Hey I am 16 and I am putting out Lecture notes and a DVD...Cool huh?

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if you are between the ages of 11-21 you have no authority in putting out lecture notes or a DVD for any reason whatsoever? HAHA well what if your 10 can you release lecture notes and a dvd then? So 11-21 is the exact age huh? I dident realize there was an age law for magic. Well I'm 22, but I guess Ill have to show you my ID..

Some will take this seriously and others will not..

The avarage age group in which people have been putting stuff out there is between those ages. Before that age group has not been a problem...maybe becuase there is still a desire to JUST perform tricks for people and not to TRY and get famous or make money...mmmm

Justin N. Miller
 
Joshua Jay, one of my heroes in magic, published a BOOK at SEVENTEEN.

What irks me isn't the fact that these people releasing notes and DVDs and young... it's the fact that they call it groundbreaking, when it isn't. I mean, if it truly is very original and revolutionary, why shouldn't we let them publish it?

It's when the things they produce are total crap, yet advertise it as God's Miracles... THEN we should be angry.

Hey, these youths want to feel good. It DOES feel good to be able to show everyone something you created, original or not. When you hold a set of notes in your hands that YOU wrote, you feel a sense of accomplishment. Can we blame them?

Heck no! I am a youth myself at 17 years old, and I myself dream of becoming big in magic. In fact, I am writing a set of notes now! I am not going to sell it, neither am I going to claim my notes are revolutionary. In fact, it's full of tricks that aren't very original, and are simply variations of tricks already in the market, that I adapted for my own use.

What are you going to do? Bash me? Sure, go ahead.

What I mean is, you shouldn't put something out and claim it's really new and incredible, when it ISN'T. If it's just ideas or variations, and you wish to publish it... publish it under that advertisement of "just my take on some tricks". David Stone's DVD, The Real Secrets of Magic, was proclaimed "Best Magic DVD of 2006" by Genii Magazine, yet the tricks in there aren't even his. Go, go watch it. He himself, right at the beginning, states that he isn't a magic creator, and the tricks here aren't "entirely his", but simply adapted to fit his working situation of restaurants and parties.

But that's the thing: He doesn't claim the tricks to be new! We accept that honesty, I watched it and I love it! Some of his card tricks are pretty simple and unoriginal, but hey! He admits and accepts it, and that's why it's one of my favorite DVDs.

- harapan. magic!

Once again if you read above you would see that there are EXCEPTIONS to the rule... Joshua is one of them and a very dear friend. I was with Joshua as he and I were growing up in magic!
 
This as gone on long enough. Children (11-21) of magic please listen up as this is directed to you. I first met Calvin Lauber at The Twin City Magic convention this past year. Myself and Danny Garcia really took a concentrated interest in this young man. Calvin has some great chops, not the best or even close to that but a good start in sleight of hand magic. He showed myself and Danny some neat stuff, once again not ground-breaking magic but some neat stuff. The convention ends and about 2 months later or so I received in my e-mail Calvin's lecture notes. My first reaction was that of..WHAT? I then found out that Calvin was going to be releasing a DVD called Traverse where apparently he had some "ground-breaking" new way of making four coins travel in a Matrix style routine..nothing could be further from the truth. Hence the latest MAGIC magazine and Peter Duffie's review of Calvin's DVD.

Now I must point out right away that Calvin and I are still friends and we have had numerous conversations about what I am writing and I am happy to say that Calvin has taken mine and Garcia's advice to heart and he has PULLED this DVD and will not be releasing any further material until he has approximated enough experience and war wounds in the line of duty.

Which is why I am writing this lengthy essay. Like Calvin there are a plethora of young men out there that think that they can just put "lecture notes" together, or slap a DVD together using a Nero-esque type program and start getting "'famous" in the world of magic when in reality THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW TO BE A REAL MAGICIAN!

You young guys think that just because you have this "creative brain" that whatever comes out of it MUST be ORIGINAL! Are you kidding me? You guys spend more time on how to "get Stuff" that is not even yours to begin with, out in the magic buffet of what we call the market, and try and sell people that you are some creative genius because you figured out a way to make a sharpie vanish or have a coin travel from one side of the table to another.

Your generation is filled with pride. And you think that just because you have some good chops you have the right to put together lecture notes?

Do you not understand that the only reason someone is allowed to lecture or put out lecture notes is because they are considered a master at that subject or field.

How amazingly ridiculous would it be if a student who had just started to attend med school his FIRST week he decided that YOU were the one he was going to try his NEW operating technique on..no thanks!

Bottom line is this... I do not care how long you have been in magic, how much "passion" you have for the art, how many times you have fooled you family with your amazing ability to force a card, if you are between the ages of 11-21 you have no authority in putting out lecture notes or a DVD for any reason whatsoever. You have not had enough experience, enough times of getting slammed by REAL PAYING audience members, and enough jam sessions where your fellow peers says "that was horrible". I am sick and tired of you young guys thinking you have something that the rest of us do not have at your young age...the reality is you are deceived and unless you take off your rose colored glasses you will only end up hurting yourself and hindering your own advancement in this wonderful art of ours. You are the future of magic so get your acts together and and stop "trying" to make yourself famous. I will tell you what I have told all of my students. If you try and get famous you will ultimately fail, but if you really do have the chops, the presence, the presentation, and the persona..it will happen naturally. I am not saying just sit back and relax if you are gifted, but work with the grace that has been given to you to complete the desired outcome.

