Criss Angel steals effect and markets it...

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Aug 31, 2007
1,960
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Long Island/New York
Instead of stating why you hate someone or something about the art, you shouldn't care what other people are doing.
Worry about you and how you make your magic happen.
Don't let things like this keep you from practicing because you were busy reading bull**** articles by an author that can't be identified located somewhere in Utah.
Threads like these lead to no-wheresville.
I try to stay out of the politics in magic, because simply it's not worth it.
I don't have the time to read about who's scamming who and why this person hates that one. It's just an endless argument back and forth because both parties feel that they're right. So the amount of time you've read this thread and replied to, you've wasted time that you can never get back that could have been used to practice.
Realize this now before your history repeats itself and those measly minutes turn into hours.
Slippery slope? Maybe.
The only thing to do is just let it be.
 
I don't get involved in these kind of threads but I can't help myself this time. First, wow what a subject for a thread. I think the tone it was written states your personal opinion of Criss as a person.

I'm wrapping up my third season (season 6) of Mindfreak and I wouldn't be here if the kind of crap people say was true.

If you look carefully at the back of the box in question it does say "Criss featured this mind-blowing twist on the classic 4 ace assembly"

I was not there for the taping of the Mastermind DVD's so I'm not sure what kind of exact crediting is on there but I know for a fact that Criss never had the intention of claiming this as his own creation. We all pitched in on the routine (the one that aired on Season 4) and Criss was excited to perform it after practicing it.

Nobody in this world is perfect, Criss makes mistakes just like the rest of us. The only difference is that because he is a celebrity his mistakes are under a microscope and picked apart. Some of your favorite creators (and most popular) have lifted other peoples material openly and still people adore them.

We're busting ass to get this season done, a lot of material was dropped just because it wasn't strong enough. Criss also did a few classic effects this season in honor of Doug Henning...paying homage to someone that came before him.

The guy is super busy and his life is constantly at warp speed so trust me...he doesn't have the time to even think about stealing effects.

Hope this helps clear things up. Sometimes the media affects not only the perception of people in real life but also in our small magic world as well.

l u k e
@ baller, dude good to see that you are back.....

@l uke: its good to hear some direct insight on the thinking of what goes on behind the scenes, cuz Lord knows the name of Criss Angel i forsaken by many magicians, both well known and not so well known.....if i was hearing about Criss for the first time, i would think this guy is Satan....
 
Feb 16, 2009
217
0
South Bend, IN
Is Criss Angel stealing effects?

i was perusing some magic sites and noticed that his new masterminds dvd is called MF ACES. now not to be a jerk, but this is deffinitely NOT HIS TRICK, nor is it even a trick created by any of his consultants, so why is Criss Angel stealing effects, renaming them, and then marketing them? this just screams SELL OUT to me

I don't think the trick he did on his show had any meaningful addition to the basic McDonald's aces trick (which actually goes back to Hofzinser).

I found a video giving a demo of this effect. People can judge for themselves whether this deserves to be released as a DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5V3DiZLoA

As for the camera tricks thing, you know you are in trouble when more than a couple of laymen think all your effects are acheived through camera trickery.
 
Apr 13, 2010
37
0
37
Banning CA
It's just an endless argument back and forth because both parties feel that they're right. So the amount of time you've read this thread and replied to, you've wasted time that you can never get back that could have been used to practice.

Well I would agree with you DannyT but you contradicted yourself on this one because you yourself "wasted" time responding especially when you claim to not like to get involved into the politics. Whether it was a a minute or an hour that passed before you responded it's all the same.

Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

Everyone knows Satan doesn't need camera tricks.

Oh - snap!

:)

I like that that's hilarious

For those who are "defending" Criss (but I'm not going to choose a side for myself I'll just state some common sense facts). First off there are many things out there that can be abused if used improperly from drugs to alcohol to magic utilities such as stooges, or editing. The abuse for magic is that there is no more spectators just stooges and that editing becomes camera tricks.

My wife who doesn't do magic and doesn't know how i do any of my magic hates to watch magic on TV because she doesn't trust in it's believe ability and won't watch it at all. In her words too "Theres a bunch of girlies who like to watch Criss angel because they think he's hot..." My wife knows the film scene very well because her father has been in films when he was younger and her family has hung out with all your favorite actors and actresses from since film has started.

