Magic Can be Art

Josh Burch

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
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1,101
Utah
Hey everyone,
There is always an ongoing conversation over weather magic is an art or not. For myself I think that magic can be an art, it is a way to express emotion. I like examples so I've included three very different effects all of which I believe to be art because of their ability to communicate emotion. What do you think? Are these art? Do you have any other thoughts or routines that you call art?

[video=youtube;2z7CjD04U0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z7CjD04U0I[/video]

[video=youtube;If6gUDsEbkA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6gUDsEbkA[/video]

[video=youtube;-nUamNmeQpI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nUamNmeQpI[/video]

These are examples of art in my opinion :)
 
J

JokerZingo

Elite Member
Oct 16, 2012
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freemagictutorials.com
I think everything you do in magic is an art because magic is that you creat something you creat a reaction in the spectator and you creat something from bassicly nothing other than a deck of cards, coins etc.

So I would definitely call magic an art than I mean everything in magic =)
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
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Magic can be art, but very few performers take it to that level. I really don't think that all magic is art, as most of it is just stunts and tricks. A reaction isn't art, anything can cause a reaction. I don't think it's art until it's expressing or evoking something more specific than 'a reaction'. You'll get a major reaction if you drop your pants and urinate on someone's shoes, but that's neither magic nor art.

I haven't seen the videos posted yet, as I'm on my phone and embedded videos don't show up, do I can't comment on them.
 
6

6ofdiamonds

Dec 12, 2011
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0
I think that magic is art, no matter who performs it. Not all people who do magic are artists, just as not all people who draw are artists.
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
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I have serious doubts that magic is, in itself, art. It's a craft, a skill. There are those who create art with it, but most don't. Just as not every bit of painting is art, neither is all magic. And I think that just thinking all magic is art could be part of why so much of magic is not art. If we just assume it's art, we stop striving to make it art.
 
Josh Burch

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,966
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Utah
I labelled this thread "Magic Can be Art" for a reason. I don't think it all is art but I definitely believe it can be. If you believe magic is an art I'd love to see examples. I do believe it can be an art and in these instances above are art but I'd like to see your idea of magic as art.
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
5,879
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Ok. Had a chance to watch the videos. My first question is this: What emotion are they communicating?

From my perspective the Copperfield video is the only one that has any emotion in it at all. The emotion I get from that is loneliness ... and some creepiness. The second video doesn't really express much of anything. It's cool and I like it, but what is it expressing? The last video is just a stunt, really. Again, a good one, but what emotion is it communicating? To me that one is just saying, "Look what I can do."

Yann Frisch's cups and balls tells a bit of a story, and it's interesting and unique. I think that one has some artistic merit. Teller's Shadows will probably always be an act I find to be artistic, though admittedly I'm not sure what I find artistic about it.

I guess what I'm looking for in an artistic act is some depth. It has to be more than, "Watch this!"
 
AndyW

AndyW

Aug 2, 2011
150
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California
I guess art depends in the person seeing it. For example, there are several famous paintings that have no emotion for me, but I still recognize them as art. All art in my opinion doesn't have to convey a deep emotion, there are several other important aspects in a piece of art.
 
AndyW

AndyW

Aug 2, 2011
150
0
California
Also, the kiss act for me does create an emotion and feeling of love. The bunson burner finale in my opinion is really beautiful. The shadows routine I can't quite describe the feeling/meaning, it is just beautiful and mystical, and performed in "awe" filled silence
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
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AndyW said:
Also, the kiss act for me does create an emotion and feeling of love. The bunson burner finale in my opinion is really beautiful. The shadows routine I can't quite describe the feeling/meaning, it is just beautiful and mystical, and performed in "awe" filled silence
Click to expand...

I didn't want to double post. The post above mine was posted as I was writing mine.

My own personal opinion is that Copperfield's routines don't do anything for me, usually. His routines seem like they should have meaning, but just fail to resonate with me at all. I guess, ultimately, I feel that it's still all about him, and that's just not what I'm into. Of course, I've not seen much of his work, so maybe I've just never seen an example that would work for me.

