A renaissance of cardistry

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
Cardistry is at an impasse. It has moved from being a revolutionary art to a blindly knitted quilt of two-handed cuts. In its present state, it is a dichotomy of material being constantly released and originality being found only in the corners. It is experiencing a degradation. Cardists seem to long for the elusive new. Some do not persist toward this end and settle for repetition and overkill. As the artisans, we cannot let this happen.

I am interested in creating a literary project based on cardistry, a place to display and talk about the art in an intellectual setting. If anyone is interested, please message me for more details. Those with a strong narrative mindset are encouraged to inquire.

Ian
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I am interested in creating a literary project based on cardistry,

You have my attention. Go on. Please do not be coy, actually sizzle this for me because I'm intrigued to see what you're thinking.

Everything you just said is false..
I concur with Franky. Very eloquently written, though.

You boys actually want to develop those thoughts? Come up with an actual, thoughtful response to what he said? Or are you just here to spin your wheels as much as you spin pasteboards?
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
Franky and fabiooris, I disagree entirely. While cardistry is indeed at an upswing for the first time in a while, it is still a small one, and one that needs to be added to in order to have the necessary weight for movement.

Steerpike, I'd like to begin the process on beginning a journal of cardistry, a space where a focused community of dedicated artists can let loose with their work. I'm not sure what it would entail insofar as content, but it would be a coterie, if you will, of cardistry. The form's been bastardized enough throughout the years, and it deserves a proper treatment. Something that truly explores it as an art and not simply videos with dubstep in the background.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Steerpike, I'd like to begin the process on beginning a journal of cardistry, a space where a focused community of dedicated artists can let loose with their work. I'm not sure what it would entail insofar as content, but it would be a coterie, if you will, of cardistry. The form's been bastardized enough throughout the years, and it deserves a proper treatment. Something that truly explores it as an art and not simply videos with dubstep in the background.

Well, that's a tall order. Not impossible, but definitely challenging. To get such a group together, you're going to need people with skills outside of their ability to do two-handed cuts really fast. You'll need at least a couple of serious performers in there. Certainly people with theatrical and/or artistic education and training. Wouldn't hurt to have someone with business experience in there as well. Finding people with the knowledge would be the easy part. Finding the ones with the will to do so will be exponentially more difficult.
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
I've definitely considered all of that. While it is a demanding premise, I believe that there is enough passion about the art to facilitate such an entity. It will surely take time, but I think it could create an alternate, collective environment. Do you have any ideas on how to go about such a thing?
 
Jan 3, 2012
21
0
I have the feeling as if you are comparing Magic to Card Flourishing and how it isnt up to "standards" with where the Magic community is currently at. Please, do keep in mind that Magic has been around for hundreds of years compared to this relatively new art form.

Also, this is all personal opinion. If you think Dubstep and two handed cuts is all that Cardistry is entitled to, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Many people use other genres and ways to convey a message through Cardistry. Its combining other art forms/mediums that they enjoy. Knocking that down or making fun of that is just immature. Though, there are TONS of people that do not represent the art form as it should be, but you can say that about anything. Being creative isnt about what others think, its about what you enjoy as an individual. Let people mess up and make mistakes. Naturally, if others enjoy what you do as well, they have the option to follow.

I also believe Cardistry is better then ever. I talk to card flourishers on a daily basis along with magicians and a lot of them are some of the best friends I have. Some create, some preform (even cardistry!) and some only preform others material because they find it more enjoyable. I just dont believe you should talk about the entire Cardistry community as if you were its representative and know all its needs.
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
Franky, you must have completely misinterpreted my post. I don't seek to question cardistry's legitimacy or value. I love it as an art form and want to see it (pun intended) flourish. Often, though, it's cheapened because people don't put enough time or effort into it. Of course, this is not true for everyone. I see a lot of talent out there, and there are people doing wildly original stuff. I want to bring that to the forefront, to yank it from the sea of pasteboard detritus and put it out there for everyone to see.

Nor do I see myself as the art's "representative." I practice cardistry myself, but I am nowhere near as good as 99% of cardists out there. I am a writer and thought it would be nice to have a journal-based community that people could submit to––sort of like Kardistry, but with issues and features, giving cardistry the concentrated attention it really deserves.
 
