many of them have not released anything here in a long time. At least one post per artist in the Cerca Trova forum. How long would that take? Maybe 5 minutes a month? Ha, if they cant do that they shouldnt be called T11 artists. Also, remember when DG made tons of posts as anynomous? He could have spent the time posting useful threads and advice to help all the members, but no, hype, products, money were more important.

Do you believe the moderators are up to par at the moment? If not, what could they do to improve?
A changing of the guard. Sinful, you rock, everyone knows that, but besides you....meh. Sorry other mods, I dont even know who else there is, thats how little we see of you.
 
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