Real Magic

Jan 31, 2012
37
0
There are hundreds of thousands of magic products out there on the market. Most of these are Magic ?Tricks.? Emphasis on tricks. Of all the thousands of magic tricks on the market, only a select few can be deemed as ?magic?

Tricks like the ambitious card routine and a simple transposition using a deck of cards is not magic. Sure it is a magic trick but it cannot be deemed as magic. Even laymen know that it can?t be. They can assume that it is just some good and fast sleight of hand.

However there are tricks such as David Williamson?s triumph that fall under a whole new category. It falls under the category of tricks that to anybody, including most magicians, can only explain it to be nothing short of a miracle or real magic.

I want to know what tricks you know that fall into this category. What tricks do you know that can be considered a jaw dropping, absolute freaking miracle? A piece of magic that comes so close to the real thing that you can?t tell them apart.

I think that if you expand ourselves and challenge ourselves to go beyond that ?trick,? and start doing things considered real magic, we would all become better magicians. So if you do know any pieces of magic that come so close to the real thing that you can?t tell them apart, please list them and provide a link to the page where you can buy it.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
I think maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. You can't buy the qualities that turn a trick into real magic. You might buy an explanation of an ingenious, deceptive method or a clever gimmick but it will only transcend trickery and become magic in performance.
 
Jan 31, 2012
37
0
Sorry, that isn't exactly what I meant. Of course it is the magician that turns the trick into magic, but there are just some tricks that stand out among others.

The classic Ambitious card plot is a trick but no matter how great a performance, it will more often than not be seen as good sleight of hand, maybe even a trick but not magic.

I am looking to see what tricks you think are worthy of making that list. Some tricks have that knack for being seen as magic or a miracle. Something that can't be explained by lets say a trapdoor or simply sleight of hand. One that looks truly impossible. That is what I am looking for.

I did mention a triumph by David Williamson and you would agree that if you have seen it, it can be explained by nothing short of a miracle or magic.

Sorry if I worded that incorrectly. I am a fairly experienced magician looking for new ideas that can be looked upon as magic rather than lets say sleight of hand.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
My previous comment stands. Allow me to expand.

Imagine you've selected and signed a playing card. You know it's the only one like it in the world. Then you see me put that signed card into the middle of the deck. And I mean genuinely. You weren't misdirected, there were no switches, it's definitely your signed card going into the middle of the deck. The deck is squared and held on my open palm. There are no breaks, crimps or any other indicators that could help me find or control your card. With my other hand I cast a shadow over the deck. The deck is shaded for a second...not even a second, maybe half a second...there's no way any sleight-of-hand could have happened in that moment. And if any sleight-of-hand did happen that quick then that's pretty damn magical in itself. Surely nothing could have happened to your signed, lost selection. Surely. I proffer the deck to you. You turn over the top card. Somehow, inexplicably, impossibly, it's your signed selection. There's no way. That's magic. That's the Ambitious Card.

It is absolutely possible, through routining and performance, to create magic with an Ambitious Card routine. It's also absolutely possible to take David Williamson's Triumph routine (or any other routine you care to name), perform it move for move, patter line for patter line, exactly like the creator and for it to appear as nothing more than a vaguely interesting puzzle. Asking what tricks look like real magic is like asking what business will make you a millionaire. The answer ultimately has to come from each one of us individually.
 
Jan 4, 2014
31
0
Hey,

I think i somewhat understand what you me but as teedee states its opinions that come from each and everyone of us.

That being said for me the tricks that tend to fall under that category are tricks that you dont have to do as much or no moves at all. For example "The Raven". You honestly dont have to do anything but wave your hand and there is magic for even the performer. so here is a list of "Magic" that i love its like candy for my eyes.

In no particular order:
1) Breakthrough by Johannes Mengel : http://www.ellusionist.com/breakthrough-by-johannes-mengel.html : $29.95
2) N4 coin set paired with the N3 as well : http://www.ellusionist.com/n4-coin-gimmick.html : N4 - $54.95 / bundle - $99
3) Invisible by Damien Savina : http://www.ellusionist.com/invisible-by-damien-savina.html : $44.95
4) Descent by Justin Miller : http://www.ellusionist.com/descent-by-justin-miller-download.html : $7
5) Regeneration by Blake Vogt : https://store.theory11.com/products/regeneration-by-blake-vogt : $49.95
6) Rapture by Edward Boswell : https://store.theory11.com/products/rapture-by-edward-boswell : $19.95
7) Linx by Alex Pandrea : https://store.theory11.com/products/linx-alex-pandrea : $6.95
8) Any Signed Card to Any Spectators wallet by Jeff Kaylor and Micheal Ammar : http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2546 : $39.99

Hope these are tricks that you like. :)
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Ok. . .for starters NO CARD TRICK will ever come off as "real magick" in that you are up against a couple of psychological/sociological walls;

a.) the general public associate playing cards with gambling & magic
b.) both gambling & magic are known for card control & manipulation

This is why playing cards don't work well in Mentalism and to some degree, Bizarre Magick; you're running into this dynamic. But in your case I think there is a 3rd complication; personal bias. You, with trained eyes and knowledge, view certain effects as being "lame" vs. how other effects impress you. . . for now . . . this perspective will change the longer you're involved with magic and the bits that blow your mind presently will fall into that Ambitious Card niche you've created, in a few years as you learn and see more.

