Weak minded people. What to do?

[NlightN]

What do you do when you make someone think of a card or pick a card and have them memorize it. Only to have them be unsure once you ask them if an indifferent card is their card?
You do a DL to show an indifferent card and ask "this isn't your card right?" or something along those lines. They start getting really unsure if it is or isn't and a lot of the time they will just say yes. Now I know these people aren't just trying to mess me up. They are geniunely this weak minded. By that I mean whatever someone else says, it will influence their memory and opinions. So if I say "this is your card", they will just bend over and say yes.
What way to avoid this? I don't want to just say "I know this isn't your card". How can I word it when I show an indifferent card so they don't start doubting themselves?

 

[Jay Adra]

If people aren't remembering their card shortly after "memorising" it, it is probably an indication that they aren't very invested in what you're doing, or they don't place much importance on the memorisation of the card (probably due to it usually being used to merely identify it later once you find it). Sometimes the person is involved and engaged, but get so caught up in what's going on and all the new information they're processing that they forget to remember the card.

Both of these issues can be fixed with a pretty simple solution. I would recommend saying something like, "I want you to really burn the image of your card into your mind, so you can clearly see the number and the suit". This gets them to go through a visualisation process with their card prominently in their mind and they will be more likely to remember it later.

Another easy way to possibly solve this issue is to get them to show everyone else participating the card so only one of them needs to remember it. This is also a good general rule to help engage the group, rather than just the chosen participant.

 

[j.p]

I was performing Biddle Trick to 2 people. I had forced the Ace of Diamonds on them- I like to force a card in the Biddle Trick because then you know for definite what card to do 'the move' on. So I went through the 5 cards and asked if their card was in there. One of them said yes and the other said no. The one who said no claimed the card was the Ace of Hearts. Then the one who said yes said to the other person 'Wasn't it the Ace of Diamonds?' Then she said No, the Ace of Hearts. The man who thought the card was the AoD (which it was) then went along and thought the card was the AoH thanks to the woman who said it was.
I was really annoyed and it wrecked the whole trick. I would try and gather a bit of an audience- at least 3 people and show them all the card, like DecisiveAmbivalence said.

 

[tokyoUW]

That's when you palm the ace of hearts out and produce it.

Learn those outs =)

 

[Toby]

I just tell them straight away: "just take one card out, MAKE SURE TO REMEMBER THE CARD, and show the card to everybody else". I emphasize to them to remember the card. It works like a charm.

 

[RickEverhart]

Always, always, show the card to more than one person in the group, or even a nearby spectator that isn't in "their" group. Reason being...the person who is having the effect done to them may not be weak minded, but because they are in the "spotlight"...there many be a bit of nervousness which makes them forget their card. Or...they may try to pull one over on you and say anything to mess you up. This also goes for groups of guys who "all" may lie and say you found the wrong card. Don't think this will ever happen? You better believe it does, so from now on I show someone else standing by that isn't part of their group as well.

 

[Mat La Vore]

What do you do when you make someone think of a card or pick a card and have them memorize it. Only to have them be unsure once you ask them if an indifferent card is their card?
You do a DL to show an indifferent card and ask "this isn't your card right?" or something along those lines. They start getting really unsure if it is or isn't and a lot of the time they will just say yes. Now I know these people aren't just trying to mess me up. They are geniunely this weak minded. By that I mean whatever someone else says, it will influence their memory and opinions. So if I say "this is your card", they will just bend over and say yes.
What way to avoid this? I don't want to just say "I know this isn't your card". How can I word it when I show an indifferent card so they don't start doubting themselves?

It isn't that your spectators are weak-minded, it's that you aren't doing your job right. Sorry to be abrasive, but your suggestion that your spectators are weak-minded is a gross deflection of your failure as the performer in the situation. It's your responsibility to put emphasis on the importance of them remembering their card, as well as engaging them enough so they even care to remember it. I suggest you start, though, by changing your outlook on your spectators.

 

[b_08]

Yep...what Mat said.

 

[NlightN]

Yeah if it's groups I make sure everyone sees it or else it won't be a trick at all. But if it's a 1 on 1 thing and the person doesn't have much confidence or whatever. You can't really know they will be like that so you can't avoid tricks that require them to do something that requires more than just holding out a hand. You discover their lack of confidence in the middle of the trick. And when they see a card that could possibly be theirs even though it isn't. Their reaction is that they might have messed up by not remembering the card correctly. So if they remember an ace and I show them a queen and say that it's an indifferent card and ask for confirmation that it isn't their card. They go "uuh maybe it is, not quite sure". In a way they don't want to mess up the trick.
Someone must have come across people like this or have I just had a really unlucky string of incidents?
A guy at work is like this when I show him a trick. He is a complete push over and you can have him crawl through the mud for no good reason if you wanted to. It wasn't until I showed him a trick that the trouble I had before was related to the confidence of the person.

 

[Chr!s]

It isn't that your spectators are weak-minded, it's that you aren't doing your job right. Sorry to be abrasive, but your suggestion that your spectators are weak-minded is a gross deflection of your failure as the performer in the situation. It's your responsibility to put emphasis on the importance of them remembering their card, as well as engaging them enough so they even care to remember it. I suggest you start, though, by changing your outlook on your spectators.

Quoted for truth.

I hope the way you talk about your spectators isn't an indication of your general attitude towards people, because that may be your main problem.

 

[AndyW]

"Show your card to everybody and make sure you memorize it so this whole thing isn't a waste of time."
They look at the card.
"Once you've memorized the card, place it back here."

