News Story Breaking on Yahoo!

There's a news story breaking on yahoo, which I'll share below. I will be the first to admit that it doesn't have anything to do with magic, it does in fact have something to do with many of the people that come here. School.

We've seen this before and will see it again. Just where does the line between involvement and passive observation get drawn when the subject is kids, and school?

I guess in a way this can extend to us performing magic. To do so, many of us carry decks of playing cards. Playing cards are traditionally gambling tools for kids in school. Should we be subject to the same disciplinary actions as some thug who only wants to griff some kids lunch money from him? Are we not above such things morally and ethically as someone who is in possession of a greater knowledge about things subvert?

Yet I guess the counter argument can be made that we don't have to perform at school at all. We do have other outlets, other places to perform at. But when you are suffering from a form of prejudice (such as being a minor under the age of 18 or 21 for that matter) what other options do you have, when school and home is where you spend the majority of your time each week?

Some food for thought. Here's the article.

The original artical is from a yahoo based news link, and published by the New York Times by author IAN URBINA. The original source address for the artical can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?no_interstitial

NEWARK, Del. — Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother’s fiancé by his side to vouch for him.

Zachary’s offense? Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about recently joining the Cub Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary was suspended and now faces 45 days in the district’s reform school.

“It just seems unfair,” Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.

But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

“Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously,” said Debbie Christie, Zachary’s mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. “He is not some sort of threat to his classmates.”

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

“There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife,” said George Evans, the president of the Christina district’s school board. He defended the decision, but added that the board might adjust the rules when it comes to younger children like Zachary.

Critics contend that zero-tolerance policies like those in the Christina district have led to sharp increases in suspensions and expulsions, often putting children on the streets or in other places where their behavior only worsens, and that the policies undermine the ability of school officials to use common sense in handling minor infractions.

For Delaware, Zachary’s case is especially frustrating because last year state lawmakers tried to make disciplinary rules more flexible by giving local boards authority to, “on a case-by-case basis, modify the terms of the expulsion.”

The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.

In Zachary’s case, the state’s new law did not help because it mentions only expulsion and does not explicitly address suspensions. A revised law is being drafted to include suspensions.

“We didn’t want our son becoming the poster child for this,” Ms. Christie said, “but this is out of control.”

In a letter to the district’s disciplinary committee, State Representative Teresa L. Schooley, Democrat of Newark, wrote, “I am asking each of you to consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child.”

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

“The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Other school districts are also trying to address problems they say have stemmed in part from overly strict zero-tolerance policies.

In Baltimore, around 10,000 students, about 12 percent of the city’s enrollment, were suspended during the 2006-7 school year, mostly for disruption and insubordination, according to a report by the Open Society Institute-Baltimore. School officials there are rewriting the disciplinary code, to route students to counseling rather than suspension.

In Milwaukee, where school officials reported that 40 percent of ninth graders had been suspended at least once in the 2006-7 school year, the superintendent has encouraged teachers not to overreact to student misconduct.

“Something has to change,” said Dodi Herbert, whose 13-year old son, Kyle, was suspended in May and ordered to attend the Christina district’s reform school for 45 days after another student dropped a pocket knife in his lap. School officials declined to comment on the case for reasons of privacy.

Ms. Herbert, who said her son was a straight-A student, has since been home-schooling him instead of sending him to the reform school.

The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project.

Charles P. Ewing, a professor of law and psychology at the University at Buffalo Law School who has written about school safety issues, said he favored a strict zero-tolerance approach.

“There are still serious threats every day in schools,” Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.

In the 2005-6 school year, 86 percent of public schools reported at least one violent crime, theft or other crime, according to the most recent federal survey.

And yet, federal studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another by the Department of Justice show that the rate of school-related homicides and nonfatal violence has fallen over most of the past decade.

Educational experts say the decline is less a result of zero-tolerance policies than of other programs like peer mediation, student support groups and adult mentorships, as well as an overall decrease in all forms of crime.

For Zachary, it is not school violence that has left him reluctant to return to classes.

“I just think the other kids may tease me for being in trouble,” he said, pausing before adding, “but I think the rules are what is wrong, not me.”
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
I wholeheartedly agree with the committee on this one.

