Things I've noticed with Two-Handed Cardistry

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

So I'm working on a bunch of two-handed cardistry moves for a project and I've noticed a lot of things:

1) I've noticed that one drops the deck A LOT less. This it a bit relieving as a lot of the one handed stuff I've been working on for the last...well, ever; lands on the floor. Then again, THAT a good indication of knowing what you are doing is right or wrong.

2) I can't pause a tutorial. I'm playing a card-based cats cradle in the living room and cursing at the tutorial because I can't stop the video. That problem got old really fast.

3) I'm having a REALLY hard time with tutorials that are text-less and/or silent. I don't know if it's just me as a beginner or if it's lack of effort on the tutor. I've only found ONE tutorial that has done the 'silent film' and it works.
Also, every time I download a tutorial that clocks in at around 3-4 minutes; I look to the sky and utter my favorite 4-letter words in a sequence that can only be described as 'Sonic the Hedgehog with Tourettes'.

4) I have no idea how you guys make individual moves. There are so many variables to factor in and it seems overwhelming to me. Good on you guys for making your own stuff because, man, the idea just seems nuts.

 

[Duncan F.]

HAHA! Nice to know your venture into the world of two-handed cardistry is going smoothly. Your number 2 is a common problem that I couldn't help but laugh at. Wish I could find this old meme about it.

I completely agree with you on #3. It's much harder to learn a move when you don't have someone explaining it to you, especially if you're a beginner. You just have to watch the video a million times so you can pick up all the details. It could be worse though...you could be left handed like me and have to learn how to do a move left-handed from a silent right-handed tutorial. It's doable I assure you, but I currently hate the popular over-the-shoulder angle because of it lol

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

It could be worse though...you could be left handed like me and have to learn how to do a move left-handed from a silent right-handed tutorial. It's doable I assure you, but I currently hate the popular over-the-shoulder angle because of it lol

I think this is crazy because all but ONE of the one-handed tutorials I have ever come across have been left-handed--I'm right handed.

 

[Duncan F.]

I think this is crazy because all but ONE of the one-handed tutorials I have ever come across have been left-handed--I'm right handed.

That's interesting. I never thought of it from your perspective before, but this all must seem very backwards. You see, in magic your dealing hand should be your dominant hand. So if your right handed, you hold the deck in your left hand so you can deal with your right. Hence why most of your one-handed tutorials have been taught in the left hand. The left hand is the deck hand for right-handed people.

I didn't understand this concept when I first got into cards. I'm right handed so I wanted to hold the deck with my right hand. By the time I discovered I was doing it backwards it was too late, and I've been doing left-handed magic/cardistry ever since. On the plus side I can do a dynamite invisible fan lol

So did you learn your one-handed moves in the left hand, or did you switch to the right?

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

That's interesting. I never thought of it from your perspective before, but this all must seem very backwards. You see, in magic your dealing hand should be your dominant hand. So if your right handed, you hold the deck in your left hand so you can deal with your right. Hence why most of your one-handed tutorials have been taught in the left hand. The left hand is the deck hand for right-handed people.

I didn't understand this concept when I first got into cards. I'm right handed so I wanted to hold the deck with my right hand. By the time I discovered I was doing it backwards it was too late, and I've been doing left-handed magic/cardistry ever since. On the plus side I can do a dynamite invisible fan lol

So did you learn your one-handed moves in the left hand, or did you switch to the right?

I started in the right and tried learning the same moves in the left. There's two cuts I haven't tried in left so that I can put more focus on a couple projects.

Regarding the tutorials you mentioned earlier. SOME tutorials NEED over-the-shoulder (Looking at 'Jackfruit' and about 90% of one-handed stuff) because of odd angles. But a lot of the two-handed stuff does the 'head-on' view. But I'm looking at a lot of the older stuff on The Wire and I can see a steady decline in tutorial quality. What tutorial methods work best for you?

 

[jtra]

What I think is an interesting tutorial method is the verbal walkthrough. In this there is no backtracking and going over what just happened. Instead, you go through the flourish verbally. I can usually get the mechanics down from this but I also need slo-mos to help. For example, many Dealers Grip tutorials use this format of tutorial, and I can usually understand what's happening. This is probably my second favorite style of tutorial behind a full verbal tutorial.
However, the thing that most tutorials like this are missing are performances. This may be the most important thing in a tutorial. Learning the flourish is one thing, but knowing what it is supposed to look like is another. And with all the crazy editing and exotic camera angles that these trailers have, it is hard to see what the flourish actually looks like in real time. Sometimes the only way to see a cut uncut is in cardistry videos.
I think cardistry tutorials should take a lesson from magic tutorials and be verbal. There are some cases, like in Patrick's Kinetics project where he couldn't do a verbal tutorial, and it was fine because he showed everything that happened over the shoulder. But most people cannot pull this off. That is why I think that it is absolutely necessary for there to be at least a little talking in every tutorial. Even if it is an introduction to the flourish or a "Hi, thanks for downloading! Hope you can learn it!" because it shows effort.
I'm not sure how this transfers to one-handed cardistry because I haven't done too much with just one hand. I think that one-handed tutorials can be just OTS, but I'm sure it's easier when there is talking.

