Advice for routines and character development please!

Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
Advice for Routines, character development and business ideas needed

okay, so BEFORE i start, im going to apologize in advance, for this is going to be a LONG read, i apologize for this, but i feel that i can get better answers if i ask better questions, so if your not the kind of person who doesn't mind taking a few minutes (okay, maybe quite a few minutes) to help a fellow out with some honest advice, well, thanks for stopping by anyways. also, i have a hard shell, and so i want the hard truth. i like it when i find out im wrong, it means i've learned something. also, i will try to start with an intro at the START, so that you can keep where im coming from in mind when looking at the routines, and i will try and categorize everything to make responses easy) okay, so here we go ***takes a deep breath***

okay. so, where to start?? well, lets start with a background, so you know where i'm coming from. my name is "Sia Ssnshyn Evydemenfranssaix Tessier Metta". I'm from ontario Canada. i left when i was 19 to live out of my back pack and hitchhike around british columbia (still in canada for those of you from abroad). i just turned 23, and i've been on and off the street ever since, very much by choice, i'm much happier when i'm leading a simple life. roaming around the country side, sleeping wherever i find myself sleepy. i've hitched down to san francisco from vancouver BC , and this past fall i hitched up to vancouver B.C. from nevada (from burning man) along the coast. i've been juggling and contact juggling for two years. and have done a little busking, and had the odd corporate gig. i love contact juggling for people because it seems magical, and they want to know how its possible because it doesn't look real…. and well, i LOVED it!! and thats how i decided, HEY, i've always LOVED watching magicians, and THIS is what they do for people, YEAH!!!! and so about a year ago i started learning magic, for the first 6 months i wasn't very serious, but this winter i decided to settle down and really take this seriously. so i got set up with some government funding, and hit the books. (expert at the card table and Roberto giobbi's card college series, as well as lots of forum reading about theory and psychology, and more recently hypnotism and NLP). and some downloads and dvds, such as jason englands double lift workshop, "lit", "smoke".

now, my purpose in life in general is to make people think more critically, think outside their comfort zone, and to push my way into their personal bubble, to make them question themselves, as well as do what i can to get them to question their belief systems, (not JUST religious.) i may agree with you that 2+2=4, but i will debate it, by saying that its all relative, and that while i know this to be true, some people may see it as 2+2=22, and if you step outside your ego for a second, you can see that from a certain perspective, it CAN make SOME sense. (i know thats a simplistic example, but it gets my point across). and i feel like magic is the PERFECT medium to help me make people think more critically, and make them question the world around them, as well as get adults imagination working again for at least a few minutes. and maybe even get them to play with me for a little bit. thats what i do with juggling, i have like 20 pounds of balls in my back pack, so that no matter i am, whether its in the park, or in the greyhound station, i can stand there and juggle, but more importantly, i can get grown men and women to peel off their armour and programming for a few minutes and learn how to juggle (in other words, PLAY!!! grown adults playing!!! who would thunk it) and thats why i know that the circus scene/ magic scene is for me, its just a butch of big kids with lots of toys!! :)
One of my BIG hurdles with Performance is i have really bad stage fright/ performance anxiety, but i'm working on that, slowly but surely. my biggest strengths are that im a GREAT mediator and teacher, i can VERY easily relate to other peoples experiences from THEIR point of view, and im a GREAT story teller, and will often captivate everyones attention, for a long, detailed story. (and thats not just my ego talking, always have people telling me how good a story teller i am once im done).

another big hurtle is that im a big black guy (6 feet tall, 200 pounds) with long dreadlocks, and LOT of piercings, and a big bone threw my nose! :)
i thought about cleaning up my look for the pursuit of magic, make myself a BIT more approachable, and i still might eventually, but for now, my thought on the matter is that i want to make people second guess their surroundings, and i LOVE the fact that most people are afraid of me until i open my mouth, and they realize my name is Ssnshyn (sunshine), and im all smiles and giggles, hugs and high fives, high energy, lots of play, and sure i have a lot of tattoos, the most of them are HEARTS!!! (at the moment i have like 23 hearts on my body, with more to come)
now, i've been thinking, later on in life i would like to use this, and my age (im talking like 10 years from now) to my advantage, and go to haiti for 6 months to learn about voodoo and get an accent (i don't have a first language, i speak french, and i speak english, and that works in my favour since their is a lot of french in haiti), and make a character around that, a witch doctor type thing, with no cards, lots of animal productions (doves, pigeons, rats, mice, maybe some snakes), and lots of magic happening that i don't really comment on, just, you know, making stuff vanish just to get rid of it, but not bringing any attention to it, as if its completely natural.