But I would not be reporting the full facts if I did not also take shot at the magic companies that are enabling you to "think you are the next David Blaine"
Shame on you as well, I understand that part of show is business, but at what cost? The life force of our young up and coming magicians. You also need to stop this and start screening your intake more regularly.

Now I know I will get a ton of flack from both sides..thats OK I expect it.

"Wisdom went out looking for those to touch but alas all have hid from her..do not worry ignorance is secure in his plundering".

I write this to those of you who actually care about the future of our art young and old..it is time to take a stand against the pollution that is corrupting the minds of our future in magic.
If you desire to lecture someday to the rest of us then do what we have all done..worked!

Justin N. Miller

EDIT:: Its all good.
thanks justin
 
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Aug 31, 2007
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Mr Miller:

The main point of my post wasn't Mr. Jay. I was simply stating another exception to the rule.

I hope you will coment on whatever comes after the first sentence of my previous post.

- harapan. magic!
 
Justin,
Did you have to use my freaking name?
I know that what i did wasn't the best idea, and i do regret it.
I told you that.
so for this situation, i dint think i would be a valid example for this, i dint claim
my products to be ground shaking, and i dint plan on releasing anything... probably never again.
thanks,
Calvin Lauber


Calvin bro,
I really struggled with this idea of not using your name and I even Called Danny to ask him what he thought. In the long run I decided to use it to show your mistakes but to ultimately show your great understanding of this at your age and the fact you took everything down and regretted what you did..that shows volumes bro..just for the record i do not AGREE with EVERYTHING peter said. You are going to go far bro, because you have attained something that Most of these other guys your age will never attain. Do not get defensive on this matter..you have come out of this like a champ..you should be very proud in the decision you have made..it was the best one.

And for you to say you might NEVER come out with something..dude shush!

listen TO ME VERY CLOSELY you have what it takes to make it I have told you that over and over..just let it play out and you will see.

I really do care about you that is why I wrote this..for you!

Justin N. Miller
 
Calvin bro,
I really struggled with this idea of not using your name and I even Called Danny to ask him what he thought. In the long run I decided to use it to show your mistakes but to ultimately show your great understanding of this at your age and the fact you took everything down and regretted what you did..that shows volumes bro..just for the record i do not AGREE with EVERYTHING peter said. You are going to go far bro, because you have attained something that Most of these other guys your age will never attain. Do not get defensive on this matter..you have come out of this like a champ..you should be very proud in the decision you have made..it was the best one.

And for you to say you might NEVER come out with something..dude shush!

listen TO ME VERY CLOSELY you have what it takes to make it I have told you that over and over..just let it play out and you will see.

I really do care about you that is why I wrote this..for you!

Justin N. Miller


Yeah dude i get ya, thanks.
Misunderstood your post a little i guess.
I just dont know if im the best example, as i never did it for fame, but
since i am in that age group, and i did realease some meterial, i understand what u mean.
But thanks man, ill take your advice and keep working at my stuff,
Nice talking to ya again.

Calvin Lauber
 
Sep 1, 2007
405
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Justin: your point about pride is well taken. As shown by some of the responses, people can quickly take offense to someone pointing out that a certain maturity is needed to involve oneself in certain aspects of our art. I do not mean years, as you obviously used a range as a representation of a period where growth is supposed to be happening. I mean real world experience. Maybe five, maybe ten years. Of working hard and taking your licks. There will be nights were everything goes swell. There will be other nights when everything goes wrong, and you feel like never showing your face at that particular establishment ever again. People need to understand that J.M. is not taking a stab at your age. That is not the point, the point is experience. Yes, many of us may be talented. And we may practice until the wee hours of the night, until we see ourselves in mirrors, cameras and in front of loved ones doing a trick flawlessly. Then we go out, and as mentioned above we get the drunken idiot that starts by saying "oh yeah, i've seen this one before" and continues by informing everyone about how he saw you control the card to the top, or put it down on the table, or ever better: "yeah yeah, I can tell you're holding two cards." What do you do then? we may have lines practiced to say to this kind of people. We may know exactly what to do. But how does it feel? it is different every time. And the things they say may be harsher every time. You won't always get someone who says: "you need to work on that man", you may get the dude that straight up tells you: "that kind of sucked man, my little brother does that trick and your version is garbage." And yeah, we can all say that we know how to deal with it, how to take it, but if you have so much pride about somebody telling us that we need experience (and damn that is valuable advise) how are we not going to have pride about what we do and perhaps be personally offended when someone does not appreciate it? well, we find out how to manage with experience. Yeah one person may say something and you deal with it with professionalism. But what about 3 people, or 7 or 10? Lets get out there, lets practice and perform, but all Justin was saying is this: it takes time (for most of us, baring the exceptions) for us to be masters of every aspect of our art: slights, patter, audience management, set ups, control over nerves, energy charisma, etc. There are many components, and some of those components can only be practiced by performing. You know how you practiced that dl for hours before showing it to anyone? We have to "practice" performing in front of different audiences the same amount of time if not more for us to gain the experience needed to master our art.