If you want to use magic with nothing but stooges go ahead, but if you have nothing but stooges who's gonna be amazed? If you want to use camera tricks for your magic go ahead who's gonna be amazed. Also using magic as a way to get girls is very disrespect for both parties because your magic becomes a pickup line not an amazing effect they'll remember. Because what they'll remember is you coming up and doing something just to get with them.

Anyways...carry on:)
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
The problem people have with him using camera tricks and stooges is that he overuses the same two methods.

You say "his goal is to fool spectators and that he does." I strongly disagree.

If I'm out performing and someone happens to bring up Criss Angel, someone always says something about how "all he does is use camera tricks and stooges." Laymen are saying this--every time his name is brought up! Now that's a problem.

...So the truth is, whether he uses camera tricks for 1% or 100% of his effects, a lot of laymen now have the perspective that whatever he does must be a camera trick or using a stooge. Criss doesn't give laymen enough credit--they can see for themselves the reactions he's getting aren't genuine, and they've have seen enough movies to know when they're seeing a special effect.

Remember, laymen are often looking for a reason to explain what they see, and Criss has given them every excuse to dismiss whatever he does as a camera trick or a poorly acted scene.

While that is true, and people DO say "All Criss Angel does is use camera tricks", we also have to remember a few things...

Ask people what they think about stage magic. They will tell you that they think there def IS a trick somehow because they are on stage and use stage hands, huge props, lighting, dancing girls, etc. Then they will usually say that the reason why they like close up magic so much more is because it is right in their face, and there is no way to hide anything or cheat. (We alllll know that is not true...lol)

Many magicians have used the TV to their advantage, using camera tricks and special edits to make their effect "look" better...even if the end result is not so great:
Franz Harary
David Copperfield
David Blaine
Criss Angel
(just to name a few)

Something else to think about: If Criss Angel was NOT doing his job properly, then he wouldn't have millions of viewers tuning in to his show to watch him. Look I myself am not a fan of his show, and have only watched just a handful of episodes because it just doesn't appeal to me. But it doesn't have to.

Just my $4.34 worth...

Mike
 
Aug 20, 2008
34
1
Sauquoit New York
i am not saying criss isnt a busy guy, and im not saying that criss is bad for magic. what i am saying, is that i think it is completely rediculous to publish an effect that everyone already knows about, and probably has at home. thats what im saying. im not dissing his show, or his consultants, because to be honest, i think he has the best in the biz, working form him. Luke Dancy included. several of his team, are many of my biggest influences.

my only question was why is he selling THIS effect as apose to something of his thats origional. i think that would really get people interested in HIS magic.
 
Aug 20, 2008
34
1
Sauquoit New York
i also want to say that i in NO WAY, EVER, said anything about camera tricks, or anything of the sort, I have the deepest respect for the consultants of Mindfreak, and what they do. my only grudge was the release of this effect.
 
Aug 20, 2008
34
1
Sauquoit New York
you know what, i dont even care anymore, i was mad when i wrote the origional post. so whatever. if i offended any criss angel fans, then sorry. i know luke dancy wasnt too happy, so i appologize to him. but i will not appologize for my oppinion of the ethics of the dvd. i still believe that. if you dont like it, then to be honest, i really dont care. im not going to be sucked into the "magic politics" of this, debate. call me ignorant, dissagree, it doesnt really matter, at the end of the day, i get to do what i love. and i get to make people happy doing it.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,238
3
While that is true, and people DO say "All Criss Angel does is use camera tricks", we also have to remember a few things...

Ask people what they think about stage magic. They will tell you that they think there def IS a trick somehow because they are on stage and use stage hands, huge props, lighting, dancing girls, etc. Then they will usually say that the reason why they like close up magic so much more is because it is right in their face, and there is no way to hide anything or cheat. (We alllll know that is not true...lol)

I think it depends on what kind of stage magic you are referring to. Are we talking Tossed out Deck or a helicopter production?