ANYWAYS, back on topic. as far as business goes, i want to be a juggling instructor, it really is what i do best. teaching at highschools and at fairs, sports teams, and maybe even small business's for team building. i want to do extra work for movie sets and stuff (already have some experience), do contact juggling for corporate events as well as on the street. --in the far future, with my voodoo character, i could gather a crowd with my crystal ball, maybe even figure out a way to actually make it float between my hands for a few second ;)-- and i want to do magic for busking, and maybe more when that time comes (i have absolutely no "dream" of having a stage show, i have no interest)

so, my question is, im starting to set up my whole juggling instructor thing, and i cant figure out whether i should keep them separate or not. im thinking i would like to have ONE site, that way, when i give people my card, they go on my site, and there is two buttons to press, one says object manipulation, and one says conjuring (or whatever), and that could give me extra opportunities. they go on there for one thing, but then refer me to someone else for the other, and vice versa. my only concern is that seems kind of tacky. especially since im not a comedy juggler, and don't really want my magic to be comedy based (of course i'll crack some jokes and stuff, but i'm just not a comedian and i know that. ) and i don't really want to mix the two.
so basically, so for moment, and foreseeable future, i want to do all this to make a living while traveling (which isn't hard since the way i live i need less than 10 dollars a day to live comfortably, at least while im on the road. but if i can make REAL money, well, that means i can buy plane tickets and travel abroad, and that would be nice)
so thats the business part, any thoughts???

***takes a deep breath and exhales strongly**** whew, okay. NEXT. ***takes a deep breath****


alright, well, as far as my character NOW, well, i'm not quite sure, because i need to perform more. i volunteer at a local at risk youth drop in centre once a week teaching juggling, and thats most of the people i've performed magic for. (remember, i'm still a newb).

i'm not gunna lie. im not super confident with my magic yet, (i performed on and off for a few hours at a corner store the other night, and performed for some random strangers, and looking back, my hands weren't really shaking, i was just having SO much fun, which is CRAZY, and even pulled of kaos by DG) so i was thinking that it would be very useful and very fun to play myself, but a little more confident, but at the same time, a little more unsure, what im saying is, i want to react to the magic a bit with the spectators… while doing the biddle trick i could say, "and now, if i take these 5 cards, and just snap them in the middle **snap** i can make your card flip over, see…… uuuumm, k, wait, i did something wrong, their all still face down, but one is missing, uuum, crap, k, wait, are any of these your cards. damn, well, sometimes this happens, its no big deal, wanna just look threw that deck your holding, see if its in there somewhere"
or do a transpo in their hands, and when they freak out that they are holding a different card, i could look kinda confused, and say something like "well, huh, i WAS trying to make it turn up in your underwear, but HEY, that works too"

so yea, thats the performance im leaning towards for the moment, because i think it would be fun, lend to the magic, and, it puts me at ease, because if i ACTUALLY feel unsure at any point, i don't have to cover it up (which makes me more nervous) i can just let it out, and its totally in character, and flows with everything, and ALSO, if i DO actually screw up for any reason, well, they think its part of the trick, and it makes it that much easier to save my ass.
 
Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
so, that being said, a few weeks ago, i was writing down possible routines, and patter and such, and they looked something like this

blushing cards
2 card monte
french kiss

daleys revenge (DG)
sandwich
devided

time machine
triumph
witness

but now that i've ACTUALLY SHOWN my magic to people, i realize that for the moment, i want to stay away from gimmicked stuff, so i can focus on my presentation and misdirection (which, while im not saying its easy for everything, misdirecting as far as minor things like false cuts and false shuffles, turning over a card, set ups for rubber band stuff, is SOOOOOO much easier than i thought, and i know it will be harder for a big crowd, but still, its nice that SOMETHING is easier than i thought it would be!!). so yeah, definitely want to stick to more impromptu stuff (and save all the hard hitting gimmicked stuff for encores) so i can focus on my presentation, and also, i want to learn more non card and non rubber band stuff. but that still uses spectator participation, and i've been staying away from my spongeballs because i didn't think i could pull them off (character wise, not sleight wise), i've decided that **** it, people will love it, and thus, i can pull it off. do a little routine ending with putting two red balls in their hand, tacking my third red ball, and visually changing it into a yellow one, then tapping it on their hand four times, so when they open their hand they are holding four yellow sponges, or something like that.

