Is Cardistry recognizable?

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Sep 1, 2007
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Uh what? A lot of people where are acting like what? Again, what are you talking? The discussion was what can we do to promote cardistry? No rainbows or unicorns here dude.

Every time I say to do something in this thread, it got labeled as negative. That I wasn't being optimistic. That if people just believe in themselves, good things will come to them. I'm using hyperbole and humor to make a point. I can't believe I had to explain that just now. I could not have been any more obvious about it than if I had Patton Oswalt read it aloud in silly voices.
 

Andrei

Elite Member
Sep 2, 2007
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No idea how you got that impression from this thread. You lumped a bunch of people together with the usual "you guys need to do X because your problem is Y" when the discussion needed ideas and positive encouragement.

Try applying your talents in a different way. Make less assumptions and instead of making everything so gloomy in an effort to get people to "rise up to the challenge" and "weed out the weak", try something positive. Might get a better response.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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when the discussion needed ideas and positive encouragement.

So none of the stuff I posted contained ideas? Didn't you just get done saying a few minutes ago that you liked the proposed business plan for aspiring pro flourishers? Did that not count for some reason?

Try applying your talents in a different way. Make less assumptions and instead of making everything so gloomy in an effort to get people to "rise up to the challenge" and "weed out the weak", try something positive. Might get a better response.

At this point I'm half-tempted to just copy-paste a bunch of Courage Wolf memes just to see what the reaction would be.
 
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S.G

Feb 9, 2010
664
1
I don't generally post on the forums anymore because 99% of the time, nobody cares about what I (or anyone else) says when they have their mind set.

I can also say with full confidence that I have nothing against maxllah nor Andrei (in fact, I love flourishing and I don't do any magic) and fully respect Steerpike (mentalism and that genre has always fascinated me).

After that little preface, I'd also like to say that I'm a fairly positive person but I don't think that Steerpike has, in any way, been negative in this thread. He has answered the OP's original question and then told him some ways to fix it. There have been no personal attacks and no real aggressive attitudes.

Andrei, I completely understand why it would offend you if someone spoke down to something that you make a living out of/really enjoy doing, but I really don't see why you don't like Steerpike's idea. I'm not in the magic/flourishing/entertainment industry but even I see the value behind Steerpike's advice. He's merely providing a method to make cardistry more prominent in circles other than online forums. There's certainly nothing wrong with that.

To the OP, no, cardistry is not internationally recognizable right now, but there's no reason as to why it can't be in the future.

Again, this entire post will probably be completely ignored (as seems to be the pattern) and I apologize if I've offended anyone but that's just my point of view.
 
May 17, 2013
42
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annapolis maryland
thank you S.G

andrei was just trying to post a reply on what he thinks of cardistry.
but steerpike keeps giving us bad feedback.
at first i wanted to hear what he had to say, but since he argued with andrei and was trying to give me cardistry advice that was not helpful, as it was more negative i don't want to hear his advise.

but right now lets just get back on track.

do you guys have any good creative ways to promote cardistry
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
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Again, this entire post will probably be completely ignored (as seems to be the pattern) and I apologize if I've offended anyone but that's just my point of view.

For what it's worth, I appreciate the vote of confidence. I know I can be difficult to work with, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I've decided not to bother with this particular thread after this. Max and Andrei repeatedly insist that my advice is bad/too negative, but they've never qualified those statements or told me what exactly to do about it beyond vague assertions to stop saying things they don't like and that I don't belong here because I'm not just like them. They ask for more creative ideas, but there's a reason you don't see any Fortune 500 companies with an "ideas" department. If that's the way they feel and they're not willing to meet me half-way, there's nothing I can do about it.

On a happier note, the next thread in my Crash Course in Business series goes up tomorrow. I'll be talking about testimonials. How to get them, how to use them, and how they help you. So anyone reading this who's serious about going pro, look for it in the General boards. I've already got 5 up, and I plan to keep going through December as well. It's like the jokes on Mystery Science Theater 3000: the right people will get it.

Cheers, SG. If I don't see you again before the year's over, Happy Holidays.

Everyone else? Peace. And all that jazz.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
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thank you S.G

andrei was just trying to post a reply on what he thinks of cardistry.
but steerpike keeps giving us bad feedback.
at first i wanted to hear what he had to say, but since he argued with andrei and was trying to give me cardistry advice that was not helpful, as it was more negative i don't want to hear his advise.

but right now lets just get back on track.

do you guys have any good creative ways to promote cardistry

Can I just ask - How was it negative? How was it not helpful? He outlined a clear path to achieve exactly what you want. Literally, step by step to do exactly what you want.

