Controlling selection for sandwiches, collectors...

[SleightedMind]

Hey guys,

I was going through the forum and I was thinking about the idea of UnknownMagician93 : to peek the selected card systematically; doing so would permit you to accidentally lose your break. The idea is interesting, but I think it's potential is fully reached only when you DON'T take any break at all. However, you have to have a reason to look through the cards, and so the sandwichs/collectors plot are perfect for this :

1. Have a card selected, and peek it. (James Brown dribble action, as seen in his Card Under Box works perfectly for this!)
2. Lose it casually in the deck (NO BREAK, NO CONTROL).
3. Let the spectator shuffle.
4. Take the deck back, go through the deck and upjog your sandwich/collector cards, and, unbeknownst to the audience, cull the selection.

And that's, imho, the perfect control to the top: no misdirection needed, deck is shuffled by the spectator, no crimp, no palms...


I hope it's not considered as exposure, as no actual sleight is taught.

 

[joshrobarts]

its not a terrible idea and one ive played with a few times. The issue is i really dislike having to scan the cards faces after having a card selected. It really just doesn't appeal to me and in my opinion seems suspicious to some spectators. No by all means im sure it works for some people i just personally dont like it. The only effect i really like that involves scanning the cards are ones where the card is simply thought of. Dont get me wrong, im sure this presentation would work for a wide majority of people, but again, there are some who will suspect, and id much rather rely on my sleight of hand. A simple palm out would accomplish the exact same result and i wouldn't have to scan through.

 

[RikAllen]

And that's, imho, the perfect control to the top: no misdirection needed, deck is shuffled by the spectator, no crimp, no palms...

While I understand what you're saying, Josh has a good point, I could just as easily palm out the card or crimp it and the spectator would see the same or stronger effect without my having to scan through them (dead time) after they shuffle.

Some performers could easily pull it off, you'd need a 'Hold on, I forgot to get the Jokers out...' almost break character to do so and it will fly by most spectators. I don't do much in the way of sandwich effects when performing, I just haven't found a good presentation/justification for using two cards to find one card. :-/

 

[SleightedMind]

The thing is, you don't need to "forgot" to take the jokers out. If you have a clean peek, I think you can really emphasize it's impossible for you to know the card. However, you could either do "an other trick with the aces" or "try to find your card and I have two chances : the red aces? no ? then let me show you my second chance" or the classic "I need my assistants" and take the queens out. Lots of way to handle this

 

[vpatanio]

Page 115 of Card Magic for Amateurs and Professionals by Bill Simon has a nice little effect called "Helpers" that is basically a sandwich effect that utilizes a great variation of the side steal.

What the spectator sees is you removing two like cards (jokers, deuces, etc...) and place them face up on the deck. The spectator peeks a card and then in whatever manner you like, you can reveal that the pair sandwiched the selection. Done...no visible moves. It's a really nice idea.

-Vinny

 

[tokyoUW]

You are thinking like a magician, and not a laymen. In front of regular spectators, ones who are willing to enjoy the show and go along for the ride that you take them on, those spectators will not suspect the use of a control if you do it well. Therefor any option where you do NOT have to scan through the cards is better. Why give the spectators something to doubt and be skeptical about? Now of course there are some effects/ plots, where the scanning through of the deck adds to the effect, but a sandwich routine isn't really one of those.

In front of spectators that are skeptical about everything, using difficult sleights might not be a good idea, but peeking a card and then openly scanning through the deck is not any better. In my opinion, it is actually worse. You are going from something that will be harder to actually figure out to something that they can openly see and call you on, "YOU just looked through and found the card!". Little do they know that you peeked the card beforehand, but they are right on the money.

This is why, instead of habitually peeking the card, you should habitually force the card if anything so that the moment you want them to shuffle, there is no down time for them to suspect a peek. You sell the "I am going to look through and guess your card now," a bit better. If you miss the force, you use a practiced control.

 

[joshrobarts]

another great point i forgot about tokyoUW. In any situation a peek is good, a force is even better. Thats why every effect even unnecessary ones i use a classic force. I completely forgot that in this situation. Nice catch

 

[SleightedMind]

Interesting points TokyoUW, I need to get my classic force right now

 

[Cardeyron]

Always peek the spectator's card is a great idea, I thought to this when I started card magic and I often loose the card...

Another great way is the key cards. For instance, you have a key card under the deck, do a swing cut and tell to the spectator to replace his card. Complete the cut, do a overhand shuffle without disturb the center of the pack or simply a blind shuffle, and say "I'm going to tell you a secret, if the card should be found in the wallet, the pocket or something like that... she would be already remove from the pack. So, to proof I don't want to cheat you, I show you the cards again, check your card is still here." When you spread the pack in your hands, watch what card is placed before your key card, and remember her. I did this many times and I can assure you if it's well done, the spectators see nothing

 

[joshrobarts]

Always peek the spectator's card is a great idea, I thought to this when I started card magic and I often loose the card...

Another great way is the key cards. For instance, you have a key card under the deck, do a swing cut and tell to the spectator to replace his card. Complete the cut, do a overhand shuffle without disturb the center of the pack or simply a blind shuffle, and say "I'm going to tell you a secret, if the card should be found in the wallet, the pocket or something like that... she would be already remove from the pack. So, to proof I don't want to cheat you, I show you the cards again, check your card is still here." When you spread the pack in your hands, watch what card is placed before your key card, and remember her. I did this many times and I can assure you if it's well done, the spectators see nothing

ok.... i'll be honest the ONLY time i ever use a key card principle these days is with other magicians because so often does it catch them off guard and fry's them. But otherwise, there are really so many better options out there

 

[UnknownMagician93]

thank you for taking time to experiment with my idea. Although, I disagree with your statement. I use a peek in conjunction with a break because the peek is my failsafe. If I lose the break, I can switch to another effect or continue because I still know their card. If I ever loose the card, I usually set the deck down and stevens cull it to the correct position.