double turnover, last ditch effort

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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
so yes, I've been working on a double turnover for about 4 months now, and I'm about to revert to just picking the cards up by the edges (which seems very unnatural looking to me) unless anyone has any better ideas -

i always get card separation as i flip the double over. i can drag it to the side fine, cards still in line, but when i let go with my thumb to lightly flip the card, i get a couple millimeters of separation. In dark environment I can get away with it, but broad daylight its no go.

Any advice on how to get those cards to stay together when the thumb and fingers let go to flip them? I've tried putting a bend in the card (vernon) and it helps a little but i still get separation upon letting go of them. This is the most frustrated I've been with anything since I started card magic - perhaps i'm just stubborn, but maybe I missed something. If anyone has any ideas let me know
 
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TeeDee

Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
1. Drag the double to the side.
2. Tilt the left side of the deck downwards until the double and the deck are forming a V shape, with the point of the V where the deck meets your fingers.
3. Lift your right thumb away from the double.
4. Use your index finger to flip the double onto the top of the deck.

The key element here that you might be missing is point 2. Let me know if any of that doesn't make sense to you.
 
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Projeet

Jul 9, 2014
55
8
They are not sharing how to do effects. They are just discussing tips on how to do a sleight.
 
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TeeDee

Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
J3_Egold said:
We can not share how to do effects on these forums.
Click to expand...

I understand your concern, and I certainly agree that exposure should be discouraged. In this, case, though, I don't think this qualifies as harmful exposure. In my opinion, any non-magician reading this thread won't be any more able to reconstruct a magic trick than they would just from hearing the expression "double turnover" in the first place. It's certainly a grey area, though.
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
Ok, I see what you're saying. Even so, the cards are just so touchy and eager to slightly separate as I remove the right thumb. Hmm , maybe time is the answer, definitely frustrating though
 
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TeeDee

Sep 2, 2007
1,186
16
42
London
EricShoff said:
Ok, I see what you're saying. Even so, the cards are just so touchy and eager to slightly separate as I remove the right thumb. Hmm , maybe time is the answer, definitely frustrating though
Click to expand...

Your problem is that you're gripping the cards too tightly, then. Your right thumb should barely be touching the card. In fact, you could get away without using the thumb at all, just using your index finger and gravity to turn the card over.
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
appreciate the help teedee, thank you

the thing is, i do the vernon pushover using the left thumb and ring finger, so when I take that double with the right hand I need a bit of pressure on the cards with the right thumb in order to keep it splitting when retrieving it.

Dont get me wrong, I've seen people able to do the pushover and let go with the left thumb and flip it using the right finger tips, but i am not able to do that yet, it splits when i let go with the left thumb - too early in my card handling career i suppose

but i will try messing around with a lighter right hand grip and see what happens.

I think it also bears mentioning that if I flip them and they go slightly out of line, if i square them quickly with the left pointer finger perhaps this would be a more immediate solution? Anyone ever been caught doing that? Hate to resort to that, but I want this move to be fun again
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
Ok, i've messed around with a lighter touch and it helps a bit, still not perfect. Its almost like my finger is slightly sticky naturally and causes separation coming off the card. Might just be something practice will make better though, not sure.
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
just to update, i never did figure out how to keep em perfectly aligned. Maybe it just takes a year or two. Thanks to everyone for commenting though, great tips
 
AnthonyL

AnthonyL

Oct 5, 2012
246
11
wouldn't you like to know
hmm it's difficult to see in that video, but i think pushing with your left thumb on the edge of the cards will keep them squared for the first half. I'm not sure whats making them separate as they land, the cards should both land square with the deck. That should be be the easiest part.

play around with it, don't try to do it by the book. Just try to get it to work. And if after all that it still doesn't work just switch methods to a something a bit more surefire. I would recommend Larry Jennings snap double.
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
the cards actually separate as my right thumb lets go of the double to flip it over. its not the actual flipping motion. But yeah, maybe i'll just try something easier
 
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TheMagicalSock

Nov 1, 2007
145
0
AnthonyL said:
the cards you're using might be the problem, how often do you switch decks and what kind do you use?
Click to expand...

This is the kind of thing we should never say to a beginner. I have never picked up a deck of cards that was not capable of a double. You should be able to do a double with any deck of cards, period.

When you plant that idea that the cards have something to do with a magician's skill, you encourage a beginner to shop for "higher quality" and vastly more expensive cards rather than practice.

Cameron
 
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EricShoff

Jul 6, 2014
106
7
i've gotten better at it, it's just the touch of letting go with the thumb.

I found out I have been practicing a really difficult double lift, which is largely why it was so hard (vernon loose lifts)
 
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