You know what? Better safe than sorry, and I'd rather not have any one, regardless of age and sex, carry knives into school.

I do see the contra argument here. There is a very fine line, but in my late-night opinion, they were right in detaining the situation. Although 45 days is a little much, no? They must have led an investigation and realized the kid had no harmful intent...?

Gus
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
This is ridiculous. It's just nuts. I disagree the whole way. The kid is six, guys. Come on now.

As far as cards, I totally know what you mean. Ignorant teachers and superintendents will automatically see cards as the work of the devil and an malicious tool for spreading negativity.

It's card tricks, folks. Let it go.

Ian
 
Jul 25, 2009
48
0
HaHa i could rant on for days about this and other school rules. He's a Fricken 6-year-old and 45 days in a reform school, that is just irrational. If i was the principal or something i would have just suspended him for a few days,he'll understand that what he did was wrong.When i was in second grade we had a magnetic board with our names on popcicle sticks,it showed how good or bad we've been. everytime we did something bad we got our stick moved. it went from:
Office
Not Good
Okay
Good
Excelent
and I once got made at some kid and called him a b*tch
and i got my stick moved to "Okay" and I cried about it all weekend. The normal punishment for swearing was a detention. but my teacher was sypathetic to me because i was always "excelent". From what I understood about this kid is he was always good why give him such a harsh punishment?

:mad:It's people on the disipline board like that, that REALLY get me pissed:mad: and when they see me holding a deck of cards at school they automaticly think im gambling, hussleing, or im the devil
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
I wholeheartedly agree with the committee on this one.

You know what? Better safe than sorry, and I'd rather not have any one, regardless of age and sex, carry knives into school.

I do see the contra argument here. There is a very fine line, but in my late-night opinion, they were right in detaining the situation. Although 45 days is a little much, no? They must have led an investigation and realized the kid had no harmful intent...?

Gus

I wholeheartedly disagree with you and the committee on this one.

I think what they are doing is RIDICULOUS. I mean seriously? Suspend a 6 year old kid for bringing a fork/knife/spoon to class because he was excited to be in Cub Scouts?.... WHAT?!

I think at the worst, the kid should had gotten the fork thing taken away, given to the principal, have just a quick phone call home about what happened, and maybe a detention. That would had been enough.

To torment a little kid like that when he didn't know he was going to do anything wrong is ridiculous. Maybe I should start a petition to have pens and pencils banned because those can easily be used to stab someone. We should all be writing with Crayola markers.

Seriously, that is pathetic. There are waaaay too many dumb people in this world.

Also, I don't perform in school for similar reasons. Teachers will think I'm gambling. Yet, for some reason, UNO is allowed commonly by teachers. I can't tell you how many times I've heard

"Put the cards away!"

"It's ok! We're playing UNO."

"Oh, that's alright then."

Please..... Rules are way too strict today. I can understand that students should not bring these things to school, but to punish a 6 year old for being enthusiastic about Cub Scouts? What has this world come to?

-Doug
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
HaHa i could rant on for days about this and other school rules. He's a Fricken 6-year-old and 45 days in a reform school, that is just irrational. If i was the principal or something i would have just suspended him for a few days,he'll understand that what he did was wrong.When i was in second grade we had a magnetic board with our names on popcicle sticks,it showed how good or bad we've been. everytime we did something bad we got our stick moved. it went from:
Office
Not Good
Okay
Good
Excelent
and I once got made at some kid and called him a b*tch
and i got my stick moved to "Okay" and I cried about it all weekend. The normal punishment for swearing was a detention. but my teacher was sypathetic to me because i was always "excelent". From what I understood about this kid is he was always good why give him such a harsh punishment?

:mad:It's people on the disipline board like that, that REALLY get me pissed:mad: and when they see me holding a deck of cards at school they automaticly think im gambling, hussleing, or im the devil

Are we arguing against the punishment? If that's the case, then I do agree that it is a little harsh.

However, I completely support the fact that they decided to punish the kid severely. It'll serve as an example and bring even more media attention at the 'problem'.

Gus
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
Are we arguing against the punishment? If that's the case, then I do agree that it is a little harsh.

However, I completely support the fact that they decided to punish the kid severely. It'll serve as an example and bring even more media attention at the 'problem'.

