Some coin questions

[Jacob L]

Note: I put this here because more people look in general discussion than the coin magic forum, please forgive the purposeful misplacement.

I plan to slowly start my way into coin magic, because the sleights there help with organic magic. One of the best coin effects I've seen is Digital Dissolve. I don't like the whole "where is the coin" style, because that doesn't seem like magic. That seems to be a big downfall of coin magic, since most spectators seem to know the basic idea of keeping the coin in other hand. That aside, I'm looking for coin magic that breaks that norm, such as DD, scotch and soda, coins across, and the like. So, I have a few thoughts regarding this.

1. I know Bobo's coin magic is always beign reccommended, but on wizard product review, they say that the way the material is explained in that book is outdated, and there are better alternatives for a beginner like myself. Does anyone know of such material I should look into?

2. For effects like sctoch and soda, and DD, I'm assuming very minimal sleight of hand is used. For a coins across, however, you nee a little more dexterity. So should I learn the whole "where is the coin" principle before moving on to such effects? Even if the coins across uses shells? This is a very ignorant question, as I'm guesing the same thing applies to card magic: you learn how to shuffle normally before a false shuffle, how to cut before a false cut, how handle cards before flourishes, ect. If so, what do you reccommend as the essential foundation coin sleights out there?

3. What's the take on shells? If shells are to coins as gaffs are to cards, I don't know if I'm that interested. However, if they make the learning process easier as well as some effects easier, as I've heard, I wouldn't be so oppossed. Are shells good for beginning coin magic? Also, I'm guessing I can just get them online, but where do you guys suggesst I can get some better quality shells?

4. Back to the original question. If I get DD and have NO other coin magic experience, should I perform it? Is it good enough to perform, and then end with it? Or what if they ask for more coin magic? It would be hard to put it into a routine without other effects, right? Otherwise I'm pulling out two coins, doing the effect, putting away the coins, and then pulling out cards or whatever else I'll do.

I appreciate those willing to read this and respond with some advice. Sorry if this seems like a repeated thread, I did my best to not be too general with it. Thank you.

Jacob

 

[Icecool]

Hi man! Im also into coin magic! Amateur tho.. Bobo`s is great for basic techniques, yes its old but much havnt changed in the very basic of moves. The series David Roth`s Expert Coin Magic made easy, is good also. The living legend (David) begins with the basics and has all the classics like Coins across, Coins through table and so one. Another good dvd is Eric Jones Metal. Hope this helps. A bout shells, im not using mine in my tricks, but others would recomand this, so maby another could answer this.

Erik.

 

[Chris W]

My personal opinion on coin magic is that it can amazing when done correctly. The problem is that most people post a video with music and no patter. Or they perform it and just say "And the coin disappears!" Well the logical explanation to a spectator is it's in the other hand. My big thing is when you do a routine, make it interesting with patter. Talk about something that would be interesting so they are following a story while you do your sleights. Then the spectators are thinking more about being entertained than about where the coin actually went. And never, as Darwin Ortiz talks about in his book Strong Magic, challenge the spectator in any way. Just make it fun and entertaining.

As for Bobo's, its worth the cheap price. It might be old but there are awesome things in it. I would also recommend Metal by Eric Jones. It's awesome. He goes into great detail of sleights and palms, as well as some good routines to work on.

I hope this helps.

 

[WilliamMckeehan]

My advice is learn the tricks you LIKE to perform and learn the sleights that match the tricks you like. But from my experience people like "Flurry's" ( a series of vanishes and productions ) Then you can end with a jumbo production or a deck of cards or anything like that. But if performed smoothly and with entertaining patter people would probably be very interested. I think it's because people always hear of coin magic but never really see it in front of there face.

Either way good luck with your coin magic!

 

[JButterfield]

The effects you mention don't break the norm, the are the norm.

1. Bobo's Modern Coin Magic is still, dollar for dollar, the best way to go. It's around twelve bucks, and it's literally years' worth of stuff in there. Yeah, the language is not the best or most current, but the effort will be well rewarded. As far as DVDs, David Stone, David Roth, Michael Ammar and Eric Jones have products for beginners.

2. Yes and no - S&S and DD are gaffed coin sets that are all but self working. Other gaff sets you may want to look into is Copper Silver Brass, and Hopping Halves. Coins Across covers a a lot of ground (I mean, just off the top of my head, I know 10 or 12 coins across routines - some with gaffs, some without). Some of them are easy, some are awfully difficult.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "where is the coin principle".

Essential sleights (I'd guess) are finger palm, classic palm, false transfer, shuttle pass, retention of vision pass, click pass, utility switch, Bobo switch. There's a bazillion others, but you can certainly get by with these.

3. As far as shells and other gaffs, I use whatever makes for the best magic. I perform for real people, and I just don't feel right about not putting on the best show I can just to feed my ego, especially about something they don't know exists.