How is that negative?
 
May 17, 2013
42
0
annapolis maryland
he was not
andrei was the only one giving me the advise that was both positive and encouraging
steerpike was within the limits, andrei was going beyond the limits


where did he outline the path and how would he know.
he's not a flourisher
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
Let's look at this differently.

Person 1 asks "How do I do this?"

Responder A says, "To do that, you need to this, this and this."

Responder B says, "Don't listen to any nay sayers - just keep at it!"

Which one of these is actually telling you anything that will achieve your goal?
 

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
5,877
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stick to the topic.

DO ANY OF YOU HAVE GOOD WAS TO PROMOTE CARDISTRY.


We are on topic.

I have a pretty good way to promote cardistry:

All businesses start as a response to a demand in the market. The problem with the flourish community right now is that demand for this type of performance is very limited and awareness, while better than it was 10 years ago, is still incredibly niche. Furthermore, relegating it strictly to commercials and video only further narrows the scope of what is possible. These are challenges that, while not insurmountable, a performer still needs to be aware of going in.

So let's take a hypothetical young flourisher. For the sake of discussion, we'll refer to him as James. James understands the challenges described above, so he decides to start small and work his way up. The first thing he needs to do is hone his skills through practical experience while also absorbing performance theory and media theory.

James begins this little trek by going onto the streets to do short flourishing routines for tips in the style of a busking juggler or a guerrilla magician. The streets are a true crucible that force you to step up your game in a hurry or you don't get tips. James also searches for open-mic nights at all the local coffee shops, juice bars, etc. This also serves the double purpose of being an excellent place to network with other local artists. Remember, to get on TV, David Blaine first did an insane amount of networking among the various artists, actors, filmmakers and musicians in his native NYC. He learned all about media from them and it in turn enhanced his own abilities as a performer.

At the same time, James goes to the library to learn a little about marketing and copywriting. He's going to be a one-man operation for the foreseeable future, so he needs to learn the business side of entertainment. Once he's feeling more comfortable in front of audiences, he starts by setting up an online presence with some social media, maybe a website, but most definitely building up a mailing list. He collects emails whenever he performs and keeps people updated of when and where he's going to be performing, what new material he's working on, new videos, etc.

Once he's established as a regular at the open-mic nights, he starts asking the bosses if they could give him some testimonials for his website. By now, if he's tracking the open rate to his email list, he should have a better idea of what demographics and types of people respond to his act as well as what aspects of it people seem to like the best, including in his own personality and the persona he projects when performing. With a handle on this, he sheds what isn't working and plays up what is.

For the sake of argument, let's say that James is a debonair, charming guy like an old-fashioned movie star. He's classy, witty and keeps his mouth shut enough to be intriguing and a little bit mysterious. He starts performing on stage wearing only black and white and using cards with similarly classy looks. He notes that his audience especially likes the aerial moves he's worked into his show, so he expands on that, even adding card throwing to his list of skills. He might even make vegetable chopping with thrown cards a part of his act.

Once he has a decent list going (at least several hundred strong) with an open rate of higher 10%, that's enough for a modest, though not great start. He puts together a list of bars, clubs and other venues that are known to book live entertainment. If he's kept up with his networking, he might even team up with a couple of other entertainers such as musicians to offer a package deal to the prospects. They put together the direct mail campaign and follow up. They persist in mailing and calling until they either are given the gigs or the venue starts hanging up on them. One of the hooks James uses in his campaign is the uniqueness of his act translating to word of mouth and bragging rights for the venue. They're hosting a talent unlike anything else in the area, drawing people in through sheer novelty. Your job as an entertainer is to always, no exceptions, make the guy who booked you look good and possibly make him a little wealthier by the end of the night.

When James finally does get his gigs, he always, always, always tries to add as many people as he can to his list. He gets more testimonials. He sends out new mailers. He designs mail campaigns to venues that already booked him to get repeat gigs. Once he's established himself, he then has a strong platform to jump into other media such as TV appearance, web video at popular sites, etc.

Can the same end result be achieved through serendipity? Yes. But Cinderella stories are few and far between. It's playing the lottery. It cannot be depended on to produce consistent results.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The above story is hypothetical, but the actions I described work consistently. It's very doable, very achievable. It does require work on your part, but it's far more likely to produce results than just posting more videos on YouTube and hoping that someone sees you.

It doesn't matter if it's cardistry, circus, magic, mentalism or mime. The entertainment business is the entertainment business.

I'm done here. I'm following his example.

You clearly don't want any actual advice, only platitudes.
 
