Magic with a secret stooge

Dec 29, 2011
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17
Does anyone know of a source where I can learn magic that involves the use of a stooge. Something like secret communication techniques and such for some small crowd work. I once read something about someone who had a system where an accomplice would ask questions about objects around the room, and the object that he mentioned after mentioning a black object would be the one thought of by a different spectator. Things of that nature.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
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Northampton, MA - USA
What are you trying to create?

There's numerous effects done with stooges but it depends on how you want to use them and if it's just for the sake of some fun at a party or something you will do as part of an on-going show.

I really can't name specific routines in that you will know the method has something to do with a stooge. I will point out that my book EASY READING has part of a code act I used to work and all you need is someone else that understands how the ER system works. I've done this over the phone dozens of times but I have a far more "in-depth" version in which an actual partner does more than the ER based work.

There are several routines noted in Corinda involving silent codes & cues but understand, it takes time to really learn any code type system and such efforts frequently lead to divorce, loss of friendship and more. . . it's just not easy and gets frustrating for both parties in that you are literally learning a new language and possibly not in the same manner or as fast as the other.

Another way of using such a stooge is by allowing them to do the dirty work such as how Rick Maue explains things in The Book of Haunted Magick in regards to exposure of the Swami device. Blackstone Sr. used to have a magician from outside the area he was working in, join him on stage during his presentation of the Super X styled levitation; this secret stooge hid the gimmick so as to allow Mr. B to move freely and thus, create a miracle that blew other magicians away.

Of course, you could ask Criss Angel for pointers, it seems he rarely works without stooges and loads of creative camera work.
 
Dec 29, 2011
703
17
What are you trying to create?

There's numerous effects done with stooges but it depends on how you want to use them and if it's just for the sake of some fun at a party or something you will do as part of an on-going show.

Really just some fun at a party. Its not like I want to learn the code in 13 steps to mentalism. I'm just looking a relatively simple code I can teach to a friend.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,966
1,101
Utah
Put 5 objects on a table and leave the room. While you're out have somebody touch an object. Work out a single signal with a friend. When you get back touch all the objects, smell them and look at them closely, receive the signal, and reveal which was touched.

You can work it out from there. We used to do this for hours at parties in high school. Your stooge just needs to act blown away just like everyone else and they are none the wiser.

If you are looking for a serious investment for a second sight routine then you might check out Dan Harlan's Speak Easy. I guess it's a pretty easy to remember 2 person code and has got good reviews from everyone I've heard from.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
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Northampton, MA - USA
Ok. . . Corinda has several different kinds of codes including something similar to what goatears suggested. . . the version in the book used an ashtray as the visual cue method. The easiest system I can suggest is the predetermined list or sequence list that is also noted in the code act section of Corinda (some folks call it Head to Toe because your receiver names items based on the location; they know that you will start with things worn on the head such as glasses or earrings and you will move down the body with each successive item i.e. necklace, brooch or man's coat swatch/hank, sports coat (man)/Wrap (lady), Belt, sock, shoes, etc. and then it can repeat or be staggered). This is the simplest and one of the more mind-boggling variations to the Telepathy type act because everyone is looking for the verbal code or radio transmitters that Hollywood has exposed so many times. Look this piece up in Corinda and just modernize it.

Hilford's Cellular Mitosis is an excellent bit for the 21st century

"Dual Reality" IS NOT what a lot of folks have turned it into, which is "instant stooging" -- a course of action in which you boldly tell the participant to just go along with you or what to say. That's a cheap magician's gag NOT Mentalism . . . at least not in my book. It may work for you in your idea of party fun and again, you'll see examples of this in Corinda and Annemann. . . everything from writing a word on your thumb or watch crystal and getting the patron to see it and use that word in the gag to having a deck of cards with one single card with a large corner pip while the rest are normal sized . . . a means by which to force a card in a deck but make it look like a free choice (though the participant is obviously "in" on the gag).

True Dual Reality happens when your helper experiences an effect that differs from what the rest of the audience experiences; they aren't "in on it" but their reason for amazement when it comes to the effect, is based on a perspective not known to the audience; they remain clueless when it comes to the mechanism behind what's done for creating said realities.