Of the coins across routines I know, the strongest one uses a shell, so that's the one I use in my busking act to build the tip. Why would I use the second strongest routine? Remember; it's only magicians that care about method, and I never perform for them (they're lousy tippers and they are never impressed).

As far as making the learning process easier, I don't know if gaffs do that - they make some effects stronger, but can make a routine more challenging as you have something extra to clean up.

And it's not either/or - gaffs compliment sleight of hand, they don't replace it. You still need sleight of hand.

4. Sure, you can do just one coin trick (and it's a great way to do a deck switch). Makes a nice change of pace.

I do a three ball routine, and it's the only thing I do with superballs... it's not really a problem.

 

[Jacob L]

Awesome, thanks for all the replies guys!

Ice: Thanks for the reccommendation, and good luck to you too!

Chris: Yeah I understand that, most coin magic I've seen (even ponta the smith) is just vanishes and reapperances. When done enough times, the audiences catches on. However, I see your point that you need patter, just like any other effect. I guess it never really dawned on me since I've seen only very few coin effects with atual patter, not narration.

William: I see what you mean with effects I like first, but I'll have to respectfully disagree slightly. Like with cards, you want to get down some really basic sleights that enable you to do a plethora of effects. Sure if I wan to learn more specific effects that require certain sleights, I'll learn those sleights that that effect teaches. If I went through all the card stuff I own, and picked out only effects I liked and wanted to perform, I would probably have missed out on some basic sleights that those effects might not have required. I explained that the best I can through text, hope it made sense haha.

Butterfield: 1. I get the vibe I should still get Bobo's haha, point taken.

2. As for coins across, how do they differ? In method or presentation? I know the basic premise is coins travel from one hand to the other, but how diverse can you really get with that? Not bashing, just an ingorant question.
"Where is the coin principle" is bascially the foundational vanishes and reappearnces. I know I stated that awkwardly in the beginning. "Where is the coin" is/was my take on coin magic, since most people figure that the coin is just in the other hand (but not with spongeballs...hmmmmm....) Hope that clears things up.

3. I get the advice on gaffs, again, they seem to be similar to cards. Where the aid you in the work, but don't do it for you, guess I overthought the new world of coins haha.

4.Fair enough, again, probably overthought it. If I do one trick with rubberbands, people don't beg for more rubberband stuff, they go with what I give them.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions, I'll definitely look into those! Anyone have any experience with In The Beginning There Were Coins by Jay Noblezada? Or his DVD on the Muscle Pass? I have Sponge by him, and it was decent, but I didn't feel totally full from it, you know?

Jacob

 

[Chris W]

You are getting some good advice here. Good luck in your learning! I know what you mean about Ponta. I don't own his DVD but I have seen his routines. He is insanely good. But I think it could be so much better with patter, but that's just me. An example is my 3 Fly. I call it Gazelle 3 Fly. Its not a new variation or anything but I patter about how I have 3 gazelles who are getting to the watering hole (I usually start by asking the audience what first comes to mind when you think of the African Plain. They usually think of something similar to lions, gazelles, etc). While it might sound stupid and while it might not work for you, it at least gives a reason (certainly not the best reason, but one, nonetheless) for why the coins (or gazelles) travel.

I hope I made sense. And again, this may not work for you, but for me it does. Hopefully you can think of something that will work for you. Just have fun with it!

 

[Icecool]

You are getting some good advice here. Good luck in your learning! I know what you mean about Ponta. I don't own his DVD but I have seen his routines. He is insanely good. But I think it could be so much better with patter, but that's just me. An example is my 3 Fly. I call it Gazelle 3 Fly. Its not a new variation or anything but I patter about how I have 3 gazelles who are getting to the watering hole (I usually start by asking the audience what first comes to mind when you think of the African Plain. They usually think of something similar to lions, gazelles, etc). While it might sound stupid and while it might not work for you, it at least gives a reason (certainly not the best reason, but one, nonetheless) for why the coins (or gazelles) travel.

I hope I made sense. And again, this may not work for you, but for me it does. Hopefully you can think of something that will work for you. Just have fun with it!

Is that Daryl`s 3 Fly? pardon the offtopic question.

 

[Chris W]

The one I do is usually Eric Jones's Simple 3 Fly nowadays.

 

[Jacob L]

You are getting some good advice here. Good luck in your learning! I know what you mean about Ponta. I don't own his DVD but I have seen his routines. He is insanely good. But I think it could be so much better with patter, but that's just me. An example is my 3 Fly. I call it Gazelle 3 Fly. Its not a new variation or anything but I patter about how I have 3 gazelles who are getting to the watering hole (I usually start by asking the audience what first comes to mind when you think of the African Plain. They usually think of something similar to lions, gazelles, etc). While it might sound stupid and while it might not work for you, it at least gives a reason (certainly not the best reason, but one, nonetheless) for why the coins (or gazelles) travel.