Jan 3, 2012
21
0
Franky, you must have completely misinterpreted my post. I don't seek to question cardistry's legitimacy or value. I love it as an art form and want to see it (pun intended) flourish. Often, though, it's cheapened because people don't put enough time or effort into it. Of course, this is not true for everyone. I see a lot of talent out there, and there are people doing wildly original stuff. I want to bring that to the forefront, to yank it from the sea of pasteboard detritus and put it out there for everyone to see.

Nor do I see myself as the art's "representative." I practice cardistry myself, but I am nowhere near as good as 99% of cardists out there. I am a writer and thought it would be nice to have a journal-based community that people could submit to––sort of like Kardistry, but with issues and features, giving cardistry the concentrated attention it really deserves.

I did not misinterpret what you were saying at all lol. Matter of fact, I already stated that tons of people do not represent the Cardistry community properly but that is MY opinion. But, Cardistry is doing great lol. Its in movies, commercials an even featured on the Discovery Channel! I think thats HUGE! Your statements were pretty harsh. Let people make mistakes and if you dont wanna watch dubstep and two handed cuts, move on the the next video or better yet, meet up with the nearest cardist.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Do you have any ideas on how to go about such a thing?

I really wish that I could, but my own experiences have proven the cliche that organizing artists is like herding cats. You need to convince people that there's something in this for them beyond just vague promises. You need to offer them a value that they can get their heads around and see benefit from quickly or it's not going to be worth their time.

I have the feeling as if you are comparing Magic to Card Flourishing and how it isnt up to "standards" with where the Magic community is currently at. Please, do keep in mind that Magic has been around for hundreds of years compared to this relatively new art form.

Dude, you're not starting from zero. You have the shoulders of giants to stand on, and you do in fact have centuries of artistic and theater tradition/theory to draw upon, the only challenge being in discovering the nuances particular to your art. Please do not use newness as an excuse. The problem isn't the lack of tools, it's the fact that you're not using them.

If you think Dubstep and two handed cuts is all that Cardistry is entitled to,

Entitled? Are you positive that was the word you were looking for? Because I don't think it was.

Many people use other genres and ways to convey a message through Cardistry.

Examples?

Being creative isnt about what others think, its about what you enjoy as an individual.

That would be following your bliss moreso than creativity.

Let people mess up and make mistakes. Naturally, if others enjoy what you do as well, they have the option to follow.

What does all this have to do with the point of this thread? You're not so much describing an argument or opinion as a vague observation of stuff that happens.

I also believe Cardistry is better then ever. I talk to card flourishers on a daily basis along with magicians and a lot of them are some of the best friends I have. Some create, some preform (even cardistry!) and some only preform others material because they find it more enjoyable.

The first sentence gives me your premise. The sentences that follow that offer no support for that assertion whatsoever. If you have proof that flourishing is better than ever, you're welcome to share it.

I'm sorry dude, but what is it you want me to think? I truly don't know what point you're trying to make here.
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
Once again, I do not disagree with you. I have said twice now that it is indeed on a rise for the first time in a while. What I'm basically feeling around for is a group to start a literary community for cardistry, sort of in the vein of the Cardist magazine that was around a couple of years ago. I'm not knocking it as an art form, nor do I think my statements were harsh. If they were, it was unintentional. It seems you and I are arguing the same side, haha.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I did not misinterpret what you were saying at all lol. Matter of fact, I already stated that tons of people do not represent the Cardistry community properly but that is MY opinion.

Oh, is it really your opinion? I mean you only said it like 5 times so I don't know how sincere you are about that being your opinion.

But, Cardistry is doing great lol. Its in movies, commercials an even featured on the Discovery Channel! I think thats HUGE! Your statements were pretty harsh. Let people make mistakes and if you dont wanna watch dubstep and two handed cuts, move on the the next video or better yet, meet up with the nearest cardist.

Oh, it's on TV? Well why didn't you say so? Stop the presses! The art has reached its pinnacle! It's all downhill from here ladies and gentlemen. The guys doing tow-handed cuts have perfected flourishing. You can all go back to YouTube now, the work is done.