Hope this clears things up for you.
 
Most Coding effects are cheap magician gags if you put it like that Craig. I think the OP asked about coding and secret communication. If you are gonna have 1 person coding you the entire way out, then you might as well use instant stooging.They are typically the same thing. You can do a 45 minute piece with instant stooging using 1 or 2 people.

and there are routines, that uses dual reality that allows the performer to trick the instange stooge and the audience.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Most Coding effects are cheap magician gags if you put it like that Craig. I think the OP asked about coding and secret communication. If you are gonna have 1 person coding you the entire way out, then you might as well use instant stooging.They are typically the same thing. You can do a 45 minute piece with instant stooging using 1 or 2 people.

and there are routines, that uses dual reality that allows the performer to trick the instange stooge and the audience.

I'd love to know what books you've been reading, Jr.

I've been on stage or working behind the scenes with shows since 1970 and since the early 80s, dabbling in Mentalism & Bizarre Entertainment. I more than know the difference and they are not where close to being one in the same. Learning code takes months if not years to master, it's a dangerous thing to get into because of how stressful it can be -- it's destroyed more than a few relationships in this biz.

Before you go coaching people on Mentalism KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Your post proves that you don't.
 
Dec 29, 2011
703
17
Ok. . . Corinda has several different kinds of codes including something similar to what goatears suggested. . . the version in the book used an ashtray as the visual cue method.

All I remember seeing in there is a very complex system of assigning words to numbers, and numbers to months, colours, descriptive words and so on. I guess its probably worth looking again then.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
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Northampton, MA - USA
Look on page 265 "All in Order" . . . with very simple changes to the list you can still use the concept and learn it in under an hour.
Page 261-262 show a visual cue system such as I was talking about with the ashtray; pages 252-257 cover a very neat method for using flashing lights to cue your partner and on top of that you have a myriad of references to Thumpers and two-way radio techniques.

I've always amazed when it comes to this and numerous other books on magic and what people who will swear they've "studied" them, never see or remember. The reason is, they don't study!

I'm not picking on you Wyatt, you're just the one that's played catalyst to this mini-lecture. . . (stop moaning!)

Corinda, like a lot of material that came out between 1920 to about 1975, was based on "Correspondence Study" or what one might associate with Home Schooling in today's world. Thing is, a kid would have to save their penny's to buy just one lesson at a time and because of this, a single lesson would last them for months; not just studying the material over and over again, but the time and cash invested when it came to getting certain "tools" listed in each lesson such as nail writers or impression boards, etc. Too, people didn't have all the distractions today's culture is filled with, nor the "instant gratification" sense of expectation. That means they would be quite content sitting down and reading -- studying & memorizing -- material until they really did get it down pat (at least 2/3rds of it).

Material like Corinda, Tarbell, etc. would take the newcomer two - five years to complete due to the atmosphere in which life was lived in those days vs. what we have now. Young people were far more disciplined when it came to the art of "thought" as well as self-application . . . attitudes were very different and far more "practical" or "matter of fact" than we find now days. But, human beings love the idea of "moving forward" rarely looking back to see what they are giving up in the name of progress. When it comes to the world of Magic, we're looking at an art form that is very dependent on "the little things" -- details and paying attention to even the most subtle tid bit of information offered to us in life; not just the books or DVDs we study but in life itself and how we PARTICIPATE with others and our environment.

Ok. .. . enough of that. I just hope I've helped folks consider . . . ask themselves about what else they may have missed when they first rushed through a book or tape, etc.?

Always read a book 3 times and at least once out loud; then you'll know what's actually there.
 
craig, in theory they are basically the same thing. its called secret help. if your integrity is good enough to have someone tell you an answer. why dog the people who ask a few other to go along with an effect. either way, you are not doing the deception by yourself. you are using teamwork. lets not get all technical about this. secret help is secret help. i know plenty of mentalists and have read quite a few books where dual reality can be A) someone going along with the trick or B) the deception is smooth enough to fool the instant stoog and the audience. no matter how you chop it its secret help. to hold up coding and down instant stooging doesn't make sense.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
Right. And a Wendy's bacon cheese burger is the same thing as a bacon wrapped filet mignon prepared by a chef. You know, because they both have beef and bacon.

