"That's not Magic! Your just good with cards!"

[CorbinB]

"Display of Ability
EXCESSIVE vanity proves the undoing of many experts. The temptation to show off is great. He has become a past master in his profession. He can laugh at luck and defy the law of chance. His fortune is literally at his finger ends, yet he must never admit his skill or grow chesty over his ability. It requires the philosophy of the stoic to possess any great superiority and refrain from boasting to friend or foe. He must be content to rank with the common herd. In short, the professional player must never slop over. One single display of dexterity and his usefulness is past in that particular company, and the reputation is liable to precede him in many another." S.W. Erdnase
The above quote is from Erdnase's Expert at the card table. I'm aware this was written with card cheats in mind but the more I think about the more this also seems to apply to magic aswell. People have told me after a performance that my magic is not real because I am simply "good with cards". People have said this because I do a simple fan or riffle shuffle...So I'm wondering how I can prevent this. I mean fans arent necessary however a riffle shuffle is almost essential. Has this happened to any of you? How do you prevent it or respond to it? Thank you.

 

[RDChopper]

It depends on the presentation or the gestures you use while performing, for example, Im a pretty outgoing funny guy, and during the trick I usually joke and things of the like.

Right when Im about to perform the "magic" I become really really serious, I put my hand above and everybody is silent ( this is a sign that Im doing ok) they are silent because they are about to witness the moment in wich the "magic" happens, and obviously they don't want to miss it.

So let's say that they took a card, you lost it in the pack, shuffled it and the presented a indiferent card, right there I would say "give me your hand", then I would stop smiling, I would put the "indiferent" card on their hand, take a deep breath (by this moment they are already silent) put my hand on top of the card, press firmly and act as if SOMETHING is really happening.

It's all acting.

Sometimes I even add this comment :

" I know this sounds kind of silly and the movement of my hand really looks weird, but trust me, you are going to like this"

With that I'm not directly saying that my movement or the wave of my hand is going to cause the magic, if it would have been directly I would have said "look if I wave my hand the magic happens" something along those lines. The power of saying it indirectly leaves them with the opportunity of convicing themselves that "something" really is going on.

I hope that made sense.

 

[houchini]

It depends on the presentation or the gestures you use while performing, for example, Im a pretty outgoing funny guy, and during the trick I usually joke and things of the like.

Right when Im about to perform the "magic" I become really really serious, I put my hand above and everybody is silent ( this is a sign that Im doing ok) they are silent because they are about to witness the moment in wich the "magic" happens, and obviously they don't want to miss it.

So let's say that they took a card, you lost it in the pack, shuffled it and the presented a indiferent card, right there I would say "give me your hand", then I would stop smiling, I would put the "indiferent" card on their hand, take a deep breath (by this moment they are already silent) put my hand on top of the card, press firmly and act as if SOMETHING is really happening.

It's all acting.

Sometimes I even add this comment :

" I know this sounds kind of silly and the movement of my hand really looks weird, but trust me, you are going to like this"

With that I'm not directly saying that my movement or the wave of my hand is going to cause the magic, if it would have been directly I would have said "look if I wave my hand the magic happens" something along those lines. The power of saying it indirectly leaves them with the opportunity of convicing themselves that "something" really is going on.

I hope that made sense.

So strange that's exactly how I act when I perform magic ! Funny, esay going, but when the magic happens...Now THAT's serious...so am I !

 

[jprace]

Kozmo talks about this a lot: what's magic and what is simply "good with cards."

Is producing four aces magic? Or is it a feat of skill? We both agree it's just "good with cards." Your magic needs some kind of motivation, and one of the only motivations for producing four aces is to go into your next trick...

Kids are able to see magic at its best. When a kid sees four aces appear, is that magic to them? Probably not. But when a coin vanishes and appears, that is. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but let's take my trick Orbit for example. The magic is applied to an everyday life situation, and it's something everyone can relate to. They understand the meaning of the trick.

 

[James Wise Magic]

This is my 4th year into magic and I think I've only had someone say that to me 1 time and that's when I first started. It's just your performance.
How you talk, move, and present yourself can change what people say and do. If you're making it look like a cool card flourishy where it's all flashy then it could come off as "just good with cards".

 

[Luis Vega]

I usually like to give some flashyness (does that word exists?) in my magic, that means some beautifuls DL, some nice shuffle, some good looking cuts...but aside from that when magic happens...I try to do it as motionless as possible, per example in an ACR when the card "jumps to the top" it looks like nothing has happened...


then BAM!!!, I blow their minds!!...

aside from that, I think I am a decent performer, everyone is having a good time and at the end they still believe I have some kind of power...I do it by having a combination of several things, like talking to them as if they were my friends, calling them by their names, touch them like in the shoulders and in the women in their hands.

the patter is also important...I don´t present the tricks with stupid patter like most magicians I know (when I say magicians I know, I mean magicians I have actually met in person and see them perform) things like "this card is a mouse"....WTF?!!! neither I present it as a cheating demostration or cards games...

also the way I dress is important and the way you talk...the presentation involves so many things..and I very lazy to put them all here

 

[Mat La Vore]

...How do you prevent it or respond to it? Thank you.