so, now that i have reevaluated with a LITTLE experience, i'm thinking something along the lines of this:
(i will categorize it so that it can be easily referenced, also, keep in mind my type of unsure/confused patter)
(another thing to remember is that for the moment, i'm just learning the ropes, meaning i''m not ready for any kind of real street show, that being said, for the moment its just gunna be for people i know, and some hit and run guerilla tactics --not because i'm a blain or angel wanna be, but because i'm not ready for an actual crowd, and the best way to learn is to perform, so if i gotta be a guy at the bustop waiting with you whose got a few sweet tricks so be it. i gotta perform one wait or another, its the only way i'm going to learn what works and what doesn't)

routine 1:
a)ACR
b)stairway
c)stigmata


routine 2:
a) 2 card monte
b)triumph
c)transposition in their hand


(spectator pics card A, then i shuffle, and with a SNAP your card rises to the top, oh, wait, thats not your card, this is "card B", well, okay, hold this for a second, say stop where you think your card is, THATS your card?! oh, its not, well, THATS where you told me to stop!!!, hmm, okay, how bout this, **insert color change here** oh, what the? this is card B, the one your holding, but….. if this is the card i gave you, whats in your hand?. YOUR SELECTION, wow, i have no idea how that happened, but OKAY then!! mamm, you should think about being a professional pick pocket, i don't know HOW you did that, but that was SLICK! )

routine 3:
a)biddle
b)sleight of foot
c)CMH + vanishing band


(section B would go like this " OKAY, does anyone have a toonie (canadian 2 dollar coin, its silver with golden centre), all right, (remove a chain from my neck that has a metal right of about 2 and a half inches in diameter on it. remove the ring), inspect the chain for me please, its normal right, well, i hope so, because it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this trick, inspect the ring, its solid right, and you gave me the toonie, so you KNOW ITS real, alright, would you be impressed if i could pass solid right through solid, that would be pretty impressive right, put one RIGHT through the centre of the other, alright, but im only going to do it once because its REEEAALLLLY hard, and i don't want you to figure out how i manage to do it. alright, hold the ring for me, just like that (parallel to the ground) okay, watch REALLY closely, this has taken YEARS of hard work and dedication. watch carefully. (and that point i simply drop the coin through the ring and catch it) BAM!! did you SEE that". lol (well, i think it would be funny, i have yet to try this out on someone), and then, WITHOUT bringing any attention to it, do the thing where you drop the chain through the ring, and then drop the ring, and it hooks itself onto the chain, so its a little magical moment, but since i didn't say anything about it, people aren't sure how or even WHAT just happened (as they say, the magic is in the little details). and at that point, i would move on to sleight of foot. basically card to mouth, except you place the coin under your foot, and walk around on your heels while showing your hands, empty, and then slowly flatten your feet, and then everyone gets confused, until they look up and realize its in your mouth.) and then maybe do a small coin routine, just, one coin, couple quick vanishes and productions)

routine 4:
a) (not sure yet)
b)either a coin routine or a spongeball routine
c)ASR (ambitious sandwich routine)


now with all these, and all the other stuff that i REALLY like. (fresh scent, witness, french kiss ext.) i already KNOW its too much, but im slowly carving it down, i've already put aside a lot of tricks, you know, stuff that im going to practice every once in a while, but put no importance on. and stuff like the "other" stuff i just mentioned, which i will still practice, and eventually use as finale's when the setting is right.

***DEEP breath and EXHALE***

alright, thats what i got so far, any advice would be great.

so, just to recap:
thoughts on having it as one business name/card or two. (im thinking one site and two cards). (the reason im thinking about this now is because of the name, if i decide i would like them combines, then i want to pic a business name that is slightly vague.

advice on my character (please don't focus on the voodoo thing since thats a long term future thing).

advice on routines

like i said, be brutally honest. Also: like i said, i know this is to much, i'm cutting it down, slowly but surely.


p.s. when i say government funding, its just my fancy way of saying i weaselled my way onto welfare so that i could focus my attention on studying magic :)





thanks in advance for you responses!
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
That's a long thread and a pretty long name as well... But hey, you gave fair warning, right?