I think it all depends on the effect and the magician. I know the last time Copperfield came down to my area, a bunch of laymen I know went, and none of them could stop talking about how he made that car appear on stage. I think people usually just think of gimmick boxes and trap doors and mirrors when they think of stage magic because that's the cliche', the same way people tend to think all magicians use wands and pull rabbits out of hats or the same way people tend to think all close-up magicians pull quarters out from behind the ears of children at their birthday parties.

Many magicians have used the TV to their advantage, using camera tricks and special edits to make their effect "look" better...even if the end result is not so great:
Franz Harary
David Copperfield
David Blaine
Criss Angel
(just to name a few)
True, and some were more successful than others. As I stated earlier, the problem with how Criss Angel uses camera tricks and special edits compared to a few others you listed is that Criss overuses those methods and he's not getting them by anyone anymore. Laymen have caught on and his "magic" is being dismissed and boiled down to just two methods (camera tricks and stooges) no matter what he does. Not saying it's fair or not, but that's the reality of how many laymen look at Criss Angel's magic now.

Something else to think about: If Criss Angel was NOT doing his job properly, then he wouldn't have millions of viewers tuning in to his show to watch him.
I disagree. I rarely watch TV, but when I do I always see incompetent people doing their jobs poorly (journalists, actors, screenwriters, politicians, hosts, etc.). I'm not saying Criss is or isn't a bad magician--simply that just because someone has a job that puts their face on television definitely doesn't mean they're good at what they do.

I don't know the last time David Williamson appeared on network television, but I know it was before Jason Randall's last few appearances on Letterman. Know what I mean?
 
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Dec 30, 2008
675
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I think not crediting the people who created the tricks right on the box is just as bad as him not telling his audience who created the tricks he does and how innovative the use of invisible thread was in the trick before he performs it. It's like he doesn't even care...
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
I think it depends on what kind of stage magic you are referring to. Are we talking Tossed out Deck or a helicopter production? I think it all depends on the effect and the magician. I know the last time Copperfield came down to my area, a bunch of laymen I know went, and none of them could stop talking about how he made that car appear on stage. I think people usually just think of gimmick boxes and trap doors and mirrors when they think of stage magic because that's the cliche', the same way people tend to think all magicians use wands and pull rabbits out of hats or the same way people tend to think all close-up magicians pull quarters out from behind the ears of children at their birthday parties.

I should have clarified, my bad. I was referring to illusions on stage that play for stage. Something like the Death Saw or even the Corvette production, where lighting, blocking and staging all have to be there in order for the effect to be accomplished. A lot of my friends are laymen to magic, but not laymen to stage, as most of them work in either the television industry or in the theater.

There was a time when about 10 of us went to go see Copperfield in Baltimore, and after the show, all they kept talking about was how the lighting was used as well as the positions of the illusions on the stage. Not saying they figured it all out, but they all knew that none of those illusions could be performed surrounded and off stage.

True, and some were more successful than others. As I stated earlier, the problem with how Criss Angel uses camera tricks and special edits compared to a few others you listed is that Criss overuses those methods and he's not getting them by anyone anymore. Laymen have caught on and his "magic" is being dismissed and boiled down to just two methods (camera tricks and stooges) no matter what he does. Not saying it's fair or not, but that's the reality of how many laymen look at Criss Angel's magic now.

Actually...if you have never seen Franz Haray on the World's Greatest Magic, you need to YouTube it. In his Space Shuttle illusion, he uses the WORST actors I have EVER seen...ever! And when I say the worst...I mean THE worst of the worst! Like worse than mixing Lucky Charms milk with a Caesar salad.

You also have to take into consideration the fact that while Mindfreak IS his show, there have probably been many instances where he disagreed with what the networked wanted aired, vs what he wanted aired. How he wanted something shot, vs how the network wanted something shot. That is a reality in the film industry. So I don't really think all the blame needs to be brought to Angel for that.

I disagree. I rarely watch TV, but when I do I always see incompetent people doing their jobs poorly (journalists, actors, screenwriters, politicians, hosts, etc.). I'm not saying Criss is or isn't a bad magician--simply that just because someone has a job that puts their face on television definitely doesn't mean they're good at what they do.

When I said "doing something right", I was not referring to him being a good magician or a bad one. I was referring to the fact that in order for a show to continue to be aired on television, it has to have an audience. I seriously don't think that the network would continue to air a television show (6) seasons, that had no viewers. And in that respect, Criss Angel and his team ARE doing something right. Again, I don't really like the show, but SOMEONE out there must. Well, millions of someones.

