Tips or Wage? ~ more thoughts from JDG

Jamie D. Grant

theory11 columnist
Oct 12, 2008
189
1
Vancouver
www.cardsinabottle.com
Hiya Gang,

Lol, I'm writing a ton these days because I'm off to Paris and London at the end of the week, and will probably be without a computer. So I need to get all of this out of my system before I go, lol.

Anyways, it was mentioned over here about approaching people for tips. Now I might get banged on for this but I'm going to put it out there. I never work for tips alone. With one crucial exception: busking. (Click here for a video of me busking for the very first time- it's waaaaay different from celebrity parties, that's for sure!)

But we're not talking about busking, we're talking about a function or party environment. And here's the reason, in my opinion, why you don't work off of tips:

If you walk up to a table and tell them that you work off of tips and are not getting paid- you've basically hijacked their time. Give it some thought. Where will they go? Most people don't have the ability to get up and leave when they feel uncomfortable and will simply sit there miserable. They won't be thinking about your magic at all, but rather how much this is going to cost them. No fun. At all. Even if you're amazing, I can promise you all they're thinking of is what's the lowest amount that will make you not cause a scene. Harsh, but true.

It also puts you into a position of lower positional status. You've lost all credence of professionalism and probably come across as less than the wait staff (after all, at least they get paid). Compare this with, "Hi, I'm the magician here tonight and I've been paid by the host to absolutely blow your minds. Hold on!" or whatever your opening line is. This puts you in a great position of power because they feel that the host sent you. It would be rude of them not to have their minds fly out of their fingernails.

Now, that said, we need to get into a discussion some other time about whether you accept a tip, if one is offered. Another time, though.

So this all goes back to what I've been saying. Give yourself worth. You guys are awesome. I know it. I read your posts and have seen your videos. Everyone here on this forum can make a living at as an artist. So with that in mind, why would you not charge for your services?

And I'm pretty sure your answer for me is- "Jamie, I'm too young! Who's going to hire me when I'm only fifteen?!" My reply? They're right. You won't get hired...yet. But this isn't the time to try and get the money. This is the time to hone your craft, to build your skills, to become, really become, an artist. You don't walk into medical school looking to get paid by a patient for doing brain surgery. You go to learn how to become a doctor...

You guys rule. I mean it. Try not to worry so much and put in your time. It'll come back to you, when you're ready, a million fold.

All my best,

jamie
 
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RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
Jamie brings up a valid point, if the people at the table feel that you are requiring or wanting a tip, that is most likely what they will be thinking in their mind during your performance. "Oh crap, I only have 20 on me...I'm not giving this guy that." or "Oh...I only have two bucks on me...does that look bad to only give him two?" or "Whoops, only brought my debit card tonight".

Their minds will not allow them to relax and enjoy the entertainment that is being presented to them.

I have NEVER worked for tips in my life. I only do paid gigs and if the spectators offer a tip I politely decline UNLESS they offer it a 2nd time and insist on me taking it. That is just me though. I'm sure everyone does it different. That is why I make sure that when I am hired that I know I am going to make what I think is fair and worth my time.
 
Dec 23, 2007
1,579
4
36
Fredonia, NY
Hey jamie, great stuff, couple questions though. One did you pay much for the busking license and on that note, how important do you think getting a license is? if your refused one, should you chance it anyways haha. Also, where did you get that great portable table it was pretty nice looking
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
Truly enjoyed watching your busking video. Wow...that looked great for your first time busking. I like how easily you developed the crowd on Take 2 and 3. Nice work.
 

Jamie D. Grant

theory11 columnist
Oct 12, 2008
189
1
Vancouver
www.cardsinabottle.com
Hey jamie, great stuff, couple questions though. One did you pay much for the busking license and on that note, how important do you think getting a license is? if your refused one, should you chance it anyways haha. Also, where did you get that great portable table it was pretty nice looking

The license was free for the Olympics, actually. If a license is needed though, it's always best to get it- rather than dealing with the Po-po's. And the table was a custom job- it turned out well!

That was an amazing night. All my busking friends would always mock me for only doing cushy VIP parties and corporate stuff. They said that if I was a real magician, I should take it to the streets, lol. It was an absolute blast.
 
Dec 23, 2007
1,579
4
36
Fredonia, NY
I think i would choose between something like this
"No, really your too kind. If you enjoyed my performance that much allow me to give you something instead, my card and please keep me in mind in the future."

for a more comedic approach "im sorry, i cant accept tips without flashing back to that horrible accident on the pole *shudder* now where was i?"

another "Thank you but no, your generous host has already taken care of my financial needs, now let me take care of your magical ones" or something similar with a less tacky ending like " ....taken care of my fee, instead let me show you a little something interesting you can do with that bill...." go into money effect...
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
Hey Jamie, I LOVE reading your threads, they are a huge help. I have one question though. I am planning on going to Miami, and I'm from Europe, so can I get a busking licence as a tourist?
 