I'm conflicted about the website. Some people do it, and some people don't. For example, magicians often have a private magicians section on their public pages. However, many others prefer to have an entirely separate page, especially when the subject is different. I think ultimately it comes down to personal preference. As long as it's done professionally, there's no reason why either way should harm you per se - it just depends on what you're comfortable with. Since the two things are relatively related, I don't think it would be a problem to have them on the same site, but that's just me.

As far as your persona goes, well first it's good that you're actually thinking about it. Honestly, I'm not too flash on how you've described your personality. It's very difficult to pull off convincingly. When you typed out your patter, it honestly just sounded like 75% of YouTube hack magicians' "patter" - people narrating what they're doing without the slightest idea of how to speak properly (and way too many umms and ahhs). So I'm honestly not terribly fond of what you've described. Having said that, the idea can definitely work. I think that you can convey your persona, but in a different way. Instead of being verbally incoherent, try simply being coherently confused. Show it through your facial expressions and through your personality. Just be careful about how it comes across. I would be able to form a firmer opinion by watching you perform unfortunately, online it's difficult to convey something as complex as performing and personality.

As far as your routines go, again, it sounds like you've got lots of ideas which is great, although it doesn't read well due to the medium. I would simply say, be aware of why you're putting those effects together. Keep in mind what you're trying to achieve, and make sure your routines have rhythm. Otherwise it just looks like what's sometimes called a "Dealer Demo" style of routining - simply showing off all the tricks that you know. There has to be some glue binding them, or you're just showing off tricks.

Hope this helps!
 
wow what a read! I was expecting some miindless vapent question like what name should I use with no further illaboration, but man I was wrong. I really want to diguest this post and give a good reply, but I'll wait till morning when I can get on my comp and not use my cell. Consider ttis a placeholder.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
wow, thanks praetoritevon. hmm, about the site, i guess that whole "link" thing might be a better idea, just have a link for the other on each site. that makes sense. at the same time tho, i kind just wanted to have ONE company name, hmmm, this is going to take a lot of thought, thankfully i'm in no hurry!!!

secondly, yeah, i agree that how i presented the speech doesn't sound to good, but i think i was trying to convey the body language through typed hums and ha's, BUT, thank your for pointing it out, because now its much more at the forefront of my mind.... coherently confused, VERY good call, now i have a more SOLID vision of what i was trying to get at.

i was up will 5am last night developing my acr, and i'm REALLY happy with it, but now i'm questioning myself. because at the beginning after they pick the card, i do a shinobi control to bring it to the top, while a card (they assume theirs) is still sticking out, and then i say, oh, i forgot to get you to sign it, would you mind? and then as im reaching for my sharpie with one hand i bring the deck closer to them and right before they grab the card, i push it into the deck with my index finger (same hand holding the deck) and then do a one handed turn over of the card. and act as if nothing happened as i pass them the sharpie. its the NEXT two phases im questioning now. then i put the card in the middle, and cut the deck twice, and snap my fingers, and say that "it goes to the bottom". turn the deck over, and its not the card, a confused look passes over my face as i turn the deck face down again, and turn over the top card, then a look of irritation comes on my face, and i sigh annoyingly. then i shuffle some more, and say, " ok, THIS time when i snap my finger your card turns itself face up" and AS im going threw the cards i gradually say "somewhere... near the centre.... ish.... but somewhat near the bottom, in fact, the very bottom" (all the while sounding VERY unsure and doubtful), then flip the deck face up, and act confused again, then really annoyed, as i turn the top card face up, and its their card. and then i just do another like 6 phases, all the while apologizing, explaining that this happens sometimes, and its really annoying, all the while it just gets more and more impossible.
 
Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
wow what a read! I was expecting sme miindless vaoent questioon like what name should I use with no further illaboration, but man I was wrong. I really want to diguest this post and give a good reply, but I'll wait till morning when I can get on my comp and not use my cell. Consider ttis a placeholder.

im looking forward to it :)

i was kinda hoping you would catch wind of this and reply **blushes like a schoolgirl** lol

whenever i see one of your responses to something i read very carefully, your very thorough, knowledgeable and helpful :)
 
Hello Sia Ssnshyn Evydemenfranssaix Tessier Metta! First and foremost, welcome to the forums, I know you've got a few posts to your name by now, but still a formal welcoming is (and should be) required.

You've got a very well put, but long post up there, and I'm going to do my best to summarize, digest, and reply addressing your concerns the best that I can.