But I definitely agree with the post about the "Mindfreak Aces"...I watched the video performance and there is not one single "move" in there that would signify any sort of originality at all. So on that note, I am going to go work on my newest original effect, "Card stuck to the top of a structure of some sort"

Mike
 
Dec 10, 2007
126
0
Slovenia (Europe)
i just find it rediculous that he claims magic is HIS art, and he knows NOTHING about it. i bet half the 15 year old magicians at any given magic convention could one up him both on performing, AND history.

Please read that again and find yourself seeing how ridicolous it actually is. He is on national television, he is obviously doing something right.

-S
 
Apr 13, 2010
37
0
37
Banning CA
Criss Angel never started out with millions people so don't be using that as the reason why he's so popular or a "great" magician. Even if he did start out with millions it would put him in a worse spot because it mean it was all for the flash of it all. The guy does magic and it's cool but it's by no means great and his style is way to...all about him.
 
May 9, 2008
603
0
I can respect him as an entertainer. I can't respect him as a magician. Yes he does entertain home viewers, who are fooled by camera tricks and stooges. The people he is supposedly entertaining ON TV, are stooges. You can tell by their poor acting and poor/fake reactions. I don't mind a stooge once in a while, but every episode, and nearly every effect has at least one stooge. I find watching magic on TV entertaining because I like watching peoples reactions. If they are stooges, then it's no fun, because I know everything was a setup. I can easily spot stooges, so watching Criss is no fun most of the time. He's used way WAY too many camera tricks. For instance when he climbed out of the manhole, then rolled up the man hole. Camera trick. You could never perform many many of his effects without camera tricks/editing. I've posted reasons why I dislike Criss Angel as a magician ad nauseum, and never once was it because I was jealous of his fame/fortune/attractiveness. It was because he really isn't a magician. He's just an actor on a scripted show. It might as well be a show about special effects because everything is scripted, down to the spectators on the show. That's not magic. That's acting.

I have no problem with him selling a variation on an illusion as this is how it's done most of the time. Anytime you see a trick for sale, it's probably credited to someone else, or it's a variation.
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
I can respect him as an entertainer. I can't respect him as a magician. Yes he does entertain home viewers, who are fooled by camera tricks and stooges. The people he is supposedly entertaining ON TV, are stooges. You can tell by their poor acting and poor/fake reactions. I don't mind a stooge once in a while, but every episode, and nearly every effect has at least one stooge. I find watching magic on TV entertaining because I like watching peoples reactions. If they are stooges, then it's no fun, because I know everything was a setup. I can easily spot stooges, so watching Criss is no fun most of the time. He's used way WAY too many camera tricks. For instance when he climbed out of the manhole, then rolled up the man hole. Camera trick. You could never perform many many of his effects without camera tricks/editing. I've posted reasons why I dislike Criss Angel as a magician ad nauseum, and never once was it because I was jealous of his fame/fortune/attractiveness. It was because he really isn't a magician. He's just an actor on a scripted show. It might as well be a show about special effects because everything is scripted, down to the spectators on the show. That's not magic. That's acting.

I have no problem with him selling a variation on an illusion as this is how it's done most of the time. Anytime you see a trick for sale, it's probably credited to someone else, or it's a variation.

This is where you are wrong...
Criss Angel is a magician. Even by definition of what a magician is: an actor playing the part of a magician. And Criss fits this bill.

He actually had a pretty kickass show in NYC some time ago - before his now known Mindfreak show. And from what I do know, his mother took a second mortgage out on her house to help Criss fund that show. And Guess what, it worked.

I definately do agree with the stooge factor, as he does use quite a bit. But there are also routines on there that use real spectators too. Not enough in my opinion.

But to say that the man is not a magician is just rude and plain wrong.

I met Criss at Jeff McBride's house and listened to him talk about magic and how much he loves and cares for the art. He has a passion for magic just like we all do.

While Criss is not someone I look up to as a mentor in magic, I definately do respect him because he is a magician. And hell...I wish I had my own friggin tv show...lol
 
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