Information Overload

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
Hello again,

As many of you know, I've been releasing quite a bit of material on the Wire. I try to release at least two downloads a week if I can. However, there is such a problem as "Too much information". But, some people look at it differently. For example, someone running a blog would want to frequently post material to establish their own consistency as a writer. My question to you, where do you stand in that argument? Is posting a lot of material better or worse? I'm interested to hear what you guy's have to say about the subject.

-Patrick Varnavas
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Twice a week, huh? Is this stuff you're inventing specifically for the Wire, or is it existing material you'd already developed? This is an important question because context is everything here.
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
The moves that I'm releasing on the Wire have been with me for quite a while. The reason why this is all happening now, is because I finally figured out how to produce these downloads in a manner that I'm happy with. So these moves have been on hold; I've been spending time increasing my production quality while trying to figure out how I was going to release them. I settled upon a consistent two releases a week, and now here they are.
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
Assuming that I stay at this pace, I'd be able to keep it going for around a month and half with the material that I plan on actually selling. I don't want to give everything I've got to the community, there's no point in that. But it's pretty safe to assume that I could last the rest of the summer.
 

D@n

Oct 11, 2011
104
1
I think that would be better to stagger your downloads more, because I'm not sure people will buy/download two flourishes every week for the whole summer. You're putting stuff out faster than we can consume and learn it, and since the Wire puts emphasis on the new releases you risk burying some of your later material by releasing too much at once.
Dan
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
Yeah, that's why I'm considering taking a break or maybe slowing down the pace to something like twice a month. I'm really not sure, I just don't have that experience yet.
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
Well, releasing my material isn't an "end goal". Releasing my material sort of allows me to start fresh, a clean slate. Working on these tutorials dominates most of my time as a cardist. Once I feel like I've done enough for now, I'm most likely just going to restart the cycle. Take a break and develop some new material, maybe make a new performance video. Then when the time is right, start releasing again. There are no deadlines with this sort of thing, I'm just happy to be involved with the community in this way.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
If there is no ultimate goal, if this is not an attempt to build up an audience for eventual monetization or to establish a presence for the sake of a later endeavor, then you work at the pace you feel comfortable with.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
This entire goal seems like an incredibly stupid idea. You're going to end like Jay Sankey AFTER he fell into the trap of thinking everything he releases is a gold mind. The only difference is that Jay Sankey was a big name in magic.

What you should REALLY focus on is quality not quantity. Take a routine, work on it, hone it and essentially perform it thousands of times over the course of a year or so.. THEN release it. That way, you will at least have gained the trust of people who know that you have put your ideas and "neat tricks" to good use, and that they are workable.

Also for the whole idea of releasing things to start fresh. It's not going to cause you to have a good standing with people (specially the ones whom you seem to be marketing toward.) If you really want to put something out there. Go on Skype and try to show your new effects to some of the talented names in magic. See what they have to say about it. Otherwise, what you are planning to do is just going to ruin your reputation with people and will pretty much burn you out quickly.
 

venom546

Elite Member
Mar 11, 2013
121
5
lol that is funny that you bring it up because when I saw your new download Patrick, I was thinking "dang I am still practicing the last flourish". But yes I do think their is a such thing as over load. When this happens, I usually just skip stuff and then end up coming back to it later.
 

JokerZingo

Elite Member
Oct 16, 2012
94
0
Sweden
freemagictutorials.com
I agree with Randy but are we talking about flourishes or other sleights.

I think this plays a big role I think 2 flourishes aweek is too much realse maximum 2 a month and if it card sleights you should really work on them a lot I've been working on a trick now for 8 months and I'm not even close to finish so, in creating there is a lot of work.

Not to be rude or anything but I think your idea to just shovel all your flourishes/sleights out is a bad idea.
In my opinion if you just put all your tutorial and than starting to taking payment it feels like you just want the money.
An idea is to do a tutorial send it out a to a couple of a friends and "famous people" and get some tips what you can improve and what's good and what to keep.

But that's just my opinions. Thanks - Markus/JokerZingo
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
What you should REALLY focus on is quality not quantity. Take a routine, work on it, hone it and essentially perform it thousands of times over the course of a year or so.. THEN release it. That way, you will at least have gained the trust of people who know that you have put your ideas and "neat tricks" to good use, and that they are workable.

I believe he said this is material he's already been working on for some time now. Just, you know... reminding everyone. Generally a good idea to read the whole thread and ask a few questions before firing your mouth off.

In my opinion if you just put all your tutorial and than starting to taking payment it feels like you just want the money.

Apparently I'm not only the only one who read the whole thread, I'm also the only one who looked at his stuff on the Wire. All of the stuff he's posted is free, dude. This isn't about the money.

Sheesh, and people say I'm quick on the draw.
 
Jun 13, 2013
38
0
I think it's pretty much to take in but it's nice because we have where to choose from. I mean that if I am a guy who likes cuts I won't practice Cocoa and Splash.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Twice a week, huh? Is this stuff you're inventing specifically for the Wire, or is it existing material you'd already developed? This is an important question because context is everything here.