First off, from what I can tell you're asking two questions that I would consider myself to be slightly educated on the matter of. Marketing, and Characterization. I have a sales and marketing background, prior to my magic, and I've been going through the creative process of developing my own character and brand the past few years so I may be able to offer some insight.

At the risk of tooting my own horn here, I do have two essays written for this forum that I've posted (and are searchable) that you may want to consider.

+ "How to Get Gigs, and Keep Clients" - a marketing resource for magicians.
+ "You've Got Talent" - a character creating/ building resource.

You may also want to consider "The Hook" thread too...

I think you'll find some good information in those threads that you'll be able to use.

The reason why I bring up The Hook is because it sounds like you have a very striking image just as is. Do you clean it up, alter it a bit, or run with it, is a question you'll have to answer for yourself. I think that as long as you can justify either with blatant words, or be non-verbally expressive with your actions then most audiences will let you get away with murder. Frankly there is something that just makes me interested in listening to anything a tall big black man with a bone through his nose has to say.... but that may just be me. The point is to let yourself be who you are, and be willing to make flexible alterations for situations as needed.

In The Hook I discuss having something unique about your appearance that naturally draws people into conversation with you, making them open the doors that you'll gladly walk through. A Hook can be anything. From my Indiana Jones fedora with the Ace of Diamonds stuck in the brim, to your bone through nose. You have a hook, you just need to know how to use it better.

As for your website, I don't really think you NEED to keep separate entities for your different services, I think you can get away with having them all on one site. Think of it like this, you're not selling the service, you're selling yourself performing the service. The product is you. The service is what you do. It's like Action punch GI JOE and Action Kick GI JOE. Both are GI JOE, but one punches instead of kicking. The only time ~I~ (and I stress the I) would separate the services offered is if the performer entity is radically different. Example: A Goth sideshow performer offering an hour long ten in one sideshow who also does church shows. In that case I would certainly use separate websites, emails, and what not. But for your purpose I don't see it as a need.

I think once you start answering the questions about who YOU are, and what services YOU offer, your routines will start to become something that will sort themselves out. However, I can address that in a different post. For now, I've given you enough to think about.
 
Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
okay, maybe i dont know how to use the search feature, but i can find any of those, i had to look threw all the post you've started to find the first two, (but i found them), but i cant find the the hook. link??

also, as far as routining goes, i was just wondering if my beginning middle end makes sense, i know it has more to do with the presentation than the tricks, but for right now i'm still learning presentation, so i would hope that at least the tricks thread together logically (as fas as intro middle end goes)
i know they will change over time, it just the whole. KNOW your tricks in and out, be able to do them in your sleep thing. i dont want to sit there thinking about what effect to do next (like i have been) i want to be able to just say to my self, hmmm, okay, routine 3 seems fitting *puts in vhs, and hits play, body sits back, relax's, and watches*, mind can focus on presentation and interaction

what you say about the site also makes sense, like i said, i'm glad i have time to mull it over.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
Few things first:

1. It's spelt praetoritevong!!!!!

2. I love how you're already thinking beyond just doing the magic, I.E. psychology of spectators, routining, etc. Puts you above most of the guys on this forum already, even from just a theoretical standpoint.

I'd give you some help, but I'm about to go. I'll post a bigger reply later (if you want, I'm not so good with advice).
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Rule number 1: Do not tell me what you're going to do and then do it. I do not need a blow-by-blow. My eyes work just fine.

Rule number 2: Don't explain everything to me. It works better if you leave some space for my imagination to fill in the gaps.

The problem I see here is that you have this distinctive, dynamic appearance, but what comes out of your mouth is generic and forgettable. There's really no personality in the scripts you gave. There's no distinctive lexicon or voice. All the finger snapping and explanations just grind into my head and live up to the stereotype of a magician but fail to leave any impression beyond that. It's a major disappointment to see a guy who looks like some sort of urban vagabond shaman... who then talks like Gob from Arrested Development.

Also, what few themes you have you over play. The ACR for example has you uncertain of your own competence, but you run it into the ground. It's played for laughs the first time, but then it just keeps going, endlessly restated. The comedic effect wears off because you have one serving of setup, but like 10 servings of punchline. If you want to make that a motif, you need to use it more sparingly, with more restraint and tact. Harold Loyd played a well-meaning screw-up in most of his movies, but he always found interesting and various ways to express that. He didn't simply reuse the same gags over and over again. We also had to have scenes of him turning a bad situation good or doing something right, otherwise he'd come across as a buffoon and possibly a threat to himself and everyone around him. Now that I think of it, that's a common pitfall I see a lot of young, wannabe comedy writers getting tripped up on. They create these characters who are supposed to be goofy, unpredictable and lovable, but instead are so unrelentingly incompetent and accident prone that they come across as mentally retarded at best, sociopathic at worst.

