Hey I am 16 and I am putting out Lecture notes and a DVD...Cool huh?

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um mm, almost ready to leave it alone. You say it was a cheap shot to mention your history, and I really did not go into any depth...but it is true history. You call that a cheap shot, yet in another thread you say you "left" E two years ago because of what was going on...little hypocrisy there. I just think it would be nice if you did not make general or blanket statements about a company that helped you quite nicely. You made your own bed.

Justin, don't wanna fight with you...but I also won't sit still when you make statements that I know you really do not want to have to try and back up.

OK, now I will try to leave it alone.

RAJ

Once again RJ twisting words to prove a point huh?
I said I left E CLOSE to 2 yrs ago because of an inner-feeling it was time to go and YES the HYPE factor was a major point in my leaving. You guys can say I was kicked out or whatever you want to save face in this debate but the fact is I LEFT not the other way around. And like I said RJ it had a lot to do with seeing certain things in my life differantly...it was time to move on. I noticed by the way that you left out the part where I said I will not talk bad about E..E has been good to me. lol.. he who forms the question wins the arguement...good one RJ..good one!

Justin N. Miller
 
Once again yes you are right, HOWEVER the in-flux of these "notes" and DVDs LATELY (did you hear that.. LATLEY) HAVE BEEN FROM KIDS.....that is a fact!

Justin N. Miller

"Yes you are right"

Thats all I wanted to hear.

I don't claim to be entirely right at all (because, and I know its been said, I agree with you for the most part) but I needed to hear you admit that others were bringing up valid points.

I do think that no matter who you are, despite your age, if your not ready just please, please keep your material off the market. Use judgement.
 
Sep 25, 2007
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! WEEEEEEEEEEE!

Are you kidding me? its freaking lecture notes. Who in their right mind cares? People are comparing it to a doctors first surgery? YO LISTEN UP! Snap out of your diluted dream world! Its a freak paper about MAGIC!!! You either have a good effect or not, its not like bad history books in public schools (all written by doctors BTW). The president of Iran is saying that the holocaust NEVER happened and hes not a teen and IS a freaking leader/president... EVERYONE can be wrong regardless of age. I know that comparison seems to be a bit of a stretch, but so is comparing magic lecture notes to a young doctors first exploratory surgery.

News flash: unlike the doctor, if the magician can't find my card, levitate, or get my signed coin into a drinking container... I won't DIE.

NOW... everyone go practice and/or take a hot girl with a nice butt to the movies... GO!
 
D

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Once again RJ twisting words to prove a point huh?
I said I left E CLOSE to 2 yrs ago because of an inner-feeling it was time to go and YES the HYPE factor was a major point in my leaving. You guys can say I was kicked out or whatever you want to save face in this debate but the fact is I LEFT not the other way around. And like I said RJ it had a lot to do with seeing certain things in my life differantly...it was time to move on. I noticed by the way that you left out the part where I said I will not talk bad about E..E has been good to me. lol.. he who forms the question wins the arguement...good one RJ..good one!

Justin N. Miller

Wow and the LOOP DVDs just came out a little while ago and the CIB DVDs are only about to come out in a few days! That means Ellusionist has been holding on to this stuff for a while! I wonder how much more stuff they have hidden from us.:p

Anyway, now that I found out you left E a while ago (I thought you were still there) where have you been? Do you work on your own, someone, or are you taking a break?
 
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! WEEEEEEEEEEE!

Are you kidding me? its freaking lecture notes. Who in their right mind cares? People are comparing it to a doctors first surgery? YO LISTEN UP! Snap out of your diluted dream world! Its a freak paper about MAGIC!!! You either have a good effect or not, its not like bad history books in public schools (all written by doctors BTW). The president of Iran is saying that the holocaust NEVER happened and hes not a teen and IS a freaking leader/president... EVERYONE can be wrong regardless of age. I know that comparison seems to be a bit of a stretch, but so is comparing magic lecture notes to a young doctors first exploratory surgery.

News flash: unlike the doctor, if the magician can't find my card, levitate, or get my signed coin into a drinking container... I won't DIE.

NOW... everyone go practice and/or take a hot girl with a nice butt to the movies... GO!

You sir, are my new best friend :) If I hear one more ridiculous comparison between magic and something totally incomparable I will have to start a new Godwin's law.
 
Just thought I'd pipe in with this fact; Ellusionist has been developing and working with Nick and Matt on these CIBs since before Stigmata was released. Really.

Now I'm leaving this thread because I don't want to get caught up in all this.

EDIT: Justin, good call. Frankly, this thread has turned into just bickering that's getting us nowhere.
 
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You know what good Idea.
I think I am done as well. I hope and pray that this will continue on without cheap shots at me or anyone else.

Justin N. Miller

Last post on this matter.

You're really leaving? You are going to start a controversial topic like this and then just leave? Honestly? Thats unbelievable. I don't think better or worse of you for it I just can't believe you would just up and disappear in the middle of the discussion. Its unfathomable.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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You're really leaving? You are going to start a controversial topic like this and then just leave? Honestly? Thats unbelievable. I don't think better or worse of you for it I just can't believe you would just up and disappear in the middle of the discussion. Its unfathomable.

In all honesty...I have this gut feeling that it would be in everyones best interest to just leave this thread alone to die. Normally, I'm not for euthinasia...but this is a completely different animal.

Shane K.
 
Sep 4, 2007
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You guys are in for a real treat..Brad Henderson should be here sometime soon. I got a wonderful post from him (sorry book) at the cafe...wait for it..wait for it..