I think the Kiss act definitely expresses an emotion. Though I also think it drags on in the middle and turns into a trick instead of art, I think it has potential to be really powerful. I also think he probably expanded it to be a FISM act, which was its downfall for me.

Benson Burner. Eh. It's a fun routine, but what is it expressing? To me, it's just a mixed sponge balls/cups and balls routine. I don't see or feel anything profound from it.

I already mentioned Shadows. I love that routine. I went to Vegas just to see Teller perform that and the Red Ball trick. It resonates with me, though I honestly cannot say why. When I think about it objectively, it doesn't seem to express much to me. But it evokes a feeling of mystery and wonder for me. I guess when it really gets down to brass tacks, I can't feel like a performance is art unless it evokes something in me.
 
R

Randy

Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Art is a very subjective term and can vary from person to the other. Andy Warhol made a giant painting of a soup can into art.

Personally, I think we should stop trying to make our audiences see what we do as art, but more as magic. IE: it should appear that it took no effort or skill to make it happen.
 
Josh Burch

Josh Burch

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Aug 11, 2011
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Utah
Hey Christopher do you have any examples of stuff that evokes emotion in you? I think that much of what David Copperfield and Derren Brown do can be considered art. I am moved by what they do and they make me think. With Teller's effect Shadows I do feel like that is art as well. It captures my attention in a way that is hard to put to words. I'm not sure what it is saying per se but that's one aspect of art, to communicate what we cannot communicate otherwise.
 
W

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
5,879
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Derren Brown's done some stuff that I really like. To this day I think he's the most entertaining magician-type on stage. He usually has at least one thing in every stage show that's really dramatic and engaging, like his Q&A, the Svengali routine, etc. But without watching his stuff again (As I haven't in some time) I couldn't give you specific examples. He's just one performer that tends to invoke emotional reactions. I will also say that the stuff he does like Hero at 30,000 Feet and Apocalypse have changed people's lives.

Ricky Jay's version of the Exclusive Coterie is mystical and gives that feeling of being back in that time period. As well as his rendition of Everywhere and Nowhere.

I already mentioned Yann Frisch.

Norberto Jansenson's presentation for the EMC was beautiful. I don't know if that's a thing he normally does, but it was gorgeous.

Basically, I'm looking for stuff that doesn't leave me thinking, "Oh, that was cool. How did he do that?" I want to be thinking about what the trick meant or what it made me remember or feel. Watching someone do something that's impossible isn't going to do it for me - In this day of CGI and big budget movies, the impossible isn't so capturing, and besides, we're magicians. Watching someone who's just entertaining is, of course, entertaining, but it feels hollow to me. It's candy for the brain.
 
Josh Burch

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,966
1,101
Utah
ChristopherT said:
Derren Brown's done some stuff that I really like. To this day I think he's the most entertaining magician-type on stage. He usually has at least one thing in every stage show that's really dramatic and engaging, like his Q&A, the Svengali routine, etc. But without watching his stuff again (As I haven't in some time) I couldn't give you specific examples. He's just one performer that tends to invoke emotional reactions. I will also say that the stuff he does like Hero at 30,000 Feet and Apocalypse have changed people's lives.

Ricky Jay's version of the Exclusive Coterie is mystical and gives that feeling of being back in that time period. As well as his rendition of Everywhere and Nowhere.

I already mentioned Yann Frisch.

Norberto Jansenson's presentation for the EMC was beautiful. I don't know if that's a thing he normally does, but it was gorgeous.

Basically, I'm looking for stuff that doesn't leave me thinking, "Oh, that was cool. How did he do that?" I want to be thinking about what the trick meant or what it made me remember or feel. Watching someone do something that's impossible isn't going to do it for me - In this day of CGI and big budget movies, the impossible isn't so capturing, and besides, we're magicians. Watching someone who's just entertaining is, of course, entertaining, but it feels hollow to me. It's candy for the brain.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree :)
 
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