How do you get disappointed with the method?

[Sherlock]

I'll state something right off the bat, there are effects that are indeed impractical and do not suit your needs.

However, I read quite a few posts within my time joining and people talking about being disappointed with the method. How does that happen, maybe it's not practical enough for you but the method itself is nearly always fine.

What you see is what your specs will see, so how does something like that disappoint you? Because you have no audience management? No presentation or real script to work on your movements?

Come on now people, especially those talking about the harbor change. Yes some people can't use it because of their environments but look at flicker from D. Mckenzie. I see that move quite often from other magicians now in front of real audiences and that is quite angle sensitive.

Don't be disappointed with something because it isn't what you thought or because god forbid you actually have to try at not ending 100% clean.

Rant=Done.

There are exceptions to every rule, I know this.

 

[wZEnigma]

I hate when someone sees an effect trailer and they think it's amazing, then whine because the method is obvious.

Well, you fell for it. And you're the magician.

Your audience sees what you saw. And it's just as effective. Buy for the effect, not the method.

Who cares if it's a gimmick? OH NO!!! And its not a card trick??? OMG!!! Idk if i can do dat itz not a card trik

Wow.

Good post.

Ian

 

[scarecrow1]

lolz, dis kard trix iz retarded!!!!! no 1 can do diz crap!!!!!

Good post Sherlock, just need to remind everybody of that.

 

[D ICE R]

There is something to be said about thse people who discredit something because of the method. It is not the method that makes the effect it is you. On a tangential matter I dislike when on the add copy says something like no force completely free choice. Whilst this is a good selling point when did the force become such a bad method.

I personally know a lot of magicians who always riffle force cards, even when they are not forcing cards. The do this so it seems like when they are forcing cards it does not feel any different as to when they are selecting cards or having them forced on them. Having the card signed is more of a selling point than if the card can be freely selected, in my opinion.

The biggest thing that I have is when ad copies say something especially in mentalsim like no one ahead. One ahead in theory is a great method however it is a terrible method if it is left alone with no presentation. But by adding additional methods of forcing cold reading and things of that nature can really sell the idea that one ahead could not be used.

So in summary you should not buy something because the method has something or doesn't use it. These methods have stood the test of time for a reason.

 

[visualartist]

I'll state something right off the bat, there are effects that are indeed impractical and do not suit your needs.

However, I read quite a few posts within my time joining and people talking about being disappointed with the method. How does that happen, maybe it's not practical enough for you but the method itself is nearly always fine.

What you see is what your specs will see, so how does something like that disappoint you? Because you have no audience management? No presentation or real script to work on your movements?

Come on now people, especially those talking about the harbor change. Yes some people can't use it because of their environments but look at flicker from D. Mckenzie. I see that move quite often from other magicians now in front of real audiences and that is quite angle sensitive.

Don't be disappointed with something because it isn't what you thought or because god forbid you actually have to try at not ending 100% clean.

Rant=Done.

There are exceptions to every rule, I know this.

Ive asked myself the same thing.
Most times,ive noticed,people say they are dissapointed with the method is because they are lazy. It requires actual work!(omg!). And magicians these days are lazy.
Why do you think everyone always asks for impromptu or gimmickless material(or solely card effects)? They are easier to handle.

 

[Austin Fields]

My theory behind this, is advertisement.

It's that simple, people are trained to want newer and better things, all the time. That's what the website says they should want, and they advertise the "most devious method/effect"

The websites are promoting this type of behavior, as long as it sells, there will be no end.

~Beans

 

[Austin Fields]

Ive asked myself the same thing.
Most times,ive noticed,people say they are dissapointed with the method is because they are lazy. It requires actual work!(omg!). And magicians these days are lazy.
Why do you think everyone always asks for impromptu or gimmickless material(or solely card effects)? They are easier to handle.

Small argument here, I know you started the put the cards down thread and all, but implying that card handlers are lazy is too far. Your observations of the young community here alone are not grounds for putting down card handlers everywhere, card magic becomes the foundation of sleight of hand for most magicians, and there are simply astonishing things one can accomplish with a deck of cards.

~Beans

 

[visualartist]

Small argument here, I know you started the put the cards down thread and all, but implying that card handlers are lazy is too far. Your observations of the young community here alone are not grounds for putting down card handlers everywhere, card magic becomes the foundation of sleight of hand for most magicians, and there are simply astonishing things one can accomplish with a deck of cards.

~Beans

Ive had many hard handlers admit to me,even personally,that they only do card effects or impromptu card effects because of those very reasons. Im with the young community far outside this place. Clubs and such.
Is laziness the only reason? no. Sometimes its also because they are scared to get their hands dirty. Figuratively of course.
When the method is something outlandish to some(more than a sleight) they get scared,too lazy,etc.
And I actually didnt put down card handlers everwhere. Said no such thing.

 

[Nino]

Great post Sherlock.

To me if they don't like the method than they don't deserve to perform it. But than again the magican does count for something. It like putting pratice into something you don't like. Its really hard to do that because you don't have the passion for it. Also they have one reason or the other to not like the method. Either is too angle senstive or impartical to perform it. I would say there's a limit, but some magicans won't pratice the effect because they can't perform it surrounded.

So the final line is the certain magican doesn't like the method than that their choice.

 

[Luis Vega]

Ex-ile is a great trick but the method is so impractical that I have only used once... that how I got dissapointed for the method

 

[visualartist]

Ex-ile is a great trick but the method is so impractical that I have only used once... that how I got dissapointed for the method

Its one of those tricks that you actually plan on performing.

I do it at gigs or planned situations only with great success.