Justin N. Miller

Oh sweet! Just so you all know, and so you will not be suprised, Brad does not like Garcia and he is not fond of Ellusionist. He is very good at creating his viewpoints as though they were all accurate. I have PMd with Brad, and he seems to be a decent guy, but he has that definite slant that he will defend to the death...sometimes with a bit of revisionist history.



RJ
 
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Sep 25, 2007
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If ANY good comes from this thread PLEASE let it be this... if you are a professional or not, male or female, 9 or 99 years old... just THINK before you post. This 12 page MESS is proof of it. This isn't about young magicians and lecture notes, its about arrogance, ignorance, and getting caught in the moment. If people would just take 10 minutes and think about all the possibilities their actions may bring, I would dare to say a large amount of unnecessary occurrences (in this case a pointless thread) would occur. This would save time, brain cells, and face... all of which are now lost by multiple people. I find it so ironic that in a post about young teens aspiring to be great (I'm 24 by the way) albeit misguided or not, that it is the actual adults that revert to childish name calling and airing of dirty laundry. How in the world are the up coming youth EVER going to mature if those they look up to haven't yet? What I am saying is not about the professionalism of any individuals art/craft... it is about the personal responsibly that we as adults have to set a good example. ESPECIALLY if we are going to talk about the next generation IN FRONT of them! My favorite part about this thread is the young adult mentioned by name in the very first post is the only person left standing that has my utmost respect!

I expected better, yet to quote Father Larry Lorenzoni:

"The average person thinks he isn't"

make sense?
 
Sep 4, 2007
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Great quote! I love that. I hate to believe that it probably applies to me also, but what the heck. I have always heard that the nice thing about being average is that you don't suck at whatever it is, and people do not have too high of expectations of you.

Thanks,

RJ
 
I am not concerned whether or not the magic world is diluted with low quality products released by 13 year olds. Mainly because, most of these people wouldn't even have methods to advertise and sell their products properly. Ignoring the actual issue at hand, which is not the actual problem, there are certain ways to go about making a point and I must say Justin didn't take the best approach. It is understandable that one can get upset at things, but taking a heated viewpoint; especially on the internet, will not garner you with listeners.

The whole statement came across very immature and hardly seemed the way someone preaching about magic should behave. The fact you brandished an age limit on DVD production was bad enough until you made an exception for the Buck Twins. It doesn't matter if they are a rare exception, you cannot make blanket statements and expected to be taken seriously. The whole 'I'm a victim' approach when people offered different opinions was ridiculous. If you cannot handle people disagreeing with you on a public forum, then don't post. While if you look at the underlying meaning of Justin's post, there was some good points, but the approach was totally off the mark, and I swear if people don't stop making bad magic to rocket science analogies I will scream.

I post this knowing full well people will disagree with me, that's the beauty of the internet, you can always find someone that disagrees with you.
 
Sep 4, 2007
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Having only logged in roughly five minutes ago and read Justin's first essay, and a few of the replys I must say that any respect that I had for Justin Miller has seriosly took a battering. This is my response.

Being a young magician myself (15) I can share some of his veiws and frustration with the current new generation of young and eager magicians. They have been raised to think that with spending $30 on the latest Ellusionist product they can become the next David Blaine, or that a deck of cards with a piss yellow tinge, and a few cracks will make them a cardistry super star. (Btw the buck twins.... shouldn't have went anywere near putting their name on them)

But Miller, you cannot attack a problem, but then become part of the core reasons for that problem. By joining "E" and endorsing, advertising and selling products you have proved that you are worse than the magicians you dislike for feeding them the very capatalist fuel to become annoying, fame seaking individuals.

Joe.



This one hit the nail on the head. End of story.
 
Joe..lol
get your facts straight i am no longer with E and have not been for close to 2 yrs now.. I diid see the problem hence me saying good-bye to E.

I do everything now through Kozmo magic and my own production company.
Justin N. Miller

E was good to me and I will not talk bad about them like many of us they had a rough spot but they to took a beating and came back from it.

Fair enough Justin (I'm not that sure if you really are Justin MIller) but I think that you need to take some responsibility in becoming part of the problem.

All this asside, I am quite surprised that someone of your status would post on a public forum, and for that I am respectfull.
 
Wow...what a thread...i agree with the age limit...up to an extent. I have been a worker since the age of 15, 6 years now. Yes it all came from publicity of being the youngest member to join the PMC etc, and being the youngest winner of their close up competition, but as stated, there are exceptions. At 9 days now shy of being 21, i have released quite a bit of Magic already...'Bright Ideas DVD, Impervious DVD, Thought of Cards Across project, MindPlay, Collection of Card Magic, and though un-released main stream, my lecture notes 'A Lecture in Wonderland'. All of which has received nothing but praise from fellow workers and professionals. I am one of the fortunate people to just keep being in the right place at the right time, and get more work than most Magicians do, still at my young age, so i do disagree on some level with the age factor.

If you are good enough, people will book you, regardless of your age. That will give you experience etc which counts more than anything. Some people might have been in Magic for 30 years...and only done about 5 or 6 gigs in that entire time, and that is thanks to family and friends help. Yet they are still not in a position to lecture to people etc. Now, lecture notes are for that...lectures. Don't write lecture notes if you aren't going to lecture. And trust me, if you are young, it is very hard to lecture...why? Because pros go to lectures to see if they can learn anything, and if you aren't as experienced as them, or enough for their liking, they won't enjoy the lecture. I only started lecturing this year, and got glowing feedbacks on other forums from the lecture...why was it enjoyable to them? As i am experienced enough to be able to teach them SOMETHING they didnt think of before, or i just helped them in some way.

So i agree with most of your post Justin, as i think most people do, but fair play for posting it
 
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