I don't know if you've noticed or not, but quoting bible verses only works on people that believe in and fear the holy suppository...
Originally Posted by Craig Browning
...ask yourself why, if this is the one and only truth, why must it constantly defame and discredit other traditions, cultures and teachings? ... why does it boast a 1,700+ year history that's knee deep in innocent blood, conquests, the theft of sacred artifacts belonging to other people's, etc, etc, etc.?
Isn't this faulty reasoning? Couldn't a person say the same for any people group and it would be true? "Man, those atheists, how can they say they believe the truth when there are so many atheists who are responsible for so much bloodshed throughout history. If that's what atheists teach, I don't want any part of that."
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"Man, those white people, they are responsible for so much war..."
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"Man, those Hindu's..." -you get my point.
I think your concern is about people in general, not with God.
In fact:
NO… you’re trying to justify or nullify the many transgressions for which (apparently) your religion is guilty of in the name of their god and supposed right to physically force everyone to comply to their will and way.
What kind of “God” sends armies out to murder an entire race of people simply because they won’t worship him? Is this the benevolent “loving” paternal type of deity Christians claim their god to be?
Well, it most certainly is… the Old Testament reads like one of the biggest Genocide-based conquests in world history up to and possibly including WWII and the antics of the Nazis. But even in the current era we have good old Patrick out murdering and tormenting the very people who saved his life and nursed him back to health; even keeping two of the elders as “pets” after blinding them and chaining them to the floor in his private study in order to have intellectual equals to converse with…
I know hundreds of Atheists and even Satanist who’ve never hurt a soul and in fact, never will. Ignore what Hollywood and the preachers tell you about Satanist, they don’t believe in wasting life just for the sake of a “sacrifice”… and LeVey would literally catch insects in his home and gently carry them outside and release them and he was the founder of the Satanic church… granted his daughter has grossly bastardized things, but not so much for the “true” believers who tend to mimic Buddhism more than anything else.
Historically no other cult, culture, political or military element is responsible for more bloodshed, violence and general inhumanity than Christianity and its many faces. That includes those scenarios in which you have Christians killing other Christians for not believing or worshipping God the “right way”… just look at the bigotry within most of Protestantism towards Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, Mormons, etc.
Originally Posted by Craig Browning
Jesus didn't teach such things and in fact, condemned them...
this is who (genuine) Christians follow and are aspiring towards, and hope to one day be like.
You can't expect everyone to be perfect. You just can't. The bible teaches that even though his people do many wrong things, he extends grace to them over and over. Then he tells them to go and do likewise for others. No one is perfect, but through Christ is a solution, not more problem.
So you’re saying that it’s ok to go out and break or twist all of the commandments and examples as to how to live… more or less do whatever you please, because “God” has already forgiven you.
Wow! Sign me up! That’s far easier than
being responsible for your defects of character, acts of attrition, bigotry, lethargy, theft, murder, etc. I’m certain the American Indians or Native Hawaiians would be forgiving and understanding of the brutality they came to know at the hands of the good missionaries that desecrated their lands, forced them to worship their god by way of beating and blackmail (the threat of killing their kin folk) and even pushing for laws (some are still in effect) that forbid them of speaking their own language, worshiping in the way of their people and THEIR OWN traditional understanding of the divine… but such antics are exactly how “Christians” have poisoned and conquered countless nations the world over, isn’t it?
As to “Christ” being the “solution” I’d suggest you learn what that word means; it’s not someone’s last name but a title and if we are referring to what that title means, then by all means, we should strive towards being “as” Christ… one that has obtained sufficient command of his/her self in matters of grace, discipline, etc. to stand as an “anointed one”… a great teacher of wisdom. I’ve yet to see a single self-professed Christian obtain that state… especially when you consider that it is on par with Nirvana. What’s worse, is I don’t see very many such people even trying to apply themselves along said path; they’d rather make excuses and justify their bad behaviors than practice the very ideology they are trying to force everyone else to live by… and Yes, the Children of Islam are likewise guilty of this this same thing, just not at the level of magnitude the spoilt, arrogant westernized Christians tend to be… they actually have more respect for Jesus the man than those that claim to follow him, believe it or not.
UNDERSTAND… I am NOT an atheist or “non-believer” as some might assume. I am what most might call a “Gnostic-Christian” when it comes to my views on things and before you say it, yes, it’s one of those Christian groups other Christians speak badly of, accuse of being wrong, satanic, etc. even though it is far older than anything we have today under the Christian banner… and of course there’s the fact that the original Jerusalem church, the one that was founded by James, the brother of Jesus based on the teachings of his brother, was likewise Gnostic by design… but hey, let’s not confuse the issue with the facts (it gets the modern Paulist-Christians just twisted something terrible)
I will stand up and defend anyone’s right to believe as they wish but not when their beliefs trespass on the lives and rights of others. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Christian, atheist, Buddhist or what have you, if you are trying to force people into following your version of “the truth” you are in the wrong, it’s that simple. Similarly, if you are not applying the standards and teachings of your faith, you have absolutely no right to express any form of dismay, accusation or condemnation towards others, but especially those who are not directly challenging or interfering with YOUR life.
I turn 51 next week and in the course of those years I’ve seen and experienced some of the ugliest modes of bigotry one could imagine, all of it right here in the good ole U.S. of A and ALL OF IT at the hands of people calling themselves “Christians”. I’ve watched them use their book to justify racial segregation and related violence and even slavery some 150ish years previous. I’ve seen it used as “proof” that women were the property of their husbands and deserve no rights… 60 years after they managed to finally get the vote and the right to smoke in public. I’ve likewise felt this same cold ugliness being directed at me during what should be celebrations of life vs. an encounter with fear… evil in its rawest form coupled by pure hatred.
Ignoring all of that I have likewise seen the corruption that goes on within church situations; I’m not talking about the kid-piddlers but preachers that screw the females of the congregation… married women and of course, him being a married man. Yet these same jerks would condemn me for who I am, calling me “sinner”?
No, they aren’t an exception, they are the rule… you will find them everywhere, many of them toting a gun as well as white washing the financial records when it comes to income vs. the official treasury.
There is NOTHING anyone can tell me that would make me change my views as to what a “true” Christian is in today’s world. I’ve watched and seen it all over the years and there’s not a single one of them that live up to what that word is supposed to me or what JC himself tried to teach us to be via the actions he took in life.
