Community Fading?

[Jason Soll]

Hey guys.

For those of you who don't know me, I've been very involved with the online magic/cardistry/xcm communities for around 5 years now. I've watched as novice card handlers evolve into masters, and watched them teach other's what they learned along the way. However, I'm not "feeling it" now with cardistry...

...over time skilled card handlers, one by one, will leave the scene (ex. Roman, Bone, etc.). But it seems as if everyone just vanished. poof! And there was Theory11.

I love Theory11 and what's been done with it....but I think there's more than just correlation between it starting up and the masters leaving where they came from.

I miss the days when I could hop online and always find another killer video to watch. I miss the days where those videos gave me inspiration and taught me something new I could do between my hands and my deck of cards. It seems as though those days are slowly fading away...


Comments?

Jason

 

[Philip]

Amen!!!!!!!

 

[trashmanf]

Jerry made a great quote on Flashcards... basically him and de'vo are marathon runners in a field that is mostly sprinters.

Everywhere I look in old posts on flourishing websites I see tons of usernames that I don't recognize because they don't post any comments or videos anymore... which I guess means they all moved on?

I think the reason has to do with why you get into cardistry in the first place. If you saw a video where someone did an awesome flourish (lets say the Jackson 5) and said "I WANT TO DO THAT!" well, after a bit of flourishing, you can accomplish it, and so maybe flourishing isn't as challenging to you anymore so you move onto something else.

this is just my hypothesis Im a n00b and havent been in the community a long time so I dont *really* know why everyone quits cards. it just seems reasonable that most of them get bored with it.

also the fact that theory 11 took decknique's media page is going to make even LESS videos out there, because many people including myself aren't willing to support t11's corporate-driven empire with our own flourishing videos. of course if some random d-bag posts my videos on a t11 forum I can't do anything about THAT - but I believe that most high quality videos will not be submitted to t11's section (on purpose at least... they can't post videos without permission right? oh wait that's what they did when they launched).


but there is a hope... if a new INDEPENDENT flourishing website is created, or if decknique's media section returns, then you will see lots more awesome videos from the community, I guarantee it!!!

 

[ace18]

J.Soll

I was thinking the same exact thing.

I don't know exactly why, but I think that there is/was always an influx in the Flourishing time-line.

We are a community built off of ideas, and when there are no new ideas, things tend to slow down. We are waiting for the next "big thing" right now, more material, DVDs, Videos, artists.

 

[Jason Soll]

We are waiting for the next "big thing" right now, more material, DVDs, Videos, artists.

But here's the thing.......what IS THERE TO WAIT FOR?

There are no "groundbreaking" products in production now. The Bucks just put out the Trilogy, which in my opinion was excellent but not good enough to truly re-spark a community.

We need another Cradle to Grave. We need another System. We need another "Bible". Until something as good as these stated items is released....we will all be waiting endlessly...

Jason

 

[trashmanf]

Jerry's been prolific about releasing companion DVDs- I am amazed that many flourishers don't own these- for example the third companion DVD just got released and it is $#@king mind-blowing, there are moves that I have never seen before and I guarantee no-one else has either. seriously rad shuffles, NUCLEAR armspreads, insane routines, if you want to know where the next best thing is at just check www.flourishman.com

that said, XB vol II will be coming out relatively soon, some community members are working on DVDs (been to dancedany's youtube channel recently?), and groups such as the Virts have just dropped some SICK footage on our asses.

also handlordz has the world XCM competition which means there are a LOT of videos with real meat to them, no rehashs of the same old cuts there, you see a lot of emphasis on originality and combo'ing to create eye-pleasing routines.

so overall I would say there IS great new material out there, if you know where to look.

 

[Jonas]

People need to start sharing CONCEPTS rather than finished cuts, I think that will spark some creativity in peoples minds.

 

[4jacks]

I think they grew up.

I've been here for 3 years, and I've always been the oldest person. This is a teenager dominated community.

Jason, you are 18? .... 3 years ago you use to post a WHOLE lot more stuff. Good stuff too. But you grew up a little, hit the steroids, got a girlfreind, got a driver's license, and now you're planning for college. Life just happens.

I hate to say it, but I think Trash is going to be around for a long while. For the simple reason of him being an adult and settled down.






*for all the people who don't know me*
btw, I was j/k about the steroids, and I really have no clue what is going on in Jason's life, just speculating.

 

[ace18]

Jason, yeah that the problem we don't know, but some people are just hoping that something new and "groundbreaking" will come out soon and spark the community again.

Right now I only know of one thing that could do that, and I don't even know if it is started or in production yet.

Jonas, I like that idea but, I don't think it will catch on people are just fixated on keeping things to themselves. I mean, not in a bad way, but if Kev or Daren or S&S or any of the other "greats" shared some of their stuff once in a while, i am sure we would see some, if not many more things come out. Now I do also understand the fact that they are very skilled and could put out a DVD, and I am sure PLENTY would sell.

But seriously guys, remember the days of Mredux, the System. What the flourishing world needs is:
A Revival.

 

[Fiddlingsteve]

wtf trash are you a HL spokesperson?

You know waht happened Jason? There was nothing hype happening. I say the glorious days of card cutting ended when lethal was finally released. Why not the trilogy? It didn't open a new door, not at all revolutionary, classy and great stuff, but not like the system of CTG.

Jerry and De'vo do an alright job keeping things hyped up, having everyone be really into everything and keep releasing products. Thats a good way to keep a community. However, I don't see nearly half the original material coming out of there, a lot of the guys from the old DND community still active are making incredible new stuff, they're just copying the awesome stuff Jerry and De'vo do.

Regardless of that, cause its a separate issure, I think Theory11 shunned a lot of people away, which was helped by a lot being older and having no time, college, or just lsing interest.

