The Direction of this Community

Status
Not open for further replies.
(This is not an attempt to impose my views on others, merely my opinion on what has been happeneing around T11 lately)


I'll be the first to admit that it is almost impossible to be the type of magician of the past, where you sit at a table all night and relay stories to your spectator while dressed in a tuxedo. With that said though, I do believe that we should take the performance skills of past masters and apply them to our new breed of up close and personal magic.

"Old magic"= Little technical skill (to the point where it was almost dull at times), All presentation
"New Magic"= Ima create a new control, sell it to Dan and Dave, make millions, make Youtube videos, and then occassionally perform for a spectator and the punchline of my patter will be "your card changes places with this one and thats it."

Magic shouldnt always be "ubER-viZul" and use the latest controls and clipshift finger flicking impractical color changes, but it shouldn't be that stereotypical guy who pulls coins from your ears while hes dressed all purdy. Magic should be interactive and personal, but the magician shouldnt focus so much on the technical aspects of magic that he forgets to present.

The fine line is this: A magician should have great technical skill, but in performance he should use about 10-20% of it, and infuse his finger skills with intricate presentation to create up close and personal experiences that come off as nothing less than a miracle.


Back on topic (for the 1st time) as most of you probably know, Theory 11 is usually regarded as the "laughing stock" of online magic communities. People on most other forums have a sort of stereotype about T11 where they think the members here are just a bunch of butt-kissing Youtube magicians. I used to think that as well and I wasn't very active here for a period of about 3 months, as I got fed up with all the "what deck should I buy?" "Tivo 2.10201892923billion92383247 variations" and all that.

But then...

Around mid-August I started visiting here more frequently again and what I've seen since then is astonishing. I think that members of this community are starting to get farther and farther away from the mentality of always trying to create a new control, or doing Dan and Dave tricks on cameras, but instead members are really starting to focus important aspects of magic, like the classic texts (Erdnase<3) and improving their performing skills. I see more and more threads everyday about "Oh i was performing the other day and such and such happened, how can I fix this?" or something like "What book should I buy if I want to work on my fundamentals?" And I personally believe that if we keep moving foward like this and focus on the important aspects of magic (Again, my personal opinion of "whats important to magic", no disrespect to others) we are going to create a whole new generation of magicians that can really produce quality magic and keep the art thriving for years to come.
 

CaseyRudd

Director of Operations
Team member
Jun 5, 2009
3,393
3,801
Charleston, SC
www.instagram.com
I most definitely agree Dan. Take Calen for example. He takes his skills, and from what he said on his roundtable discussion, he likes to have fun with people when he does his magic. Not only does he produce a nice quantity of effects, near all of them are quality, which is really impressive and has blown me away. I think if we all head towards the direction you stated then magic will still thrive and become even better like it used to be.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
39
Yorktown, VA
I have followed this community for about a year and a half now and I have noticed that the forums tend to go back and forth. Some times they are focused on sleights and other times they are focused on psychology. It is just one of those cycles that even happens in our regular life. And of course there are going to be discussions about the types of decks one should get because this isn't just a magic website. It is heavily dedicated to cardistry which is an art form of a visual nature. Different decks can do things to spice up a Sybil or what not. Visual card changes are great for this community, because it does wonders in a cardistry performance. Then you throw in the idea the community is growing in age and maturing, which will lead you to one direction- the fundamentals. I feel this forum is just flowing into the natural order of things, you just have to keep an eye out for the things that catch your eye. And if one doesn't like what he sees, he has two options: try and change it for the better or find another forum to kick with. I figure, with your post, you could do wonders in helping this forum go to the next level =)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 20, 2008
273
0
Austin, TX area
"Old magic"= Little technical skill (to the point where it was almost dull at times), All presentation
The "classic" school of thought on card magic placed extreme importance on the classic pass. I had a very nice talk with one of the long-time members of my IBM ring about this just a few weeks ago. He did not think that new magicians still cared to learn it!

Compare to the non-gimmicked method of Crush.

Expert at the Card Table wasn't just introduced to magic on the day Elussionist went online. Eugene Burger has a lot to say about about the quality of magic versus the level of skill required to perform it. Likewise, a lot of the "old guard's" face in the dealer's room at TAOM went completely blank when I said I was looking to move away from close-up! They had all their new street-ready effects lined up and ready to be sold -- and this guy with hair past his waist was looking drawer boxes, hank balls and stage-sized arm choppers! :D

While there is a lot more flourish being presented with cards these days, I really don't get the rest of the battle from either end. The old crowd did value skill very much. I would like to propose that the two camps have a lot more in common than either cares to admit.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
39
Yorktown, VA
While there is a lot more flourish being presented with cards these days, I really don't get the rest of the battle from either end. The old crowd did value skill very much. I would like to propose that the two camps have a lot more in common than either cares to admit.