 

[hector_cervantes]

Ive had many hard handlers admit to me,even personally,that they only do card effects or impromptu card effects because of those very reasons. Im with the young community far outside this place. Clubs and such.
Is laziness the only reason? no. Sometimes its also because they are scared to get their hands dirty. Figuratively of course.
When the method is something outlandish to some(more than a sleight) they get scared,too lazy,etc.
And I actually didnt put down card handlers everwhere. Said no such thing.

ok your right many people just don't like the setup or the "no 100%" ending but again you got to admit there is some real impractical material out there that even though you give in the time to either put the gimmick together or work on the clean up you realize you will not perform the effect in the near future example TNR from matheu, then theres the people who just don't want to hassel with an effect for example electric touch, the gimmick really is a hassel to carry around, so to some people that would be a method FAIL. there two ways a method can leave you dissapointed, because of the time or effort it takes to make, carry or clean up and then the method which really cant be used.

 

[visualartist]

ok your right many people just don't like the setup or the "no 100%" ending but again you got to admit there is some real impractical material out there that even though you give in the time to either put the gimmick together or work on the clean up you realize you will not perform the effect in the near future example TNR from matheu, then theres the people who just don't want to hassel with an effect for example electric touch, the gimmick really is a hassel to carry around, so to some people that would be a method FAIL. there two ways a method can leave you dissapointed, because of the time or effort it takes to make, carry or clean up and then the method which really cant be used.

Oh of course. I totally agree with you on those crazy impractical ones. But the thread starter is talking about the effects that arent terrible in practical terms yet some people still complain on the "work". The ones that almost want everything done for them

 

[Luis Vega]

Its one of those tricks that you actually plan on performing.

I do it at gigs or planned situations only with great success.

sorry but I don´t perform the way you do...usually I do table-hopping and ex-ile is not useful in those situations...

also in gigs is not really useful...because the setup only last like 5 minutes and then is useless..

 

[hector_cervantes]

gigs are no prob for exile I mean you can get 5 minutes, a lot of the times, and I mean your not going to perform an exile all nighter 2 times is enough for it to be a night reputation maker.

 

[Luis Vega]

gigs are no prob for exile I mean you can get 5 minutes, a lot of the times, and I mean your not going to perform an exile all nighter 2 times is enough for it to be a night reputation maker.

first of all...have you bought exile?

second...the setup can´t be done in my situations...usually I´m surrounded

and yes... doing table-hopping requires that you have a set prepared and easy to setup again for the next table...sometime you do that set at least 20-30 times because is different tables or groups

 

[Sherlock]

Is TnR impractical for the walkaround performer, yes. However, the reason no one actually uses it is because there are simply better ones out there. VDP, my favorite TNR type of effect does what TnR does yet a hundred times better but it's impractical for walk around gigs.

I will say this though, for a private gig VDP is imo the best possible torn and restored for any audience members. They see the torn card as it goes into their hand, yet it changes.

Remember, sometimes there are simply better methods for practicality and simply better looking effects period. I don't bother looking for the cleanest effects as it simply has no real effect on me. I've done quite a bit of performing now for someone my age, and it just becomes habit to ditch or get rid of something that isn't needed.

To many people are afraid of failing and getting caught. It's not that big of a deal, try your hardest not to get caught but if it happens then come up with a clever excuse or run away quickly.

 

[Austin Fields]

To many people are afraid of failing and getting caught. It's not that big of a deal, try your hardest not to get caught but if it happens then come up with a clever excuse or run away quickly.

Many people that are afraid of doing this are people that haven't messed up in front of an audience before. I 100% agree with you, when you mess up, don't stand there like (this) but say, oh that didn't work here let's try... or something of the sort, it's surprisingly easy and people usually laugh off that you've messed something up, sometimes you can even just make a joke out of the whole thing.

@Visual Artist,

Most times,ive noticed,people say they are dissapointed with the method is because they are lazy. It requires actual work!(omg!). And magicians these days are lazy.
Why do you think everyone always asks for impromptu or gimmickless material(or solely card effects)? They are easier to handle.

yes, your post did imply that card-only workers are lazy. Tricks like Osh Nosh B'gosh and several Daniel Madison effects are hardly "clean" and require misdirection as much as any other type of magic. (not to say they are card only workers/nor the only ones with effects like these) Many accomplished sleight of hand artists effects are very "dirty" with or without cards.
Also, noting that your in clubs with young members still doesn't give you credibility to generalize card workers everywhere as lazy.

~Beans

 

[tman93]

Hey guys Just thought I'd drop in and give my two cents. I completely agree with you all about magicians who will immediately look down upon an effect or method because it is not how their mind had conceived the original workings. But in a second sense, I feel that it is appropriate to be disappointed with an effect because it is ill-constructed/unworkable. There's no need to name any effects of this type. I think we as magicians have all come across a trick which is truly ill-constructed/unworkable. Now I'm not talking about the type of effect that just takes time and effort to work on and preform (as some magicians do not do simply because it seems too complicated), but rather the effects which are truly incapable of being realistic or achievable in real life performance. Great discussion!

-Tyler

 

[RealityOne]

Every effect has limitations. Whether it requires a gimmick, complicated slight of hand, certain angles, advanced set-up or ending dirty. Unfortunately, the advertisements don't highlight the limitations but rather highlight the positive attributes (which often include the fact that they don't have certain limitations). Often the "teaser" footage is done in a way that minimizes the limitations (which is often necessary to prevent magicians figuring out the effect on their own).

Reading reviews often helps you understand the negatives of an effect and whether it will work for you. I think that people become disappointed when they buy an effect and the effect has limitations that the purchaser did not anticipate.

That being said, I think that anyone who is disappointed because the method is too simple or takes too much practice, or they don't like the gimmick, needs to find another hobby. As others have said, your spectators don't see the method (at least if you have practiced enough) they only see the effect.