Stooges, instant or otherwise, are not the same thing as using a code system, unless you are teaching that system to the partner on the fly. And neither are dual-reality. You are just wrong, Cedric.
 
Dec 29, 2011
703
17
Look on page 265 "All in Order" . . . with very simple changes to the list you can still use the concept and learn it in under an hour.
Page 261-262 show a visual cue system such as I was talking about with the ashtray; pages 252-257 cover a very neat method for using flashing lights to cue your partner and on top of that you have a myriad of references to Thumpers and two-way radio techniques.

I've always amazed when it comes to this and numerous other books on magic and what people who will swear they've "studied" them, never see or remember. The reason is, they don't study!

I'm not picking on you Wyatt, you're just the one that's played catalyst to this mini-lecture. . . (stop moaning!)

Corinda, like a lot of material that came out between 1920 to about 1975, was based on "Correspondence Study" or what one might associate with Home Schooling in today's world. Thing is, a kid would have to save their penny's to buy just one lesson at a time and because of this, a single lesson would last them for months; not just studying the material over and over again, but the time and cash invested when it came to getting certain "tools" listed in each lesson such as nail writers or impression boards, etc. Too, people didn't have all the distractions today's culture is filled with, nor the "instant gratification" sense of expectation. That means they would be quite content sitting down and reading -- studying & memorizing -- material until they really did get it down pat (at least 2/3rds of it).

Material like Corinda, Tarbell, etc. would take the newcomer two - five years to complete due to the atmosphere in which life was lived in those days vs. what we have now. Young people were far more disciplined when it came to the art of "thought" as well as self-application . . . attitudes were very different and far more "practical" or "matter of fact" than we find now days. But, human beings love the idea of "moving forward" rarely looking back to see what they are giving up in the name of progress. When it comes to the world of Magic, we're looking at an art form that is very dependent on "the little things" -- details and paying attention to even the most subtle tid bit of information offered to us in life; not just the books or DVDs we study but in life itself and how we PARTICIPATE with others and our environment.

Ok. .. . enough of that. I just hope I've helped folks consider . . . ask themselves about what else they may have missed when they first rushed through a book or tape, etc.?

Always read a book 3 times and at least once out loud; then you'll know what's actually there.

I wasn't moaning, and I never claimed to have studied Corinda, just glanced through the verbal code section. But I entirely agree with you about the study and practise of magic. That is partly what this thread is about, I've evaluated where I want my magic to go in the future, style and technique wise, and am just gathering sources, mainly books, that I can purchase when I have the money.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,238
3
Does anyone know of a source where I can learn magic that involves the use of a stooge. Something like secret communication techniques and such for some small crowd work. I once read something about someone who had a system where an accomplice would ask questions about objects around the room, and the object that he mentioned after mentioning a black object would be the one thought of by a different spectator. Things of that nature.

From your description, you're interested in using an accomplice, not a stooge.

As for a coding system, the brilliant Dan Harlan just released an excellent DVD on his coding system, Speakeasy.

Hope that helps. :)

[video=youtube;H78bcAvSuFk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H78bcAvSuFk[/video]
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
craig, in theory they are basically the same thing. its called secret help. if your integrity is good enough to have someone tell you an answer. why dog the people who ask a few other to go along with an effect. either way, you are not doing the deception by yourself. you are using teamwork. lets not get all technical about this. secret help is secret help. i know plenty of mentalists and have read quite a few books where dual reality can be A) someone going along with the trick or B) the deception is smooth enough to fool the instant stoog and the audience. no matter how you chop it its secret help. to hold up coding and down instant stooging doesn't make sense.

It makes a lot of sense, actually.

Instant Stooging is a form of exposure in my book. Using codes on the other hand, is a part of a partnership; your partner isn't going to expose the secret behind what you do because it's a matter of personal interest; this cannot be said about instant stooge scenarios.

