Alchemy vs. Advocate

Dec 21, 2012
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I've been searching around for a hard hitting effect that doesn't require a complicated gimmick. I've been interested in Alchemy by Ben Seidman for a while and love the price and the fact that it is impromptu. But when the advocate by Daniel Madison came out, it seemed like an interesting buy for someone who mainly performs with cards. If the effect is worth it, I would be willing to pay the extra fifteen dollars. Does anyone have either of these effects and what is your input on them?:confused:
 
Apr 27, 2012
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I can't help you much with Advocate, but I did purchase Alchemy a few months back, however being someone who only really uses cards, I have never really used Alchemy. Due to the difficulty (and knack) that the trick requires I could never quite get the move to look clean. If you haven't done a lot of coin tricks before (and/or you don't tend to perform coin tricks very often), I would personally recommend that you opt for Advocate. Alchemy's an amazing coin trick, but having little experience with coin magic, is rather difficult to pull off. Hope this helps!
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
The Advocate is a gimmick, though I'm not sure whether it qualifies as complicated. Both of them will require a fair amount of practice to get good at.

Otherwise they cannot be compared at all.

Which fits what you want to do?
 
Jul 25, 2012
178
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Detroit, MI
Actually the advocate IS NOT a gimmick, it is a trick he preformed on the EMC 2012, he explained it there, it may not be a gimmick but it is EXTREMELY difficult and requires a ton of good mis-direction, Alchemy is also a good trick but it is very knacky and will take forever to get down, but its not a year round effect.
 
Dec 21, 2012
6
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To give you a better idea of what i'm looking for, I am performing generally with people right in front of me, occasionally surrounded, which is why I'm doubting alchemy. Is the advocate angley?
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
I know exactly what the Advocate is. I made one two days ago. I'm at work now, otherwise it would be in my pocket right now. I call that a gimmick, because you can't show it to the audience and it allows you to do something you can't really do otherwise.

Alchemy cannot be done surrounded. I believe it would not be hard to use the Advocate surrounded.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
Depends. If you're going to put the work into figuring out how to use it well, then yes, totally worth it and possibly more. I honestly think the routine Madison did on EMC is a pretty low power way of using The Advocate. I'm sure he's got better stuff, though.

I've come up with a routine that I think is pretty good using it, and for that one, two phase routine, I would not have been upset to pay $25.
 
Jul 25, 2012
178
1
Detroit, MI
The Advocate is more of a set up then a gimmick but no i don't think it is worth 25$ it is worth 20$ though, but if you honestly have to choose between the two go with the advocate, it is difficult and you may not be able to preform it surrounded but it has a lesser chance to fail then Alchemy.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
That's just a difference in definition, then. I still can't think of any way it would be difficult to do surrounded, though. The only way I could see that being any issue is if people are physically pressing against you on all sides. I also don't think it's difficult, just a bit knacky. The only sleight involved is something any card worker should be able to do with ease.
 
Aug 26, 2010
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The Advocate is NOT a gimmick or just a "trick" It is a very powerful tool for any card worker. It is a bit difficult to work but with practice you can work it amazingly. Its not an expert move it well get a bit messy(in your pocket) but eith proper missdirection nobody well see a thing. I have been using it for a few years now and never leave home without it.
 
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