I fear that some people may have forgotten one of Theory11's original mission- to combine the art of the new school magicians with the many lessons of the past magicians before us.
 

j.bayme

ceo / theory11
Team member
Jul 23, 2007
2,848
352
New York City
to combine the art of the new school magicians with the many lessons of the past magicians before us.

members are really starting to focus important aspects of magic, like the classic texts (Erdnase<3) and improving their performing skills.

This is a great and inspiring shift. It's important to remember that this community is large and made up of members of all ages and ability levels. While it's easy to dismiss a beginner post as NOOB, it's important to remember that a very short time ago, we all were in that position. We all started somewhere. So as members of this site and as experienced students of this artform, it is an imperative responsibility to engage and guide others as you guide yourself through this adventure.

Earlier in this thread, Casey mentioned Calen. Calen is someone that been doing magic a relatively short amount of time - a few years. But in that time, he has taken it very seriously: he has performed (real shows), he has worked (hard), and he has created - a LOT. If he only told you how long he has been in magic, he may otherwise have been dismissed. So it's important to realize that that NOOB that may be posting today may be a Calen Morelli or Daniel Garcia or Chris Kenner of tomorrow.

This community is composed of some of the most experienced practitioners of magic - from Dan White to Jason England to Steve Cohen to Luis de Matos. These guys are here - and even if they're not posting everyday in these FORUMS (which some do, time permitting), they are involved in guiding the direction of this site. Respect any opportunity to engage with them - whether that be in the forums, a podcast, or video like Jason England's What To Read.

That doesn't mean you must agree with everything they say - that wouldn't help anyone. Their experience and advice may not prove to be applicable to you. But listen to what they say and ask them questions to gain critical insight through their eyes and their experience.

I continue to believe, and I believe our success thus far has proven, that our goals are attainable. We can bridge the gap between the new generation and present generation to ensure the future of this artform. If we work together, and we are all focused on advancement, the sky is the limit.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
This is so true...

I must say that when I had my first convention, I was pretty excited to met the "best magicians" in my country...and when the convention has finished I was very, very dissapointed...it wasn´t because they didn´t know about new trick...is because they continue doing the same old crap that my grandpa used to do and worst....they refuse to change, to open their eyes to the new things (mostly because they don´t know english or others languages) and hate everything new (they hated that I flourish and when I told them I was starting to do mentalism all of them told me that I was wasting my time since mentalism wasn´t visual and it was boring) and that was when I decided to change the way people look at magic...I want to set the new standards and show that magic is not silly or full of gags (like 99% of the magicians I met) but also mystifing, funny, serious and everything this guys had avoided to do...

Also their "respect" for the art doesn´t make any sense to me...I mean things like: doing magic for people in a drunk state, charging a lot of money for half-hour crappy shows, doing heave criticism and belittle the new and young magicians, doing stupid patter and refusing to check the new books, dvds or forums and most importantly...being mediocre magicians...refusing to do anything new just because "for the audience (I say audience because they called the audience as****les) is the same"...

This is my goal..to change everything....
 
Jul 8, 2008
144
1
35
Tintagel
I would like to post my thoughts, over the time I have been here I have learnt a lot of interesting and wonderful things mainly from magicians such as Morgan B, Steerpike and Praetoritevong their posts have really inspired me. I feel that with out these generous people I wouldn't be at the level I am today a few years back I didn't understand and respect magic, internet forums are a great way to meet people, learn and start to advance. In the beginning there were a few companies that took interest in my tricks and wanted to market them, coming here helped me evaluate and actually see with a clear mind why I wasn't ready for such a step.

Now on to the main aspect of this topic there is far to much attention on the community, what is the community? Obviously the magic community but of all the magicians I have met young and old I have never matched the stereotype that so many describe here. I keep on seeing threads on the 'magic community' but I worry because no one has the answer as we are all individuals. In order to grow and develop a person must become individual allow me to say it this way, how can the community help you actively get a job they can't be there for you forever. Magicians are a minority we are individual and we cannot change as a whole the only sure way to develop is to branch out by yourself. Simon_Magic is a great example of this he has grown and improved so much in one year, I have tremendous respect for everything he has accomplished and I wish him the best. Everyone is different and as sad it is to say the newest young forum will be branded and stereotyped as 'immature' by some but remember we all are different with own skill sets and ideas, the community will not change but you will.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
37
Belgrade, Serbia
I have been in this community from day 1. And unfortunately, I have to say that direction in the beginning was a lot more promising than now. The standard went from really high, to really low, and now it's slowly started coming back up. Many of the great magicians, thinkers and helpers were here on these forums, but they stopped coming because they were overwhelmed with the amount of (metaphorical) walls they kept running into.
 
Oct 20, 2008
273
0
Austin, TX area
I continue to believe, and I believe our success thus far has proven, that our goals are attainable. We can bridge the gap between the new generation and present generation to ensure the future of this artform. If we work together, and we are all focused on advancement, the sky is the limit.
First of all, from what I can gather that T11's overall goal is, you guys are doing well. Even if I don't always go for it, I see a certain philosophy toward what you have done and continue to do.