Gus

A little harsh? He's getting 45 days in a reform school... That's only a LITTLE harsh?

I disagree with the severe punishment. I think you're forgetting the fact that the kid is SIX YEARS OLD. If he was told it was a bad thing to do, I doubt he would ever do it again.

Seriously, this is such a hard punishment to do to a kid who doesn't even know the difference between right and wrong at his age.

-Doug
 
May 18, 2008
807
0
He didn't know any better. I have to say I see where the disiplinary commitee is coming from, but like, come ON! Give that kid a break!
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
He didn't know any better. I have to say I see where the disiplinary commitee is coming from, but like, come ON! Give that kid a break!

I don't see where they are coming from....

-Doug
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
Her, upon further reading, it seems I've misjudged the article.

I thiought he'd brought an army knife type thing, not that spork, as Doug mentions.

However, Doug, I will just point out (In a neutral tone) that had they been wrong, and had the kid for some reason had a breakdown and hamred somebody a lá Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, then everyone would be up the police's and the school arse for not having stricter ruling.

I can't seem to get a get a proper stance on this, because I seem to support two sides in different manners.

It's a vicious situation, really.

Please..... Rules are way too strict today. I can understand that students should not bring these things to school, but to punish a 6 year old for being enthusiastic about Cub Scouts? What has this world come to?

-Doug

Yes. Agree solemnly or be vaporized. Cough1984cough.

G
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
A little harsh? He's getting 45 days in a reform school... That's only a LITTLE harsh?

I disagree with the severe punishment. I think you're forgetting the fact that the kid is SIX YEARS OLD. If he was told it was a bad thing to do, I doubt he would ever do it again.

Seriously, this is such a hard punishment to do to a kid who doesn't even know the difference between right and wrong at his age.

-Doug

I am quite sure he does understand the difference, as the article points out he sometimes wore suits to school because he understood that school was a serious thing.

Regardless, the law is the law and the law is applicable to everyone.

By now, I'm venturing into agreeing with the committee. Nothing against anyone here, but it's just the way I see things.
 
With 45 days in reform school (that's about a month and a half give or take a weekend) I wonder who's really getting punished here. The child or his parents.

I feel that the child has learned nothing, by fault of his own statement: "the rules are wrong, not me." At such an early age I think this is a huge mis-giving and failed lesson on the childs part. The rules were in place, he broke them. He needs to understand that. You could comfort him by helping him understand that the actions taken against him are far harsher than what could and should surfice, but not that he is innocent.

Granted the punishment and actions of his teachers and administrators seem to be a bit extreme, but that is a subject all together diffrent. Fact is, he should understand that he was in the wrong.

With all that being said, I place the blame completely upon the parents. I feel the parents did a poor job at thinking this situation through and explaining to Jr. that there is a time and a place for everything.

I was also in cubscouts. I remember getting a swiss army knife for christmas one year because ...well duh. I was in cub scouts and all the kids had one. However it was made clear to me that there were only certain times and places that I could use my knife.

I think the same thing applies here.

Parents screwed up, kid's taking the heat for it, and the school administration is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
There is a difference between a spork and an army knife, but I see what you've got there. Hadn't thought about the parents before.

Sheds new light altogether, and brings put quite a different picture.

Gus
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
A little harsh? He's getting 45 days in a reform school... That's only a LITTLE harsh?

I disagree with the severe punishment. I think you're forgetting the fact that the kid is SIX YEARS OLD. If he was told it was a bad thing to do, I doubt he would ever do it again.

Seriously, this is such a hard punishment to do to a kid who doesn't even know the difference between right and wrong at his age.

-Doug

And I thought that things in mexico were messed up.

I agree with both Gus and Sinful on this one, I agree with Gus because let's face it, the world is full of idiots, even if the 6 year old kid is a nice little dude and behaves himself, some brat could take his little toy and murder all the people in the world (okay I exaggerated) but we should remember that things can get REALLY bad in a matter or mins. Even seconds. So Yeah I agree with the rules and the way it was handled a little bit.

But I do agree with Sinful about the punishment, the punishment that the boy suffered is way to harsh, the thing that Sinful mentioned could be the best solution to that problem and yet, people over in the school board think it is appropiate.