Juan M.
 
bravo to justin for saying somthing that needs to be said by someone who is well respected.

calvin id thank justin for bring your name up, after reading the review in magic mag, i would have all but blacklisted anything you ever did, as the claims you made with no research or experience were not good.... that said justins post show you learned from your mistake and that means ALOT.

guys the truth hurts, but thats just what it is
 
Sep 3, 2007
229
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Canada, Quebec
if you are between the ages of 11-21 you have no authority in putting out lecture notes or a DVD for any reason whatsoever? HAHA well what if your 10 can you release lecture notes and a dvd then? So 11-21 is the exact age huh? I dident realize there was an age law for magic. Well I'm 22, but I guess Ill have to show you my ID..

That was pretty funny (was it?); But I guess you should realize that Mr. Miller didn't write the whole thread just to say "11-21 can't release lecture notes", but rather he was saying that 11-21 is the group of people, who generally seem to lack of experience in order to release any lecture notes or dvd. Again, there is some exceptions to that. But we are talking about "generally", ok?

True, even a 22, 35 or 40 years old guy may not have enough experience in magic either.

But imagine, if you are 22, 35 or 40 years old, will you just go release a friggin' lecture notes or a dvd on things that is not even new?

Well, no.
And that's because you know that these stuff might have been invented way before you 've thought about it! And being 22, 35 or 40, you tend to realize it easier than the people at 11-21 (again, generally.)

In my opinion, to create a new effect in magic, one really needs to read and watch alot of magics in order to know what 've been done and what has not been done. And now, THAT is called EXPERIENCES.
 
I respect your opinion as a professional, I am only 17.

Just getting some key statements out of the way early. I really wish you would have approached this "warning" a little better. In order for the future of art to flourish, you need to nurture it. Constructive crticism is ok, but the way you put it is borderline bashing a whole age group. I suppose I am slightly biased since I am part of the age group but everyone who isn't part of it is slightly biased the other direction. Just like in any art, if you shut down the next generation with too much "constructive criticism" the art will not emerge as strongly the next generation. I personally both understand and agree (not entirely, but for the most part) with what you said, but others may not understand and may take offense to the way you put it. So if you don't have a problem taking advice from someone my age, please consider what I said.

As for your message: I am pretty much on par with the rest of the thread. people that agegroup generally shouldn't release material at that point, with few exceptions. If something is truly, truly groundbreaking, who cares what age the creator was?

Trent
 
i respect you guys are young but in the real world outside of school, people don;t polish words and thougths to spare your feelings. if justin said anyl ess then he did, that would only be another disservice to you.
 
Ya, you are right, people don't sugar coat stuff in the real world, and alot underage people know that. Alot of the older generation is too thick headed to talk to underage kids like human beings, but you don't see any generalizations about the older generation here. Alot of kids are inexperienced but all I am saying is he left out the other side. There are alot of inexpereinced older magiacians out there.
 
that is very true, im 25 and inexpereinced. the fact of the matter is however the younger folks tend to be the quickest to do these things. i think this is partly older folks have more responsabilitys to family work ect ect and don;t put time into things unless they see a real value in it. on the flip side younger folks have less inhibitions and high drive, that can be a good thing but it can also get one into trouble.
 
Sep 1, 2007
479
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I agree with the post but disagree. ehh. I could take it as bad and think Justin is a douche bag from now on or stick up for him while he's dissing everyone in a certain age group. Idk.
 
Oct 28, 2007
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Even though I don't like Justin Miller's stuff I am totally with him in this idea. Because kids think they are worth more than they really are (which is most of the times not much) is why are community looks they way it looks right now. People that ARE worth more than average are smart enough to realise it's not enough. all those kids needed this lil whack to bring em back to reality. I'm pretty much sick of seeing kids who sat and thought one day about how to make money easily reaching the conclusion that the best way to do it is release a crappy magic DVD with absolutely no quality stuff in it.

-Someone Who Is Mentally Challanged
 
I agree with the post but disagree. ehh. I could take it as bad and think Justin is a douche bag from now on or stick up for him while he's dissing everyone in a certain age group. Idk.

I do believe I said, some people may not understand and take offense to the way you said it.

Case in point, the above comment.
 
Sep 1, 2007
479
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I do believe I said, some people may not understand and take offense to the way you said it.

Case in point, the above comment.

Lol i just don't have opinion about it. I could care less what he says. It's understandable that he saying what he said but I really don't care what he thinks. What I ment is that it really shouldn't matter what someone says about a certain age group when it comes to magic because it's usually not true. Sometimes it is. Only on a good day.
 

-Ty

Sep 1, 2007
248
1
Australia
*Applaudes*

I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. When people are willing to LEARN from this craft, rather than EARN from this craft, the scene will be all for the better.

I'm glad someone had the balls to say this. It was well needed.

Ty

P.S. If I were you Jussie, I'd cross-post this through as many forums as I could. Spread the word man!
 
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