But look at the virts, stronger than ever, you know why? Made themselves a little group in real life.. idk, they've been around, but now they are so good they keep eachother going.

Hopefully its just a phase. Hopefully people will sprout up.. but seriously.. so many are gone, even before theory11 a lot were gone. What a shame.

 

[Vinnie C.]

Yes, we are in a bit of a dark age right now, but I feel it will pass. We need something cool to spark a bit of life into things again.

(on purpose at least... they [theory11] can't post videos without permission right? oh wait that's what they did when they launched).

As much as I may not like what happened, when you submit something to Decknique you agree to its rules, and one of those rules states that Decknique can do whatever it wants with your submitted content.

-Vince

 

[Jonas]

"Don't wait for the change, be the change."

If some of the big names put their egos aside and shared some of their material, the art would be moving forward much more smoothly than it is today. Instead, people have to rely on people that actually take the long path and release DVD's, which is say 5 people or so. Isn't that a lot of material going to waste? Just face it, most of you big guys are not going to release DVD's, it's a lot of work.

I'm all for sharing what I feel is worth sharing, that's why I put out 5 of my favourite moves a while back. I hope someone else out of the respected people comes to the conclusion sooner or later that this art needs sharing to evolve.

 

[trashmanf]

wtf trash are you a HL spokesperson?

R U a hater?

he asked where the awesome "new" manipulation is taking place. the guys there consistenly post the best videos. they're doing crazy original sh!t in some of them! did you even watch the united card artist teams videos?

i may be kind of n00b but I am totally obsessed and basically spend all day every day looking for card videos! i'm trying to answer jasons question... if you're looking for new good videos, HL has them coming out more often than any other website! combine the World XCM tourney, the member video/battle sections, and the number of collabs/compilations that they organize, and that is just a fact!

i'm sorry that some people have issues with HL - try to remove your feelings from it and consider it just on the subject of good videos being released.

 

[TheMagicalSock]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Jonas. DVD's aren't going to revitalise cardistry; putting aside our pride and contributing to the community with good material is the only option.

I really appreciate what Jonas did with releasing those flourishes. I don't think it was his intention to give the community a boost when he released them, but he did. That's the kind of stuff we need if we're going to keep cardistry the way it was a couple years ago.

We can easily pull it off if we try. There's no reason why we can't refresh the community. It's been done several times before. The only thing that's changed are the circumstances, but we can work it out.

 

[Jason Soll]

Bottom line is this, gentlemen:

I honestly don't believe that any person on the PLANET has enough ORIGINAL material to truly respark this dead fire. It seems like, for flourishes (not magic), we've kind of hit the limit. Yeah there's an infinite number of ways to cut a deck, throw it in the air, spread it on your body, etc. But nobody is currently able to push the art to the next level...

...seems as though it hit a stopping point when TCC closed and the Cobra DVD was released. Since, NOTHING has been able to build enough hype to start it all up again.


Jason

 

[Vinnie C.]

A few people releasing a few moves isn't going to bring us back into full force. We need something new and unique, something powerful. Powerful enough to really liven up the card-world.

-Vince

 

[copperfield 14]

Bottom line is this, gentlemen:

I honestly don't believe that any person on the PLANET has enough ORIGINAL material to truly respark this dead fire. It seems like, for flourishes (not magic), we've kind of hit the limit. Yeah there's an infinite number of ways to cut a deck, throw it in the air, spread it on your body, etc. But nobody is currently able to push the art to the next level...

...seems as though it hit a stopping point when TCC closed and the Cobra DVD was released. Since, NOTHING has been able to build enough hype to start it all up again.


Jason

There will always be something new and revolutionary, but it hasn't come out yet. Instead of consentrating on the virts or the bucks there is probablly some flourisher that noone has heard about, will come out and change cardistry just like Devo or the Bucks.

 

[Ampersan5340]

hello decknique friends gald to see you on teh froums I pop in and out so I probabaly won't respond to any comment posted, anyway no flourisher has come up with , THE NEXT BEST THING, in flourishing but soon will. There are no boundaries, or limits. i've finished a display and hopefully people will like it, will it inspire others maybe, probabaly not, point being that although there are a lot of moves I've actually seen nothing creative. Things like ciappi's 6# video is something I enjoy. Why not bring some other thing into flourishing, I.E Balncing a cup on your elbow then do a sybil or something. It's off the top of my head but I just tried it and it's pretty difficult. Anyway I hope something CREATIVE arises from floursihing, not oringinal. I mean anyone can make soemthing original but creative? that's a diffrent story

 

[Lang]

XB3 is coming out soon, and I think Schattenreich, as well.

Also,
I don't think anyone is being influenced to create because of the two handed cut era that just passed through. The manipulation society was limited to sybils for a while for some reason. Sorry for saying this a zillion times at different communities, but it's true.


If you want to create, get away from the computer, and stop watching others videos. Don't buy DVDs. Create with your own brain.

-Look around the house and find random objects. Incorporate them into your manipulation technique. Hybrid Manipulation.

-Don't sit down while practicing. You will probably just create small moves that aren't to eye catching. Stand up. Image that there is someone 1000 feet away from you, and perform for them.

-Image that you just created the art, and you have to create some insane underground concepts to start this whole world of manipulation.

-Look in the mirror and image yourself doing the craziest, biggest, and most amazing move. What does it look like? Do it.

-Try practicing without cards. (This is a GREAT one)

Sharing videos, and DVDs is one way to inspire, but start using your own brain. Get your own style, dammit.

-Lang

 

[Eddie]

I'm working on a new DVD that has 2 feet cuts.
Hope this is what you guys are looking for.