 

[Justin.Morris]

I can't say I totally agree with you Mat. Sometimes, and in some atmospheres, there is lots going on. Sometimes new people arrive, or an MC starts talking etc. and it simply distracts people. He was using weak minded for lack of a better way to articulate, however the reality is that some people just forget. (though I do get what you mean about accepting the responsibility)

Rick nailed it on the head. Show as many people as you can. Now if you are performing for two, that is more difficult, and then you want to make sure they know it by emphasising (as already mentioned).

I was performing for a movie theatre, and did tossed out deck. I asked everyone to sit, one girl remained standing. I called out the remaining card, and she kept standing and I was at a loss. Just had to chalk it up to the "experiment" of reading minds, blah blah.

Since then I ALWAYS keep an invisible deck on my person as an excellent out. Ironically, since that time I've never had to use it as an out.

 

[NlightN]

Quoted for truth.

I hope the way you talk about your spectators isn't an indication of your general attitude towards people, because that may be your main problem.

I'm gonna say that "weak minded" was bad choice of words. At the time I didn't remember the word confidence and didn't bother to look it up in a norwegian/english dictionary.
To make it clear:
A person has low confidence. I show this person a sandwich trick. The person has to remember the card and I have the 2 kings find it. They recognise their card straight away and a reaction occurs.
The same person has to remember a card but this time I show an indifferent card to set up a transposition. I say we're gonna use an indifferent card. I shuffle, a cut and turn over a card and i say something like "hopefully this isn't your card". Same person who could spot his chosen card earlier in a sandwich suddenly has trouble remembering his card. Maybe he thinks he just remembered it wrong? Maybe he doesn't want to mess up the trick? I only assume it's related to the confidence of the spectator as a colleague has very low confidence and is easily manipulated because of it(he's everyones busboy). So when I do a trick for him(he asks me, I don't force him) I encounter this "uhm I'm not sure".

Also my writing style comes off as aggressive and angry. I could write an essay about rainbows and unicorns and it would still sound aggressive and angry. I'm not blaming the spectaror for my failure. I'm asking how I should word things to avoid this problem I have. Not a work around a problem they might have.
I feel like saying things like "if you're not sure we can find out in a minute" etc. just ruins the trick a bit. They do recognise their card in the end of the trick, but there's this bump just messing with the flow.

I don't do magic to ego trip, I do it for the spectators experience and even though it's rare I encounter this unsure "uhm..". It's still common enough to make me think he/she didn't get the full experience and it's clearly my wording of things in combination with whatever kind of person they are.

 

[Josh Burch]

I live in an area where people don't play cards often so I have to cope with this on a daily basis. It's hard to remember something you've never seen before.

If I can see the card in the effect (if it doesn't require me to divine their card) I will repeat the card A LOT. I'll use silly names sometimes too like the three of clovers, puppy feet or the ace of shovels. That fits my personality but it may not work for everyone.

If I need to divine the card or I can't know the identity (like in the biddle trick) I say something along the lines of "Remember your card, both the number and the shape." If they are unsure I explain "The upside down hearts are called spades and the 3 leaf clovers are called clubs"

If they are totally lost it's best to do something visual, a color change or deck vanish usually work.

 

[Mat La Vore]

I can't say I totally agree with you Mat. Sometimes, and in some atmospheres, there is lots going on. Sometimes new people arrive, or an MC starts talking etc. and it simply distracts people. He was using weak minded for lack of a better way to articulate, however the reality is that some people just forget. (though I do get what you mean about accepting the responsibility)

Then perhaps you shouldn't be doing card magic in these environments then? Or at least not doing "pick a card" type effects. I still say it's the performer's responsibility. A DJ talking or people walking in should not distract someone from seeing something miraculous right before their eyes. If it does then you need to ask yourself how you could have engaged them more so that they couldn't look away.

It's like a musician choosing what song to play for the crowd/venue/environment. If people don't get into the musician's great song, it isn't their fault. The musician failed to choose the right song, a good enough song, and/or failed to engage them with his/her performance. Same with magic. Know what to perform, when to perform it, and how to perform it. Don't assume people are going to care to watch a stranger do card tricks more than they are talking to each other about themselves.

Take responsibility for everything. Excuses just breed mediocrity.

 

[Randy]

You need to learn to speak up and speak clearly and directly, also while maintaining eye contact as well. This isn't just something with magic either, it also deals with life in general.

The thing with people not remembering their card is pretty much on you, which is an easy fix. Just tell them to clearly remember their card and show it around to everybody there. Then go about your normal procedure. The other thing to remember is to simply tell them to name their card in a loud, clear voice. Otherwise most people will either mumble it or not say it clearly enough for everybody else around to hear it.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Then perhaps you shouldn't be doing card magic in these environments then? Or at least not doing "pick a card" type effects. I still say it's the performer's responsibility. A DJ talking or people walking in should not distract someone from seeing something miraculous right before their eyes. If it does then you need to ask yourself how you could have engaged them more so that they couldn't look away.

It's like a musician choosing what song to play for the crowd/venue/environment. If people don't get into the musician's great song, it isn't their fault. The musician failed to choose the right song, a good enough song, and/or failed to engage them with his/her performance. Same with magic. Know what to perform, when to perform it, and how to perform it. Don't assume people are going to care to watch a stranger do card tricks more than they are talking to each other about themselves.

Take responsibility for everything. Excuses just breed mediocrity.

As I mentioned I get what you are saying about taking responsibility for what you can control. However I work where clients are paying me to be and I need to adapt to the environment. And example would be weddings. When glasses start clinking in the middle of the tricks, you have to stop and wait. It just doesn't work to demand the attention over that. So the trick resumes and you remind people to remember the card, and hope they do. You do your best. Excuse? Perhaps. Reality of a working magician? You bet.

 

[Haunter]

I think you've got some strong answers to the underlying problem already. I'd add having them sign the card when practical is a nice insurance policy and does double duty in that it also can get them more emotionally involved in the effect.