(sigh) I think this train of thought kind of ran away with itself as I'm getting on some weird tangents. To sum up, I don't really have a sense of you as a person in your scripts. Your image says one thing, but your scripts are utterly devoid of personality. The lack of congruence is difficult to get past. Your lexicon tells people certain things about you, but so does your appearance. The best performers endeavor to make sure that the two are congruent with one another in order to create a very memorable and recognizable persona.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Few things first:

1. It's spelt praetoritevong!!!!!

2. I love how you're already thinking beyond just doing the magic, I.E. psychology of spectators, routining, etc. Puts you above most of the guys on this forum already, even from just a theoretical standpoint.

I'd give you some help, but I'm about to go. I'll post a bigger reply later (if you want, I'm not so good with advice).

Ah heck, he only forgot the last g - that's a lot better than most!

Steerpike and Will Draven both have some really good advice, though... Oh, and as Draven said - it's refreshing to see some good questions :)
 
Nov 8, 2010
38
0
Vernon B.C
Rule number 1: Do not tell me what you're going to do and then do it. I do not need a blow-by-blow. My eyes work just fine.

Rule number 2: Don't explain everything to me. It works better if you leave some space for my imagination to fill in the gaps.

The problem I see here is that you have this distinctive, dynamic appearance, but what comes out of your mouth is generic and forgettable. There's really no personality in the scripts you gave. There's no distinctive lexicon or voice. All the finger snapping and explanations just grind into my head and live up to the stereotype of a magician but fail to leave any impression beyond that. It's a major disappointment to see a guy who looks like some sort of urban vagabond shaman... who then talks like Gob from Arrested Development.

Also, what few themes you have you over play. The ACR for example has you uncertain of your own competence, but you run it into the ground. It's played for laughs the first time, but then it just keeps going, endlessly restated. The comedic effect wears off because you have one serving of setup, but like 10 servings of punchline. If you want to make that a motif, you need to use it more sparingly, with more restraint and tact. Harold Loyd played a well-meaning screw-up in most of his movies, but he always found interesting and various ways to express that. He didn't simply reuse the same gags over and over again. We also had to have scenes of him turning a bad situation good or doing something right, otherwise he'd come across as a buffoon and possibly a threat to himself and everyone around him. Now that I think of it, that's a common pitfall I see a lot of young, wannabe comedy writers getting tripped up on. They create these characters who are supposed to be goofy, unpredictable and lovable, but instead are so unrelentingly incompetent and accident prone that they come across as mentally retarded at best, sociopathic at worst.

(sigh) I think this train of thought kind of ran away with itself as I'm getting on some weird tangents. To sum up, I don't really have a sense of you as a person in your scripts. Your image says one thing, but your scripts are utterly devoid of personality. The lack of congruence is difficult to get past. Your lexicon tells people certain things about you, but so does your appearance. The best performers endeavor to make sure that the two are congruent with one another in order to create a very memorable and recognizable persona.


wow, thanks steerpike! (not sarcasm), well, thats just the thing, im still MAKING my patter. i dont have much performance under my belt, but i see what you mean, that being said, i typed it like that just to give you an idea of the moves, more than the patter, also, the way i do it it suposed to be a little bit of a rollercoaster, 1phase "wtf, he didnt even do anything, HOW did he do that" 2nd and 3rd phase" uuum, he seems really unsure of himself, wow, this guy might not be as good as i.. whoa, wait, how, what?" phase 3,4,5 (happen really fast, as if im annoyed, im not really bringing attention to it, im just kind of doing it like "argh, god, SEE. i dont know WHY, its so irritating" phase 6,7. (slow downt again, put the card in the middle of one pack, then put that pack in the middle of the other pack, come to the top, then put the card in the left hand pack, and say "well, what do YOU think this top card of the left hand pack will be ---once again, i dont actually SAY that, im just saying that now to get the point across on here--. NOPE not your card, cuz thats the bottom half of the deck, its all the over here, makes NO sense, aargh." and then do the bent card thing where you put it in the middle, and it bounces to the top.

so im not Fumbling and getting it wrong the whole time, just phase 2 and 3, then 456 happen REALLY fast, without bringing much attention to them, and then slow down again as it gets more and more impossible.

im not really going for pure comedy, starts out as such, but then goes off into misterious. i dont wat to be OVERLY theatrical, i want to seem actually annoyed, going so far as to appolagize. (sorry for bad grammar)
 
Sep 1, 2007
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It's a matter of personal preference, but I don't really like ACRs that go beyond 3 or 4 phases. I'm a screenwriter, so I tend to think in terms of 3's.

