How not to ask for a favor...

[Jacob]

That isn't really an excuse anymore. Paypal has the digital master cards that you can make and use for online purchase.

Really? It seems that I tried something like that a while back but it was only for the US. Im in Canada. Im going to have to look into this. And its not an excuse, there are downloads on here that I would love to have but couldnt because I dont have a credit card.
EDIT: I cant find anything about this on the Paypal site. Could you please direct me to where I can do this.

 

[KeoSilver]

Really? It seems that I tried something like that a while back but it was only for the US. Im in Canada. Im going to have to look into this. And its not an excuse, there are downloads on here that I would love to have but couldnt because I dont have a credit card.
EDIT: I cant find anything about this on the Paypal site. Could you please direct me to where I can do this.

Certainly let me go check.

https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2007/11/introducing-the/comment-page-5/

Bum bum, I apologize for the non us citizens that paypal hasn't moved quick enough to make a paypal plug in. Sorry bout that Jacob.

 

[Nico91]

Won't the prepaid Visa's, MasterCards, and AMEX work? I think those work international and online.

 

[JasonEngland]

Instead of being depressed over the fact that he didn't watch your videos (most probably he does not have a credit card) , you should have referred him to TEATCC ( www.erdnase.com ).I think his question was legitimate but may be óffensive'to some people like you but not me.

Bill,

Please take your head out of your ass. I wasn't depressed over the "fact that he didn't watch my videos."

I was upset over the sense of entitlement that his tone represented. All this kid had to do was say, "I can't afford your 1-on-1s" or "I don't have a credit card" and I would picked up the phone, called JB and told him to send this kid the unlock codes for both videos. I've done it before, on more than one occasion.

To put it another way, the first question was legitimate. And I gave what I believed (and still believe) was a "good" answer. If you weren't aware of those videos, they're the first place I would send a beginner, because not only do they get you started, but they contain lots of other references within them. In short, they're a good value if you're trying to learn either move.

Instead of clarifying his financial situation, or telling me he owned the videos already and was looking for some sources other than the ones listed within those videos, he became dismissive of my first "good faith" reply and immediately jumped to the conclusion that I would be of no further help.

It's the dismissive tone and the assumptions made by Suhaas that are critical here, nothing more.

Had I gotten this email: "Mr. England, I'm a kid with little to no money to spend but I'm really interested in the bottom deal and the Greek deal. Can you point me to any online resources or other sources at little to no cost? I'd appreciate it"*, I'd have immediately replied "yes" for the bottom deal and provided resources. An electronic version of The Expert at the Card Table is a good answer. The Greek deal is a little tougher, and the answer is probably "no." I just don't know of any online resources that I feel are good ones. In either case I would've sent he kid the downloads.

At the end of the day Bill, assumptions are what sank this kid. You seem to have done the same thing with your first reply here.

Jason

*Don't flood my inbox with variations on this email. That ship has sailed for the time being.

 

[j.bayme]

He obviously can't get the videos as if had a credit card , he would have gotten it already.Stop trying to force him to buy the videos.He asked for other resources , not the videos.

Bill,

Nothing in the message Jason referenced implied (or stated) that he didn't have a credit card, so I don't think your post is correct in fact or intent. The message did NOT say "other resources" - it said "good resources" - and specifically said he couldn't find the Greek Deal "anywhere." Jason's response simply answered that question.

No one is more generous with their time than Jason is - I have seen him firsthand session with young magicians at conventions offering tips, ideas, finesses. In fact, Jason gave out several of his 1-on-1's for free at a lecture in Canada last month (he was sick and wanted to make sure everyone there got the best instruction possible).

I will absolutely give Suhaas the benefit of the doubt - perhaps he did mean "other resources BESIDES the 1-on-1's" - but that is not what his message stated, so I of course understand how Jason got the impression he did.

 

[wZEnigma]

I know I sent you a PM asking about resources behind a change, but I just wanted to know out of curiosity, and am prepared to find the sources myself at whatever charge. I agree with your decision. This was a bad experience for you, and I understand.