 

[Duncan F.]

I started in the right and tried learning the same moves in the left. There's two cuts I haven't tried in left so that I can put more focus on a couple projects.

Regarding the tutorials you mentioned earlier. SOME tutorials NEED over-the-shoulder (Looking at 'Jackfruit' and about 90% of one-handed stuff) because of odd angles. But a lot of the two-handed stuff does the 'head-on' view. But I'm looking at a lot of the older stuff on The Wire and I can see a steady decline in tutorial quality. What tutorial methods work best for you?

So are you learning the two-handed cuts right or left handed?

I agree that the OTS view is necessary for a lot of people. My frustration is when it's the only angle they use. I need the head-on view so that I can mirror the actions and learn it left-handed.

I've been doing cardistry a while, so I've grown accustomed to the silent tutorials established by D&D, but they are the hardest to learn from. My personal favorite tutorials are from the Virts. They break everything down so well, and really tailor their videos to the beginner. They use verbal direction, animations, and slo-mo to show you every step of the flourish, and they even give presentation tips. It might be a little excessive for the experienced cardist, but IMO, they are the standard to beat.

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

That is why I think that it is absolutely necessary for there to be at least a little talking in every tutorial. Even if it is an introduction to the flourish or a "Hi, thanks for downloading! Hope you can learn it!" because it shows effort.
I'm not sure how this transfers to one-handed cardistry because I haven't done too much with just one hand. I think that one-handed tutorials can be just OTS, but I'm sure it's easier when there is talking.

That's funny you mentioned this because when I first started shooting the tutorial for 'OH DEAR!', I actually had an intro similar to a couple of magic downloads I acquired. My question for this would be: What would people want to see in an 'intro'?
The obligatory 'thanks' is a nice touch, but would any background info regarding inspiration for the flourish be necessary?

Also, you mentioned performances of a flourish that is taught in a tutorial. I'm a little bit confused by this . Do you mean that the flourish that is taught isn't performed in real-time in tutorials? Or are you saying that a flourish isn't being performed for others and shown in a tutorial?

I am trying hard to make a not-crap tutorial--even though it's going to be free; I want it to be so not-crap it is crazy.

So are you learning the two-handed cuts right or left handed?

I agree that the OTS view is necessary for a lot of people. My frustration is when it's the only angle they use. I need the head-on view so that I can mirror the actions and learn it left-handed.

I've been doing cardistry a while, so I've grown accustomed to the silent tutorials established by D&D, but they are the hardest to learn from. My personal favorite tutorials are from the Virts. They break everything down so well, and really tailor their videos to the beginner. They use verbal direction, animations, and slo-mo to show you every step of the flourish, and they even give presentation tips. It might be a little excessive for the experienced cardist, but IMO, they are the standard to beat.

I am right handed. For two-handed stuff (The flourish I'm working on right now is 'Acrobatic' and 'Glitch') .

Going off of what you described. I am starting the deck in the left hand and 'dealing' with the right. So I THINK I'm doing right-handed stuff.

Although, working with one-handed cuts and immediately trying it in the other hand; you'd be surprised of how much muscle memory transfers over. It helps learning a tricky part in one hand and having it MOSTLY transfer over when you try it with the other.

 

[wZEnigma]

2. Use a free pinky to spacebar-pause the video. Or a toe.

 

[SandFox]

2. Use a free pinky to spacebar-pause the video. Or a toe.

Elbow, chin and forehead are usefull too.
100% tested before.

 

[wZEnigma]

Elbow, chin and forehead are usefull too.
100% tested before.

Unless you're doing the Leno Cut.

 

[jtra]

What I'm referring to is that sometimes there aren't real time performances for the camera. I don't think that for a cardistry tutorial you need to present it to an audience. I feel that there needs to be performances from different angles so you can get a sense of what style, speed, flair, etc. that the creator intended.
Regarding introductions, I think that it is neat when the inspiration and history is included in the intro, but it isn't necessary. It's just a nice touch.

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

What I'm referring to is that sometimes there aren't real time performances for the camera. I don't think that for a cardistry tutorial you need to present it to an audience. I feel that there needs to be performances from different angles so you can get a sense of what style, speed, flair, etc. that the creator intended.
Regarding introductions, I think that it is neat when the inspiration and history is included in the intro, but it isn't necessary. It's just a nice touch.

All right, thank you for clearing that up. It's making me think about one flourish that I have absolutely NO IDEA how to present it (right now, it's rather existentialist--you do the flourish. It exists). But I can now see where an explanation like that could be rather helpful.