Jaime, great post and great advice. There are many workers out there who "hustle tips" for their pay and swear by it. I can't do it. I feel the same way you do above.

Refusing and accepting tips is touchy and an individual choice. I used to politely thank them and politely say that my performance is "courtesy of the house" and it became very awkward almost every time. I have since always accepted them graciously. Thanking and acknowledging that while it's not necessary it's certainly appreciated.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,066
6
First off, I've read about 4 of these essays now and I LOVE them! Fabulous advice in a pretty condensed span, great job.

Second off, I'm 18, and I'm looking to perform for some restaurants, either table hopping or entertaining people waiting in line (the wait at this certain place are fairly lengthy.) However, I haven't had a major gig before, I've done one party for pay, two office events (staff meetings on consecutive days in different offices, my mom got me the gig) for free, and other just on the spot stuff when someone requests an effect, as well as a handful of mall experience.

The table hopping is at a pizza parlor who had a magician there before but is now gone. I figured I could work Friday and Saturday nights from about 5-7 or 8, for about 30 bucks a night. The "in line" place typically has waits from 15-40 minutes. If I could cut someone's wait about ten minutes or so, that helps the venue by having happy customers who won't leave, as well as give me some money in my pocket, a win win. This would be about the same time frame and pay as the pizza place.

My rates seem low because my step dad said a restaurant isn't going to shell out 50+ bucks for a teenager to do some entertainment for two to three hours. I would like to know what your thoughts are on this, and how much should I charge? I feel like I have enough material (about two or three sets of three solid effects I could come up with) to entertain for good while, plus everyone I have performed for has praised me on my professionalism and skill. With all these factors, I feel like I'm ready to enter the market. I would like to get your opinion (or anyone else who has had restaurant experience) on my rate, hours, or anything else I have put here. Thanks!

Jacob
 
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Jacob, here's the deal. You need to take the plunge at some point and based off of what you've said you're right there. You'll never excel in performing and earning from it until you start to gain the experience of one actually doing the work.

I would NOT accept $30 a night for 2 hours, let alone 3. You'll be undercutting yourself and possibly the restaurant as a whole for any future performers. While your experience may be minimal, and you should charge accordingly, that's awfully low. Ask for $50, + dinner. I charge $100 + dinner for a similar venue. If your routines are honed enough they can be done at a paid gig then then they are good enough for at least that low rate. I asked for $100 a night my first restaurant gig and got it and I stayed there for almost 2 years. You'll find yourself climbing a steep hill if you sell yourself short to begin with.
The best advice I got on expressing the worth of my rate was to tell them what I'd normally charge for 2 hours of strolling at a private gig($250 for 2 hours), then to let them know that having me weekly it's worth it for me to give them that discounted rate of $100 a night for the regular work. They're getting a deal, you're getting the work - everyone's happy.

Why are you choosing Friday and Saturday nights? Is that when they had them before? Unless the restaurant has a customer satisfaction issue with it being to busy and too long of wait times for seating or receiving food, they don't need ya! It's already jammin!

Thursday night is a good night. It's not dead and not busy and a lot of people go out on Thursdays. The idea of having you there is to act as a draw to get people to go THERE instead of elsewhere. Sunday is also a good family day for dining.

2 hours is usually good, if the traffic is great enough you may try longer but I wouldn't count on it. And if you do, kick your rates up. Play with the 5-7; 5:30-7:30; 6-8. You DON'T want to be standing around from 5-6 if people don't start rolling in until 6. Figure out what works best THERE and go with it. Don't hesitate to change the times your there if you find that it's dead until 6, just discuss with management and work it out.

Just my 2...Good luck!!!
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,066
6
That's some great advice MAK, thanks!
I see what you mean by undercutting myself, I'm just not used to asking for money and usually feel bad when I do, plus my step dad's input might have been skewed since he has never done this before. I never knew that magic could be charged so much, but I'm not complaining. :D

Friday and Saturday would be for the Pizza place, I'm not sure about the other venue. They had a magician there on only Friday night, so I could do just Friday's also. Doing the double was the plan if I wanted to do only like one or two weeks a month, but being consistent sounds and looks better.

I appreciate all the advice, it gave me some great information to go in with. If it doesn't work out, then they are the ones missing out on great entertainment.
I'll start out charging 50 + dinner, seeing as how it's my first real thing.

Thanks again!

Jacob
 
Dec 2, 2011
1
0
London
Just checking in, while I'm on the road, and thought I'd toss out this question as something to think about:

When you politely refuse a tip, what exactly do you say?

I work in the bar and find in the UK most people do not tip. If I work exceptionally hard, then in the back of my mind I expect something and often it leads to disappointment. However, there are times when people are so lovely, or have made some type of impact on me that when they tip I refuse. I am very honest and will say, "I think... you are lovely and meeting you is more then any tip you can give" or something along those lines. Then there are the times when I entertain with magic, rather then taking a tip, I accept drinks; but when someone buys me a drink I feel I should sit with them. Only if I am driving will I accept the cash and not a drink.
 
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