I hope I made sense. And again, this may not work for you, but for me it does. Hopefully you can think of something that will work for you. Just have fun with it!

Thank you! I really appreciate all the feedback. It might be different on the DVD, but from the trailer and stuff, it just seems like "flurries" as William said. I like the gazelle theme, it adds some depth and justification to the effect, rather than "here are three coins, watch as they travel." It should be the same with card effects, don't simply narrate. The biggest thing though is to make sure you believe what you are saying, otherwise they won't either.

Jacob

 

[Chris W]

Completely agree that there should be reasons in all magic, such as coin and card magic. Which is why I don't like some card effects because it has music while doing the effect or just narrating, as you mentioned. And I love what you are saying about believing in what you are saying. couldn't agree more. That's why I love what William said above "Do effect that you like to do" The audience will see you are having fun, which will in turn will make the audience have fun.

 

[Jacob L]

Well that's just youtube performers. The more you perform for real people, the more you understand how to script effects. Even if you don't make an actual script, you realize what things work and what don't. In an effect like Con Cam Coincidencia by Paul Wilson, there isn't a need for an elaborate story, unless you really truely want to make one up to fit the effect. Just simply directing the audience in what to do, and elaborate on key points, like a free selection, the cards were mixed several times, ect, will do the job just fine. With all that, there is no naration in the effect, it's all explaining what's happening, if that makes sense. You gotta find that line of what needs to be "imaginized" and what can be left simple and still get the point blatently across.

 

[CalvinTan]

I have to recommend Metal by Eric Jones also. I am currently relearning some of my coin sleights and also training my less dominate hand so I could perfect the sleights in both.

Not only does he give very solid instructions, there are also a couple routines, such as a 3 fly in the DVD. Like card magic, I always made it a point to learn without the gimmick stuff first. Everyone has loose change on them, and it's real easy to perform coin magic if you are asked to do a magic trick (especially with their coins). After you master this, then I would play around with the gimmicks such as a flipper and a shell.

-Calvin

 

[Jacob L]

Awesome, it seems Bobo's and Metal are the way to go for me. Question, what's a flipper, and what does it do?
Also, should I start learning with 50 cent pieces? Or just begin with quarters? Are certian effects coin-specific? (Ignorant question alert) where can I get some 50 cent pieces? Just pick them up at the bank? Sorry for the pestering haha.

Jacob

 

[Chris W]

I just went to the bank for some Eisenhower Silver Dollars and Kennedy Half Dollars. Most have those. I personally prefer bigger coins as they are more visual and look a bit better in my hands, or at least that's what I think. But it's up to you. I think quarters are good to practice with, as people always have them.

 

[CalvinTan]

Awesome, it seems Bobo's and Metal are the way to go for me. Question, what's a flipper, and what does it do?
Also, should I start learning with 50 cent pieces? Or just begin with quarters? Are certian effects coin-specific? (Ignorant question alert) where can I get some 50 cent pieces? Just pick them up at the bank? Sorry for the pestering haha.

Jacob

It really is up to you and what you're comfortable with. I personally started out with Quarters. I have small hands, and quarters fit me perfectly. I also wanted to be able to do coin magic with change people would be carrying around. Nobody has 50 cent pieces on them. I did a lot of close-up magic, so my personal preference was to use borrowed quarters. That being said, I have recently started going through my material as I stated up above with 50 cent pieces. This is because I want to incorporate coin magic in a stand-up situation.

I can't really say what a flipper coin is without exposing it. What is does is allow you to show 2 coins and vanish one.

I used to get 50 cent pieces at a bank, but not anymore. You might get lucky at some backs. If not, try coin shops.

 

[Icecool]

I got half dollars and one dollars coins, and i perfer halfs. Good luck mate!!

 

[Jacob L]

Gotcha, I have bigger hands, so I'll just play around with different sizes. 50 cent pieces seem like they would work better in a more stand up/parlor show, as Calvin said. I'll look around and find some things, thanks guys!

Jacob

 

[rich23]

The two types of coins i use are morgan dollars and walking liberty dollars (not halves)
they are larger then regular haves and make alot of coin work easier also if you are doing stand
up/parlor they are more visual the only down fall is you will have to pay a bit more for them because
silver is on the rise

 

[Jacob L]

The two types of coins i use are morgan dollars and walking liberty dollars (not halves)
they are larger then regular haves and make alot of coin work easier also if you are doing stand
up/parlor they are more visual the only down fall is you will have to pay a bit more for them because
silver is on the rise

Awesome thanks, I still think it's good to practice will all sorts of sizes though, that way you'll be prepared for anything. Like having a few effects you can do if someone hands you a ratty old deck that's all sticky (Geoff Williams' Devestation, anyone?)

Jacob