May 8, 2013
3
0
Wi
I would say no, mostly because whenever I bring it up into a conversation, I have to explain what is is. But In a way, We I personally would prefer it like that, because when You show a card flourish to a person who has never seen it before, They crap their pants. Its like showing magic, but it doesn't require an explanation while doing it.
 
May 17, 2013
42
0
annapolis maryland
i already said

i don't want to hear advise from steerpike, i want to hear advise from andrei. why? because he made it, and steerpike didn't make it. if steerpike did flourishing then i would listen to him.

its like bill gates giving advise to donald trump about real estate. it dosen't work like that.

by the way that is a senario, not a clear path on how one should persue cardistry
if you want the real story ask andrei
 
Apr 17, 2013
885
4
i already said

i don't want to hear advise from steerpike, i want to hear advise from andrei. why? because he made it, and steerpike didn't make it. if steerpike did flourishing then i would listen to him.

its like bill gates giving advise to donald trump about real estate. it dosen't work like that.

by the way that is a senario, not a clear path on how one should persue cardistry
if you want the real story ask andrei

How has steer not made it? It is making a living doing what he loves. Steer and myself and more than a few others have done the networking and the legwork to make sure we have food on the table and the bills paid by doing magic. Don't want to listen to people who had to work at it and not get lucky knowing people fine I'm out
 
May 17, 2013
42
0
annapolis maryland
How has steer not made it? It is making a living doing what he loves. Steer and myself and more than a few others have done the networking and the legwork to make sure we have food on the table and the bills paid by doing magic. Don't want to listen to people who had to work at it and not get lucky knowing people fine I'm out

we were talking about CARDISTRY !!!!!!

is steerpike as good or as knowledgeable in cardistry as andrei. NO

we are not talking about magic, so stop bringing it up and focus on the topic.

DO ANY OF YOU "CARD FLOURISHERS" HAVE COOL WAYS TO PROMOTE CARDISTRY
 
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Apr 17, 2013
885
4
we were talking about CARDISTRY !!!!!!

is steerpike as good or as knowledgeable in cardistry as andrei. NO

we are not talking about magic, so stop bringing it up and focus on the topic.

DO ANY OF YOU "CARD FLOURISHERS" HAVE COOL WAYS TO PROMOTE CARDISTRY

Let me give you a hint. It doesn't matter what you are trying to promote, the same tricks work. Worked for me in radio, magic and as a graphic designer. So when you grow up and are willing to listen to people who make money working for themselves, then you will learn something.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't matter what you are trying to promote, the same tricks work. Worked for me in radio, magic and as a graphic designer. So when you grow up and are willing to listen to people who make money working for themselves, then you will learn something.

I think it's time to give up the ghost on this one. The kid has resorted to typing in all caps and using... how many there... six exclamation points for a single sentence. He's naive, emotional, and looking for the get-rich-quick solution. Andrei has admitted that he is not a professional performer, but the kid still wants to believe that he is. It would be a little heartwarming if he wasn't being so shrill, abrasive, and insulting about it.

When people argue from an emotional stance, you can't sway them with logic. Only more emotion gets through to them. And this thread isn't worth that.

As a parting thought, I just think it's a shame that the tribalism has gotten so bad that no one is allowed to just disagree anymore. These days your opponent isn't just wrong. He's also an *******.

Peace.
 
May 17, 2013
42
0
annapolis maryland
once again you are not a flourisher you don't have any good advice, and you are the one that want to start stuff.

i have tried many times to get the topic back on track. but since you wana try to be a badass and giving bad advice, you have ruined this thread for everybody.

I WILL CONTINUE TO USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE YOU PAY SO MUCH ATTENTION TO MY THREAD.

I DON'T KNOW YOU AND I DON'T CARE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE ALL YOU DO IS COME BACK TO MY THREAD AND ARGUE IN SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T DO.

I ALSO KNOW THAT YOU ARE OVER 21 AND STILL SIT AT A COMPUTER ALL DAY ARGUING WITH OTHER MEN

BUT NOT ME BECAUSE I'M ONLY 15.
 

yyyyyyy

Elite Member
Apr 7, 2012
537
12
Geez, can you get a grip? You asked a question and around 4-5 people have attempted to answer it. What are you still complaining about? There is no definitive "method" to finding success in cardistry. Andrei is saying that there isn't a definitive method, but through persistence and optimism you will eventually find a method. The rest of us are saying that persistence and optimism alone isn't enough. We're saying that you need a more concrete goal in mind. What is your definition of "succeeding", what are you trying to accomplish? We're trying to be realistic as opposed to encouraging some sort of pipe dream. On a side note, "being 15" doesn't make all caps and disrespect socially acceptable. I'm only 16, compose yourself.
 
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