As for internet communities - every one I have been to - I'm not going to mince words. I'm much happier at real life meetings than online, where everyone can anonymously point out that everyone is is "doing it wrong."
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
"Old magic"= Little technical skill (to the point where it was almost dull at times), All presentation

That's... debatable.

Back on topic (for the 1st time) as most of you probably know, Theory 11 is usually regarded as the "laughing stock" of online magic communities.

The Magic Cafe is still the worst, though this place has a very unflattering reputation.

I noticed when I popped in this week that it's less insipid than usual. A set of actually competent regulars have established themselves and people generally don't screw with them because they know they won't come out on top. I'm skeptical that a permanent paradigm shift has occurred however.
 
Aug 31, 2007
689
12
33
Lacey,Washington
It's strange how I don't notice these things as I've been with themagiccafe for a while. Themagiccafe is a great encyclopedia of awesome information on products/history. I'm enjoying my time there and here. I just recently joined murphy's magic community. Great layout for profiles and easy to navigate.

I get a lot of tips from performing professionals that are on the magiccafe. You can find anybody Jamie, Ran pink, Ben Harris, Cameron Francis is a regular, Peter Duffie, Craig Petty, Ben Williams, Paul Harris' Sister (janet), Sebastian H. (Subdivision Studios), Tony Curtis, Jamie D Grant, Tim Trono, Ted French, Jamie Daws, Colin Mcleod!!, Max Krause, Cosmo Salano, Bob Kohler, Lee Smith, G., Nefesch, David Regal..all within a couple pages

Not too mention the "Chef Special" 9 years of pro's Q&A Right now they have Professional : Jim Callahan.

They just recently had Eric Jones, John Guastaferro, Paul Vigil, Tyler Wilson, Tom Stone, Aldo Colombini...and in earlier years, Wayne Houchin, Jeff Mcbride, Losander, Jay Sankey, Scott Alexander, J.C. Wagner (RIP), Eugene Burger, Richard Osterlind, David Williamson, Darwin Ortiz, Whit Haydn...haha I don't think I need to list more. You get the point.

It's like a mini convention. I think you can tell how much I love themagiccafe

Theory11, I've met a few people through here and there has been some helpful feedback and encouragement. I was very happy to see Jamie D Grant hop on the forums to give his professional advice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
Yes lets do it for erdanase!!!!!!!!!! We are the future who's with me?

Not me. L2Spell. You insult Erdnase by spelling it "erdanse" or "erdanase". And the future should be able to do a decent looking double lift, or have decent patter.
 

towtox

Banned
Sep 4, 2010
162
1
Calgary Ab
ok well ya i need work on my d lift i havnt seen your work or anything so dont critize untill i see what you can do!
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
ok well ya i need work on my d lift i havnt seen your work or anything so dont critize untill i see what you can do!

Not everybody has money like you. I have problems in my life and I don't have money, and I'm too busy to work for some. And that is the worst **** excuse I have ever heard. Criticism and advice = criticism and advice. Seeing my double lift will not change how yours looked like in the past. Whether mine is worse then yours or better then yours, yours does not improve. I HIGHLY recommend Aaron Fisher's download on the double lift (at www.aaronfishermagic.com) and Jason England's download on the double lift (available here at theory11... http://www.theory11.com/tricks/double-lift-jason-england.php). I personally use a pinky count and a lift, the Dr. Daley instant double lift, or the Stuart Gordon double. I'm still working on my push-off double lift...

Although, technically, most double lifts are "double turnovers". <- Yep, learned it from Aaron Fisher's download. :D

On a slightly unrelated side... Can anyone imagine Aaron Fisher being in an Aquafresh commercial? Or perhaps the poster boy of the year for Colgate? I can't remember ever seeing him not smiling.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Yes lets do it for erdanse!!!!!!!!!! We are the future who's with me?

Who's we?

ok well ya i need work on my d lift i havnt seen your work or anything so dont critize untill i see what you can do!

In response to that stunningly whiny defense of your own incompetence, here's what I want you to do:

1. Make your hand into a hard fist.
2. Hold your fist out at eye-level with the knuckles facing toward you.
3. Holding your hand firmly in place, run quickly and forcefully toward your fist.

I and anyone else with even a lick of competence will criticize you whenever we please and you will listen to every word we have to say and like it. That is, if you actually want to improve and perform for something other than your webcam.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
37
Belgrade, Serbia
Who's we?



In response to that stunningly whiny defense of your own incompetence, here's what I want you to do:

1. Make your hand into a hard fist.
2. Hold your fist out at eye-level with the knuckles facing toward you.
3. Holding your hand firmly in place, run quickly and forcefully toward your fist.

I and anyone else with even a lick of competence will criticize you whenever we please and you will listen to every word we have to say and like it. That is, if you actually want to improve and perform for something other than your webcam.

How can you not love Steerpike after this post? It's brilliant, I'm still laughing after 20 minutes :D
Haha...

To go back on topic, this forum was once terrorised by BrianationX (anyone remember him?), now it's going to be towtox.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results