Ian

 

[saborfang17]

Bill,

Please take your head out of your ass. I wasn't depressed over the "fact that he didn't watch my videos."

I was upset over the sense of entitlement that his tone represented. All this kid had to do was say, "I can't afford your 1-on-1s" or "I don't have a credit card" and I would picked up the phone, called JB and told him to send this kid the unlock codes for both videos. I've done it before, on more than one occasion.

To put it another way, the first question was legitimate. And I gave what I believed (and still believe) was a "good" answer. If you weren't aware of those videos, they're the first place I would send a beginner, because not only do they get you started, but they contain lots of other references within them. In short, they're a good value if you're trying to learn either move.

Instead of clarifying his financial situation, or telling me he owned the videos already and was looking for some sources other than the ones listed within those videos, he became dismissive of my first "good faith" reply and immediately jumped to the conclusion that I would be of no further help.

It's the dismissive tone and the assumptions made by Suhaas that are critical here, nothing more.

Had I gotten this email: "Mr. England, I'm a kid with little to no money to spend but I'm really interested in the bottom deal and the Greek deal. Can you point me to any online resources or other sources at little to no cost? I'd appreciate it"*, I'd have immediately replied "yes" for the bottom deal and provided resources. An electronic version of The Expert at the Card Table is a good answer. The Greek deal is a little tougher, and the answer is probably "no." I just don't know of any online resources that I feel are good ones. In either case I would've sent he kid the downloads.

At the end of the day Bill, assumptions are what sank this kid. You seem to have done the same thing with your first reply here.

Jason

*Don't flood my inbox with variations on this email. That ship has sailed for the time being.

Please take your head out of your ass. I wasn't depressed over the "fact that he didn't watch my videos.

Ouch. I think you might've annoyed one of my favorite t11 artists...

 

[ReadMoreMagicBooks]

Jason, I love you!!

 

[S.G]

Deepest and sincerest apologies

Hello everyone,

I have been reading through this thread and I jet wanted to say that I, in no way was trying to say that Mr.England is a lesser card mechanic than anyone else. I have already PM'ed him about this and I sincerely hope that he does not think I am just trying to suck up to him. To tell you the complete and honest truth, Mr.England is one of my idols as far as gambling tricks and magic goes. Ever since I saw the trailers for his 1-on-1's I have looked at gambling with a much more serious eye. He was actually the main reason that I got started with gambling related things. And for upsetting him, I extend my deepest, deepest apologies. While I know that many of you will think that these are empty words, please realize that I truly do mean very last one of them. Ever since I sent that PM, I have wanted to take it back. Even before this thread was made.

I was just wanting to ask him for other resources besides the one on ones as I am currently broke and my parents do not really support my magic intentions. I was really not trying to get on his nerves and basically make him hate me.

I would like to once again apologize for my PMs and the attitude that was conveyed. I would also like to apologize to Mr.Bayme for seeming like I doubted the quality of the 1-on-1's. I personally love the attitude of this site more than any other one on there and will try not to make mistakes like this again.

Thank you to everyone and sorry at the same time.

Sincerely,
Suhaas G

 

[Robert//Livingston]

He obviously can't get the videos as if had a credit card , he would have gotten it already.Stop trying to force him to buy the videos.He asked for other resources , not the videos.

How did this have anything to do with my post that you quoted? Did I say "You must buy these 1-on-1's because there is nothing else you can do!"?

I recommended them, yes. I also recommended that he use a search function, but I guess you must have overlooked that.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

Calling suhaas out was really ignorant and rude. I expected better from you Jason.

 

[MarkEfferent]

I see more immaturity from Jason than anyone. Suhaas G wanted a reference on where to get the original information. Jason England, though a beast at the moves, did not invent them. G did not say "I wanna know it for free!" yet everyone implies that that's what he wanted. He asked where the information might be obtainable. I wish this thread would be closed. In fact I wish Jason hadn't even started this thread. This was not even close to being an important topic to post as a thread. These are magic forums, but I wouldn't know by this type of thread.