Steerpike has a point here. . . I'll take it further (of course). . . Why are you pooping out so much?

The key to being a great showman is leaving your audience wanting MORE. . . show me where you're doing that?

Yes, your fellows that are buying all this stuff are your audience and just like the School Campus slut that gave her tricks away for free or cheap, you'll ultimately find yourself loosing respect and facing frustration if you don't learn to hold back.

One contribution a month is "normal" per source you are working with. Back in that era in which one had to have a printer and production team to put out a "Magazine" all anyone could do was put out one new piece each month, max! Not due to a lack of creativity but because a.) that's all the distribution the zine knew; b.) people actually had a life back then that not only went way beyond the auspices of magic, but the need to be "in the loop" on things constantly. and c.) the old timers understood that "Less is More"

If you give people a tease here and there; just a new thing to play with and talk about a few times a year, you will get a much stronger reaction over time. When you're eager, greedy and being driven by ego you will burn yourself out and in the process, burn out your readers and fans. Learn to pace yourself!

Ok. . . I know that I seem to have my fingers in a dozen piles but that's just because I have the time to touch base with four or so major forums each day and I contribute to a couple of different publications including VANISH. Thing is, I've been around the block a few times and so it's kind of "normal", not so for someone new to it all. So take your time, let your concepts sink it, WAIT -- see which effects get the stronger response and then look at ways of improving on that one effect.

Some years ago this kid from the UK showed me some notes he had on a routine in which he accurately reads the mind of two gents that are standing on either side of him and told to sit down if he was correct. . . which they did. . . since then Luke Jermay has expanded on his TOUCHING ON HOY routine and presentation because of consumer interest and the realization that he had a major reputation building effect on the market; Michael Ammar did the same thing back in the 80s when it came to the Topit device and his uncanny skill working with it.

You're in that position right now; pause and allow things to simmer a bit so you can see what your next step should be. If you don't learn to do this you'll miss out on loads of things, including Life Itself. . .
 

AlfaMagic

Banned
Jul 15, 2013
16
1
I'd release it all together, most people do that kind of thing on AlfaMagic.

Get it done with, take the positive opportunity !
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I'd release it all together, most people do that kind of thing on AlfaMagic.

Get it done with, take the positive opportunity !

You do realize that this forum is not for you to shill your company, right? Just to remind everyone, don't click the link in this guy's sig. The page is immediately gated by a pop-up squeeze page with a YT video telling how you can make all o' da moneyz!!1! by putting your products online through their service. And you're not allowed to actually look at the page until you give them your email address.
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
It is difficult to explain exactly why I am releasing so much material at this time, probably because I don't know why. The vanity of the "publishing" experience is obviously intriguing to any amateur, but I would like to think that I'm ahead of that sort of thought process. Call it an ego problem, lack of experience, or me just plain over doing it. These are all possibilities, but I try to be self-aware and I'm determined to not make any careless errors that others have made before me.

The main manner by which I differ from the aforementioned "School Campus Slut" is that this isn't an "ask and you shall receive" situation. I'm usually quite firm about sticking to my plan, and I have said on multiple occasions that I don't plan on just giving everything away. In the same manner that a girl would lose respect for giving her self away, I would lose respect for promiscuously releasing my material.

As for the material itself, I'm quite confident in how much time I've spent with it. All of the material that I release is something that I have worked on for a while and most likely changed multiple times. I do spend quite a bit of time worrying about the quality of my moves; quality over quantity is certainly on my mind, but there is also still a rather large quantity.

As for the money issue, I don't think I could be any more balanced. I have released 3 free downloads, and 3 paid downloads. The next one will be a free download. I don't want to be the artist that demands ridiculous chunks of change for every idea I throw at the community. But at the same time, I don't want to be the artist who seems so desperate to put his name out there, that he releases all of his material for nothing in return. I want to be reasonable, not stupid.

I do pay a lot of attention to how the public reacts to the moves that I release, I am starting to notice the trends. The question now, is where to go from here. Thank you all for your input, I really do appreciate everything you've said so far.

-Patrick Varnavas
 

RachelK

Elite Member
Jul 8, 2013
6
2
I'm not really sure if I'm qualified to share an opinion on the matter, but I kind of felt like saying this, even if it sort of goes without saying.

I get what you're trying to do Patrick, and it makes sense to me. The way I see it, flourishers develop new material kind of in stages. When they've done all they want with moves, it seems to make sense to release them, so other people can toy around with the ideas. When those ideas are released there's a certain pressure on the flourisher to begin their next stage of developing new flourishes, ones they haven't released yet. And that's when the next performance video comes out.

Sorry for the rambling, but that's kind of how it works in my mind. You can see that with DnD when they release The System, then more ideas in the Trilogy and now they have some stand alone flourishes they've released such as Dropzone and Gyroscope. But yeah. hi.
 
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