I'm not knocking it as an art form, nor do I think my statements were harsh. If they were, it was unintentional. It seems you and I are arguing the same side, haha.

He's just annoyed because you weren't speaking in empty platitudes. Don't pay attention to the peanut gallery. You have ambition and the capacity for critical thought. Keep it up. If anyone's not cool with that, they're fault for being on the wrong page.
 

wZEnigma

Elite Member
Jun 17, 2009
1,511
153
NE Ohio.
ianchandlerwriting.com
Great conversation! While I certainly don't mean to anger anyone, it's a lively discussion for sure! Steerpike, I see what you mean. Getting a group together is a tough endeavor. I've thought about contacting some individuals and seeing where I can go from there, but I don't want this to be my claim to fame by any means at all. I'm actually probably one of the least "proper" people to do this––I'm a hobbyist who doesn't put in Buck-esque hours to hone my cuts. I thought it'd be cool, especially with the lack of a cardistry community right now.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I'm actually probably one of the least "proper" people to do this––I'm a hobbyist who doesn't put in Buck-esque hours to hone my cuts. I thought it'd be cool, especially with the lack of a cardistry community right now.

That does add an extra challenge. People don't generally follow someone who won't do what he asks others to do. One of the reasons "chickenhawk" is an enduring insult, but I digress.

If not going pro yourself, you need to at least show a certain level of interest in the academic study of the art. It wouldn't be remiss to study a couple of books on media theory or stagecraft. Or perhaps a study of the art's history. You know, something academic or cerebral. Demonstrates that you are willing to pitch in your share alongside the guys who are walking to their own paths. Ambition has to be supplemented with work or its just daydreams.
 
Jan 3, 2012
21
0
Great conversation! While I certainly don't mean to anger anyone, it's a lively discussion for sure! Steerpike, I see what you mean. Getting a group together is a tough endeavor. I've thought about contacting some individuals and seeing where I can go from there, but I don't want this to be my claim to fame by any means at all. I'm actually probably one of the least "proper" people to do this––I'm a hobbyist who doesn't put in Buck-esque hours to hone my cuts. I thought it'd be cool, especially with the lack of a cardistry community right now.

Im just saying that the first post was a little grim on what you perceive cardistry to be. Its much more then two handed cuts and being degraded. Though, I think your intentions are great! Cardistry needs to be more then just a media based art form.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
"It has moved from being a revolutionary art to a blindly knitted quilt of two-handed cuts"

Thats not grim?^

No. I think it's a fairly accurate portrayal of how stagnant things have gotten lately. You're going through a slump right now. The market is reaching a saturation point, quality control has declined, and the new blood are mostly copying each other. It's a cycle most arts go through every decade or so and lasts a couple of years until something happens to break the pattern. It's just endemic.

Yeah, going through it is frustrating, but it doesn't last forever. The key is finding the people who are poised to break the mold. Easier said than done, granted.

Anyone who tells you differently is either inexperienced or trying to sell you something.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
I think a good starting point for this idea would be to set up a blog (or mabe a podcast if time and inclination permit) which featured in-depth interviews with people who might be able to signpost some future directions cardistry could take. People who understand what cardistry and non-magical manipulation is all about and are able to relate it to other performance arts.

Charlie Frye is a name which instantly springs to mind. As someone who has a foot planted in both the juggling and magic worlds, and with a long, varied and successful career, he'd be perfectly placed to talk about the nitty-gritty of what goes into getting a niche performance art in front of real people. From another perspective, someone like Michael Moschen would have great insights into turning a display of skill into a truly expressive performance.

Essentialy, I'm expanding on Steerpike's point. The key, as I see it, is to break cardistry out of the insular state it's in at the moment. And the way to do that is to seek insights from other areas of the performing arts. Jugglers get booked and everyone knows what juggling is. So what is it they do that cardists aren't currently doing? A blog which sought to answer this question, and to tie cardistry in with the centuries-old tradition of object manipulation to which it belongs, would probably be a good step forward for the scene.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results