As for mixing comedy and mystery, what we do is mystery entertainment when you get right down it. Being funny with it is actually much harder than people think it is. I posted on my blog once a tweet from Kevin Murphy of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and RiffTrax. It was as follows:

A hazard of my work - did extensive research into the career of Ashlee Simpson. Used said research for a single joke. You're welcome.

That's what it takes to be funny. Audiences never see all that work in the finished product, but the fact remains that comedy is actually one of the most difficult things in the world to write, even if all you're trying to do is add a dash of comic relief.

As for theatricality, isn't acting a part of that?
 
Nov 8, 2010
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Vernon B.C
about what you say about only liking a few phases, i understand your logic behind that completely, and will keep it in mind, try a few different things.

as far as comedy goes, i agree completely, when i first started thinking about performance i wanted to stay away from it. but thinking about it, it seems like when it comes to busking, well, there will be laughter regardless, even if only because people react to magic with laughter, even when its astonishing, and not funny by any means. so it seems that it should be easier, (NOT easy, just ever so slightly easier) to push that, and take advantage of that. but like i said, i do agree with you, and thats why im thinking of keeping comedy in mind, but not "relying" on it. but, as i've said, i'm speaking from a place of little to no experience.

as for theatrical, i just don't want to come off as an actor, i either want to come off as ME (obviously with a few dials turned up a bit), or as a very clear character (voodoo thing). but once again, im speaking from lack of experience, so maybe im just dreaming, and once i get some experience i will smarten up, i'm completely open to that as well.... (i like being wrong, it means i've learned something)
 
Aug 17, 2010
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Buskers say "funny is money", but that doesn't mean it has to be a comedy act.

They also say "GTFM" for 'get the ... money'.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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as for theatrical, i just don't want to come off as an actor,

There's the rub. Good acting doesn't look like acting. We don't look at the screen, see Harrison Ford say, "It belongs in a museum!" and think about his acting. We're thinking, "Yeah, Indy! Kick his ass!"

As for laughter, to put it in a biological context, it's a device we developed for breaking tension. When you laugh, your endocrine system gets a signal from the brain to release endorphins, relaxing your muscles and generating a small euphoria. This breaks the feeling of anxiety and stress and replaces it with a feeling of calm. The reason it takes the form of audible laughter is because it was a signal to the group that danger had passed and everyone could relax. By laughing together, the group not only released their anxiety but also formed a bond reaffirming that they were all in this together.

Magic is mystery entertainment heavily based on a strong sense of buildup leading to an inevitable payoff. You're going to get laughs out of that. The trick is timing them correctly. Comedic timing is very important and also a difficult skill to develop because the only real way to practice it is in the crucible of live performance. Trust me, there are certain jokes I use in my shows that took me months if not years of testing before I finally settled on the version I use today.
 
Nov 8, 2010
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Vernon B.C
hmm, timing is everything, yeah, thats going to take a while to learn for sure.

P.S. performed my acr like an hour ago, and you were ABSOLUTELY right, WAY too long. :)

P.P.S. im STRONGLY considering getting cellinis the art of street performance dvd in the next day or two, i decided instead of getting more card stuff that I like, i should be thinking about OTHER things, diversify, and i also wanted to get some literature on performance psychology. but seeing as how in two months i'm going to be on the road again (hitchhiking around canada and maybe a bit of the states as well). i didn't want to get a whole bunch of books to carry, and i didn't want to spend too much money, and art of street performance trilogy seems to be the right bet, any thoughts?
 
Aug 17, 2010
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By all means, drop me a line if you make it to Toronto.

Kozmo's Tales from the Streets is pure gold. His breakdown of his show, the analysis of what makes a good busking act is dynamite.

As far as books to carry around, Strong Magic and Designing Miracles are well worth the effort.
 
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