 

[Rneogy]

Calling suhass out was really ignorant and rude. I expected better rom you jason

I absolutely agree... Except for the misspelling... But yeah. There was no need to make it public... It's called a PRIVATE message for a reason...

 

[j.bayme]

Calling suhass out was really ignorant and rude. I expected better rom you jason

How is posting concern in a sincere, honest manner "ignorant"? I think having the words ignorant and Jason England in the same sentence is humorous, as he is one of the least ignorant people I know on any topic - magic or otherwise. Jason is also one of the most ethical individuals in this industry - an individual I often call upon personally for advice on matters both moral and intellectual.

This matter is settled. Jason understandably took offense that someone would seemingly feel entitled to something from him for free - something he worked hard on - pouring 20 minutes and 25 years of experience into one video - priced at about $5. I absolutely understand his feeling and I think that everyone reading this, if in the same position, would have felt exactly the same way.

Suhaas has since apologized in good faith for the issue and any misunderstanding in the process. If he was in fact asking for other resources besides the 1-on-1, then this was simply a matter of poor word choice. As Jason clarified, if the message had said "I am unable to purchase the 1-on-1's; is there any other resource that you may recommend" - then I know for a fact that the outcome would have been far different. Tone and wording are impossible to predict in an online setting, and this is a case study of that. Simple. No need now for anything now but a handshake and moving forward with a positive outlook and putting this past us.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

fixed the spelling.

 

[CaseyRudd]

Calling suhaas out was really ignorant and rude. I expected better rom you jason

I 3rd this post guys. What Jason did was "uncalled" for. By that I mean it was immature of him to place a poster's name from a conversation that was meant to be private. Hence the term "PRIVATE MESSAGE".

Maybe this was a way for you to whine about younger people who are actually trying to learn these moves. I found it very unprofessional of you to call someone out, AND whine about it. Come on Jason, you have over 30 years of experience with these moves, the least you could do was answer the guys question being humble and polite.

This was just a rude post by you Jason, come one man. Really?

-Casey

 

[UnknownMagician93]

J bayme-

suhaas wasnt asking for it for free. He merely wanted the reference. And either way, I would expect better things from a "professional" than posting personal messages on a forum and trying to sell his own one on ones and rejecting someone the right to a source of reference.

 

[Rneogy]

Suhaas has since apologized in good faith for the issue and any misunderstanding in the process. If he was in fact asking for other resources besides the 1-on-1, then this was simply a matter of poor word choice. As Jason clarified, if the message had said "I am unable to purchase the 1-on-1's; is there any other resource that you may recommend" - then I know for a fact that the outcome would have been far different. Tone and wording are impossible to predict in an online setting, and this is a case study of that. Simple. No need now for anything now but a handshake and moving forward with a positive outlook and putting this past us.

yeah.... well... yeah...

 

[ATH]

Come on guys, seriously. This whole thing is immature. Everyone needs to stop taking sides. Stop taking everything up the ass and get over it people. This thread needs to be closed and forgotten. Back to magic please!

My two cents,
Austin

 

[j.bayme]

J bayme-

suhaas wasnt asking for it for free. He merely wanted the reference. And either way, I would expect better things from a "professional" than posting personal messages on a forum and trying to sell his own one on ones and rejecting someone the right to a source of reference.

Subhaas since clarified that matter, but at the time, it absolutely sounded like "you're not going to give them to me for free?" That's certainly how I read the message to mean when I saw it in this thread. As Jason specified, if the post had asked for OTHER resources in addition to the 1-on-1's, then his response would have been far different. If that were the case, I trust that Jason would have referred him to a LOAD of resources and done everything in his power to help him out. Anyone that knows Jason could testify to that fact.

I of course now realize that that was not Subhaas's intention (per his message here), but it wasn't exactly the best choice of words to ask for "other resources" - the word "other" wasn't in the message.

Subhaas apologized, and Jason clarified his intention. I think that settles this matter.