It's no secret that I loathe card magic, not completely but mostly, too many "magicians" are addicted to the things and can't seemingly perform anything but and few perform them well. Guys like the late Martin Nash or Johnny Thompson I can watch all night long because they are true artist in what they do but this is a rare encounter . . . and yes, there are some young talents, such as Eric Stevens that are on the rise when it comes to such style. But there is another reason why I personally avoid card tricks . . . they don't support my personal goals as a performer, which is to create a genuine magickle experience for the audience in the sense of what magic used to be -- a mystical encounter vs. a pile of tricks; it's a "new" branch in the craft known as Urban~Shamanism and if you're looking for "real magic" I'd suggest that you do some research.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
Ok. . .for starters NO CARD TRICK will ever come off as "real magick"

Just to be clear, I very carefully said "magic", rather than "magick" when discusing an ambitious card routine. Will people think it's the work of gods, spirits or my ethereal self when the card jumps to the top? No, certainly not. However, could it be seen as a moment of real wonder, a moment where the limits of the possible suddenly seem less rigid? Yes, and that's what I mean by saying that a card trick can be "real magic".

Of course, though, if the OP wants to get into "real magick" then that's a whole different matter...
 

matthewwhitt2

Elite Member
Ok. . .for starters NO CARD TRICK will ever come off as "real magick" in that you are up against a couple of psychological/sociological walls;
/QUOTE]

I would disagree with that. Mainly for the trick Angle Z by Daniel Madison. I think any card trick that can fool a seasoned magician can be considered "real magic" in the sense that cardist4476 is referring to.
 
I would disagree with that. Mainly for the trick Angle Z by Daniel Madison. I think any card trick that can fool a seasoned magician can be considered "real magic" in the sense that cardist4476 is referring to.

Fooling magicians doesn't make a trick any better, usually just more complicated actually. The most baffling inexplicable effect to a magician is the same as the biddle trick or a well performed french drop to a layman. It either fools them or it doesn't. The "magic" is in the presentation.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
The "magic" is in the presentation.

I could not agree more.

I do think there is a distinct difference between "Card magic" and "magic with cards". Card magic will almost always come across as (at best) a very clever trick. As much as I enjoy practicing and executing card sleights - there's just too much psychology and history behind the idea of "card tricks". And let's be honest - if it was "real" magic why would you be fiddling with cards like that? How would that be your ultimate display of power?

Now, that's not to say that cards can't come across as magical. There are things that seem like genuine magic or at least can be framed as such. It's just that most magicians stop worrying about it once they get to "this is impossible!". They don't realize that impossible does NOT equal magical.
 

matthewwhitt2

Elite Member
I agree that it is all in presenting the trick. I was just saying this is what I believe was what the starter of this thread was talking about. I could be very wrong, but it seemed to me that he just wanted some tricks that were so good they had to be real magic.
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,793
888
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
A great book on this topic is Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz.

I find the more simple, the more profound it can be. I also find mentalism stirs more in people than typical tricks. However, I think there is more fun entertainment potential in magic than in mentalism.

I love making a silk appear and disappear close up. It is so simple, visual, direct. I present it in a way that makes it so clear it cannot escape. Blows people away (I also live in a place without a lot of magicians, so very few people have ever seen this before).
 
Jan 31, 2012
37
0
It is absolutely possible, through routining and performance, to create magic with an Ambitious Card routine. It's also absolutely possible to take David Williamson's Triumph routine (or any other routine you care to name), perform it move for move, patter line for patter line, exactly like the creator and for it to appear as nothing more than a vaguely interesting puzzle. Asking what tricks look like real magic is like asking what business will make you a millionaire. The answer ultimately has to come from each one of us individually.

I know that is what you meant. Actually I don't I was being clear enough or at all. That would be my bad.

I wasn't bashing on any particular tricks like the ambitious card. Of course it can be turned into a magical piece with enough practice and development. In addition I would never perform a trick exactly as another magician would. That way of performance is for that magicians style of performing.

What I was looking for was not just the trick to perform. I was looking for ideas to synthesize and develop. As I have mentioned I am a quite experienced magician and would like to take my magic to the next level. I was hoping to gain some ideas to work on.

You can say that if that is the case then any magic will do. But I was in particular looking for magic that is very good that I could take and synthesize. I was seeking to take certain ideas from a variety of tricks to make something magical into something of a miracle. If the trick is already a freaking miracle, then I would have liked to take it and put my own spin on it, my own variation of the method.

So my question still stands. Although I will reword it a little. If there are any tricks that look to be absolute miracles I would like to know so I can expand my magic skills. If there is any piece of magic that would have no other explanation than a miracle, please list them for all of us to know as well as provide a link to buy or the performance so we can all take our magic to the next step.
 