The Instant Stooge has its place IN MAGIC SHOWS but not within authentic Mentalism a.k.a. "Old School" Mentalism that's free of the Dunninger mold and worked closer to the original root of the craft vs. the more commercial profile that evolved out of skepticism and of course, magicians inventing tricks so they could get in on current trends for the sake of gigs (and this happened back in the 19th century, not just in the past 15 or so years).

I can assure you that Jeff Evanson would give you a similar contrast, given that a two-way code system is what he and his wife depend on for their livelihood and it allows them to generate top dollar when it comes to gigs. Code work requires years of constant work to cultivate and yes, it is "team work" as that term literally defines the idea. Asking someone to just go along things isn't the same and as I've said, it tends to be more akin to exposure -- a cheap gag -- comparatively.


Wyatt -- If you're serious about developing a code-based act you will need a seriously dedicated partner, there is no way to escape that. Not only is this important when it comes to the long hours of developing the skill and communication rapport, it is necessary for the sake of protecting your act and the secret behind it -- code work involves a lot more than words and the majority of the better known acts that do this kind of work, incorporate a combination of techniques that are audible as well as visual or kinetic . . . such as using a "thumper" device or even a two way radio type system via which you can augment the act in real time (several noted stage acts -- Illusionists -- use this kind of set-up just so they & the crew can secretly communicate when there's a problem or when they are in position, etc. not as part of their program).

If this is the direction you hope to work towards then I'd suggest that you grab up as many different code systems as you can find and afford so you can find the one that is easiest for the two of you to work. I started with the Paul Hadley code system (How to Develop Mental Magic -- if you browse this site you'll find other code systems as well) and later added a visual code technique based on an actual Military system used in WWII by the underground (no longer on the market and very exclusive).

Until you get that working partner I'd suggest you keep things simple and find a couple of individuals that will work with you in a kind of rotating bases, using the List technique I mentioned earlier; it's something that's easy to learn and just as bewildering when worked right. To my mind, using this technique as your act template and then adding the word & sight code techniques delivers the cleanest version of this kind of work.
 
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Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
If this thread is still available for all to see (I couldn't find it, it's so buried) Here's something I thought the OP and others might benefit from. It comes from a UK Forum I frequent.

Free 2 Person Code System
by phillipnorthfield » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:45 pm

For anyone interested, and because there's very few occasions when I'd be able to use it myself, I am writing down my 2 person code method, that as far as I know is original. Although if anyone knows otherwise, please let me know, I'd be very interested.

This system allows you to signal in one gesture one of 60 different items. (Yes 60!) That means you can send an entire playing card in one go.

It looks relatively natural, and is fairly easy to learn once you understand the concept behind it.

Ready? It uses fingers..... OK, I'll expand. The number system we use in our day to day lives is called base 10. However, before the Romans invented this system with the 10 basic numerals, the Babylonians used something called base 60.(Apologies for the history lesson, but it's all relevant) For those interested, that's why there are 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour.

Now imagine you wanted to send the number 7 to someone and you could only use your fingers. You'd put up 7 fingers, obviously. What if it was 14? A ten and a four. But that's two 'moves' . Now imagine 24, 34, 44, and even 54. That's up to 6 moves to send just 1 number.

Fortunately, that's where base 60 comes in. Imagine that each phalanges (section of your finger) of your left hand,represents 5, and putting your thumb on that part signals whatever total is there i.e : Imagine my thumb is at the base of my index finger, this would represent 5, the one above it, 10, above that 15, the first phalange on the next finger 20, and so on. All the way until we reach the final phalange, the tip of the little finger which represents 60. The number of outstretched fingers (thumb doesn't count) on your right hand is added to this to provide any of the numbers from 1 to 64.

By simple pretending to scratch and rub your finger with your thumb, the number can be coded in a matter of seconds. This can then correspond to anything you require, which I'll leave to your imagination.

Apologies if it is a little complicated to follow my instructions, the method really isn't too hard, and I hope someone gets some use or ideas from it.

Phil
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic44579.php
 
Dec 29, 2011
703
17
If this thread is still available for all to see (I couldn't find it, it's so buried) Here's something I thought the OP and others might benefit from. It comes from a UK Forum I frequent.

I'm pretty sure its been on the first page since I started the thread. Anyway, I quite like that system, I might look into it.
 
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