BTW the mother response of " My son often wears a suit with a bow whatever" and trying to use that as an example of good "behaviour" is a little biased on my opinion. We can't know for sure if a person it's good or bad just by the way they are dressing. (and yes im aware that he is 6 year old)

But hey, this world is messed up, anything can happen.
 
Jul 25, 2009
48
0
I thiought he'd brought an army knife type thing, not that spork, as Doug mentions.

if it was an army knife then I might understand where school board is coming from. I actually see myself a little in this kid. When I was about 7 I was a cub scout and I too got my first swiss army knife. I was sooo excited about it. I carried it everywhere. but after the incident in my last post (swearing in school) I didnt want to even chance getting in trouble (eventhough i always palmed extra candy from the prize box:rolleyes:). And my Dad taught me how to use it proparly. So I never took it to schools, airports, police stations, gov. buildings (my Dads' an artist and i used to drive with him to the pentagon and help him deliver his pictures to the...I think the gift shop)

And a knife pails in compairson to my friend who had an actual gernade without explosives in it *and* brought it with him whenever we played army or something.
 
The problem with this is the same problem with a lot of rules nowadays: failure to use common sense. Really, some six year isn't going to whip out that Cub scout knife and pull a school "knifing." They should realize that the kid had no harmful intent, give the kid a slap on the wrist and tell him not to do it again. Problem solved.
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
The problem with this is the same problem with a lot of rules nowadays: failure to use common sense. Really, some six year isn't going to whip out that Cub scout knife and pull a school "knifing." They should realize that the kid had no harmful intent, give the kid a slap on the wrist and tell him not to do it again. Problem solved.

I really don't think that would be responsible. Didn't you read the article i originally linked to?

It's about two ten year olds who murdered a smaller child. How do you just 'realize' that? Everyone should be under the law, regardless of age.

Kids need discipline.

Bring out the cameras.

The Walls.

The Firemen.

The mechanical hounds.

And Big Brother.

Gus
 
I really don't think that would be responsible. Didn't you read the article i originally linked to?

It's about two ten year olds who murdered a smaller child. How do you just 'realize' that? Everyone should be under the law, regardless of age.

Kids need discipline.

Bring out the cameras.

The Walls.

The Firemen.

The mechanical hounds.

And Big Brother.

Gus

"They had planned... from the outset... to go and kill a young boy."
The child killers in this article were very different from the boy with the cub scout knife.
The boy that brought the pocket knife to school obviously had no criminal intent. This is evident from the article. What will suspending the kid for 45 days accomplish? As I said, a simple slap on the wrist and telling him not to do it again would suffice. And yes I agree kids need discipline, but this is ridiculous.
 
Jan 13, 2008
1,137
0
There is a difference between a spork and an army knife, but I see what you've got there.
From the article...

Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school.
(emphasis mine)

I agree that the teacher/principle needed to intervene, despite the intentions of the child. While the child may not have had any ill-intent, who knows what would happen were the device (which could most definitely be used as a weapon, considering it is also a knife) to get into the hands of another child (considering how eager the kid was to show it to other kids, the chances of another child getting a hold of it is pretty high). For this reason, the no-tolerance policy against such a (potential) weapon makes sense (remove the weapon -- reduce the likelihood of such a weapon being used to harm another child, whether on purpose or not).

However, the punishment definitely does not fit the crime. And because of the overblown punishment, and the parents' subsequent reaction, the kid doesn't even think he did anything wrong.

It seems like a case where all parties are partially to blame for what happened/how things turned out. Overall, a sad outcome for the child.
 
Dec 16, 2008
199
0
29
Austin, TX
I agree with the zero-tolerance rule, but the punishment for what he did is stupid. He should be punished, but if they just made him walk down to the office and wait for a bit, he would probably feel bad enough to know not to do it again.
And at cm763:
The only thing is that, most probably, the utensil was plastic, which means curved top (no point) and some minor, unshapened serrations on the edge. Honestly, a sharpened pencil is more dangerous than that. Heck, my friend got stabbed in the side with a pencil, like actually stabbed. He had to go to the hospital I believe.
I mean, most anything could technically be used as a weapon, as long as you apply enough force, so where do we draw the line?
 
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