Good topic.

Personally, I try to not use any flourishes and I try to keep my handling simple. I don't do anything fancy.

I do see the benefit of it though, which is to set yourself apart from Uncle Joe doing card tricks, but I'd really rather make that distinction with my actual magic as opposed to some fancy flourishes before I've even done anything. If the magic is strong, fancy cuts and shuffles aren't going to do anything more but project skill. I'm not interested in coming across as someone who is skilled though. I'm interested in coming across as though, even though I've been fair and simple, something amazing and magical has still happened.

I think it all depends on what you want to project. I love that everyone has a different style, and I enjoy watching different cardworkers with different styles work.

I think the most important thing to do, with this topic in mind, is to put thought into your style. When you perform magic with cards, what is it you want to project? Is everything you're doing working toward that? Do you want your audience to think you're "good with cards"? Is that an advantage or disadvantage to how and what you perform?

 

[visualartist]

Ill give you a hint.
Its not about whether or not you use fans or fancy cuts that will make them say that.

 

[Luis Vega]

or you can do magic with other things besides cards...so nobody can call you out about the fancy card moves....

 

[Mat La Vore]

or you can do magic with other things besides cards...so nobody can call you out about the fancy card moves....

I think the crux of the topic assumes you're performing with cards...

 

[Riffleactionpalm]

It isn't about chance, or any BS about that.

It is about your character. Who are you as a performer?

Are your presentations skill based or magic based?

Pick a character and stick with it for a while, especially while at school.

Also, please for God's sake do NOT take Brad Christian's advice where he advises people to say that they visited some tribe way the hell in Africa and some local tribes taught you the satanic powers of magic.

Oh dear God!!!!

To be honest with you, my character, for my age, fits me really well... I am a student of the arts. Obviously that will fit any trick out there because I am a student of the arts, I study under some of the greatest thinkers in the art of conjuring and sleight of hand. If I mess up a trick, who cares? P.S. You would actually want your character to refer to yourself in various ways. If you are a 16 year old who portrays himself as a world renowned card cheat, you probably will not get very far, since obviously you cant even hit the blackjack tables. I just learned it.. You are a student.. take advantage of that. I know that I sure do. I also would possibly recommending branching away from the T11 forums. It may help you in your studies of magic, however, I would not highly recommend that since it is against the law, and someone will take down your IP address so that you will never be allowed back into the wonderful community of T11 magic underground epicenter.

 

[CorbinB]

Yeah I hate "E" patter... "A buddhist monk granted me the ability to change cards..."

 

[Sidekick]

I have some tips I have gathered from reading loads of books on showmanship and before I came into magic I studied Theater and its presentations etc etc

If you are asking some one if they want to some magic:
NEVER say: Hey there Do you want to see a magic TRICK
This makes the spectator immediately think that its sleight of hand and has some ingenious method. Also never mention terms that we use as magicians I have seen a couple of times performers say:
" This is not a force you really have a choice of any card"
Why? Well the spectator at the back of there minds know that there is a method behind this and by you saying force or control, the spectators will trace it back and A) Think that you said under you breath This is a force (it has happened) or B) think you are lying (which you are, but they dont need to know)
No one is natural, every on puts naturalness know in order to practice naturalness in your moves I have used this method in all my routines.

-Start by doing your routine twice in front of a mirror (with all your sleights and patter)

-Then do your routine with no sleight of hand (even if you lose your chosen card or what ever) TWICE try and keep a mental note of differences between your the two things you did ( Sleight and no sleight)

for example if you are doing the classic pass you then just cover the deck for a few seconds.

When you are doing the no sleight version you are bound to be natural when you make your notes transfer you handling to where you can put it in the Sleight version.

I hope I helped, But yeah patter, presentation is really important, it can take YEARS of practice.

Yeah I hate "E" patter... "A buddhist monk granted me the ability to change cards..."

This is part of the illusion you are giving the spectators the E patter yeah is a bit to far fetched by I think patter something like
I got these cards in singapore in a the Las vegas of asia I then left after a bad luck streak and found these outside and went back in and won a grand.

This was something of the top of my head, in my opinion this would be idle for a routine including "luck" or whatever

 

[CorbinB]

The must helpful post so far. Thanks dude.