Dec 5, 2013
146
2
Boston
If the trick is already a freaking miracle

I think what a lot of the guys here are trying to say is that there isn't a single trick the you can purchase that is a "freaking miracle". No matter how clean regeneration is or how visual n4 coins are, they are nothing until you presentation turns them into magic.
 
Jan 31, 2012
37
0
But Im not asking for it to be a miracle because I want to perform it that way. I want it to be a miracle so that I can improve it and make it better, take it to the next level. If that is not apparently possible, put my own style into it, variate it so that it doesn't become regeneration or n4 coins. It becomes the magic that I will perform and awe people with.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
But Im not asking for it to be a miracle because I want to perform it that way. I want it to be a miracle so that I can improve it and make it better, take it to the next level. If that is not apparently possible, put my own style into it, variate it so that it doesn't become regeneration or n4 coins. It becomes the magic that I will perform and awe people with.

Poker Player's Picnic can seem like a miracle if presented correctly.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Just to be clear, I very carefully said "magic", rather than "magick" when discusing an ambitious card routine. Will people think it's the work of gods, spirits or my ethereal self when the card jumps to the top? No, certainly not. However, could it be seen as a moment of real wonder, a moment where the limits of the possible suddenly seem less rigid? Yes, and that's what I mean by saying that a card trick can be "real magic".

Of course, though, if the OP wants to get into "real magick" then that's a whole different matter...

You are correct in the fantasiful sense TD that the Ambitious Card becomes "magical" in the sense of casual enchantment or mystery and I do believe that needs to be the goal of the mage; create intrigue vs. a puzzle and take what you do beyond the idea of being "an obvious trick" . . . take your audience on a journey that's "fun" so to speak.

I've found however that many asking a question of this sort are looking at what I originally posted on. . . the idea of Magick vs. Magic; the manifestation of the miraculous and inexplicable vs. known and established trickery.
 
Aug 17, 2008
473
13
Ann Arbor, MI
There are hundreds of thousands of magic products out there on the market. Most of these are Magic ?Tricks.? Emphasis on tricks. Of all the thousands of magic tricks on the market, only a select few can be deemed as ?magic?

Tricks like the ambitious card routine and a simple transposition using a deck of cards is not magic. Sure it is a magic trick but it cannot be deemed as magic. Even laymen know that it can?t be. They can assume that it is just some good and fast sleight of hand.

However there are tricks such as David Williamson?s triumph that fall under a whole new category. It falls under the category of tricks that to anybody, including most magicians, can only explain it to be nothing short of a miracle or real magic.

I want to know what tricks you know that fall into this category. What tricks do you know that can be considered a jaw dropping, absolute freaking miracle? A piece of magic that comes so close to the real thing that you can?t tell them apart.

I think that if you expand ourselves and challenge ourselves to go beyond that ?trick,? and start doing things considered real magic, we would all become better magicians. So if you do know any pieces of magic that come so close to the real thing that you can?t tell them apart, please list them and provide a link to the page where you can buy it.


Though I see where you are going with this, I have to disagree in some degree. Sure there are some effects that are more hard hitting or "magical" like, as you say. I believe that it depends on how the effect is shown. I have shown multiple Ambitious Card Routines and have had amazing reactions from them. The kind that are "Wow. That's magic." Just saying. I think it depends more on the performer rather than the effect itself.
 
Jan 31, 2012
37
0
Though I see where you are going with this, I have to disagree in some degree. Sure there are some effects that are more hard hitting or "magical" like, as you say. I believe that it depends on how the effect is shown. I have shown multiple Ambitious Card Routines and have had amazing reactions from them. The kind that are "Wow. That's magic." Just saying. I think it depends more on the performer rather than the effect itself.


I know what you are going at. If you read above a little, I did reword it. My original wording was horrible and that was a mistake on my part but you can see, in a much better worded way, what I meant and what I was looking for.

What I said above:

I know that is what you meant. Actually I don't I was being clear enough or at all. That would be my bad.

I wasn't bashing on any particular tricks like the ambitious card. Of course it can be turned into a magical piece with enough practice and development. In addition I would never perform a trick exactly as another magician would. That way of performance is for that magicians style of performing.

What I was looking for was not just the trick to perform. I was looking for ideas to synthesize and develop. As I have mentioned I am a quite experienced magician and would like to take my magic to the next level. I was hoping to gain some ideas to work on.

You can say that if that is the case then any magic will do. But I was in particular looking for magic that is very good that I could take and synthesize. I was seeking to take certain ideas from a variety of tricks to make something magical into something of a miracle. If the trick is already a freaking miracle, then I would have liked to take it and put my own spin on it, my own variation of the method.

So my question still stands. Although I will reword it a little. If there are any tricks that look to be absolute miracles I would like to know so I can expand my magic skills. If there is any piece of magic that would have no other explanation than a miracle, please list them for all of us to know as well as provide a link to buy or the performance so we can all take our magic to the next step.
 
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