Bottom Deal - Erdnase Grip

[P-Train]

Hello,

I've been dabbling in card magic on and off for awhile now. I know a few tricks, but really like gambling moves. Recently, I decided to invest in Jason England's "Bottom Deal" video. This video has me slightly irritated to say the least. The video itself is excellent, I just didn't expect the deal to be so difficult.

I want to learn the bottom deal following Jason England's advice and master each of the grips. The Erdnase grip is proving to be quite difficult to master. I know it will take time to truly master it, and that's time I'm happy to spend. However, after a few days practice, I'm still unable to get a card off the bottom of the deck using this method. I was hoping that someone could help me with the grip by answering the following questions:

1. One of the strengths of this grip as mentioned in the video is the diagonal control of the deck with the middle finger. Do you keep this control through the entirety of the bottom deal, particularly through the "buckle"?
2. How does the "buckle" action happen? Do you put pressure on the bottom (Face) of the card and slide it out, or do you grab the edge of the card with your fingers and slide it out?

I also welcome any "Ah ha!" moments any of you had regarding bottom dealing (particularly with the Erdnase grip) if possible. At the moment, I can't figure out how to get the "buckle" action to work without compromising the control on the diagonal. I can't get cards from the bottom of the deck with this grip.

Thank you in advance for your responses.

 

[Mr.Book]

Some of these moves take years to get close to right. Plan on spending the rest of your life to "master" them. Practice a couple more months and your "slide" will get better. There is nothing quick in gambling subterfuge .


Book

 

[Josh Burch]

The grip is the most important part, if you are not holding the deck correctly than it makes the move impossible to do. Make sure you can hold the deck with the base of your thumb and middle finger. This gives your third finger room to manipulate the bottom card. I don't "Buckle" in the genral sense but I do use that third finger to push the card over. I didn't learn from video though I learned directly from Erdnase. Because of this my grip and deal is a little funky. Here's my deal, I filmed it today it has its issues but I use it daily in secret and in the open.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGXPcpqpFTp/?taken-by=joshuakburch&hl=en

 

[Joey144]

One of the strengths of this grip as mentioned in the video is the diagonal control of the deck with the middle finger. Do you keep this control through the entirety of the bottom deal, particularly through the "buckle"?

I keep the pressure throughout the entire deal. Although I tend to loosen up the grip on the take as it reduces the sound of the bottom deal.

How does the "buckle" action happen? Do you put pressure on the bottom (Face) of the card and slide it out, or do you grab the edge of the card with your fingers and slide it out?

You apply pressure to the bottom (face) card and slide out as your right hand takes the card. To reduce the knuckle flash you should apply the pressure with the side of your ring finger.

However, after a few days practice, I'm still unable to get a card off the bottom of the deck using this method.

It took me months to get to this point So don't give up too quickly.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGXPcpqpFTp/?taken-by=joshuakburch&hl=en

Although you already mentioned it, this is not really an Erdnase Grip. In the Erndase Grip the index finger is at the top left corner of the deck. Just wanted to clarify to avoid any confusion.

 

[P-Train]

Thanks for the responses guys!

I have another question in response to what you all have said. In theory, should I be able to buckle and deal a card without the use of my left thumb? This is purely for practice. I can actually do the buckling action easily with 10-15 cards in my hand and keep the grip. To get the grip down, I'm considering practicing with the smaller pack until I'm comfortable with the buckling action, and adding five cards at a time.'

When I'm working with 2/3rds of the deck, the strength required to buckle the card pushes the entire deck out of the grip. As a result, I grip tighter with my thumb which results in a very sloppy top deal along withan inconsistent bottom deal as well. I'm looking for practical exercises to build my dexterity with this grip. Was wondering if the left thumb is necessary if you're only working with the bottom deal. I'm not worried about cover at this point as I'll work that in once I can consistently get a card off of the bottom.

 

[Josh Burch]

Although you already mentioned it, this is not really an Erdnase Grip. In the Erndase Grip the index finger is at the top left corner of the deck. Just wanted to clarify to avoid any confusion.

Yeah, I should probably stop calling it an Erdnase Bottom. I made some mistakes while I was leaning and they have fossilized :/

I have another question in response to what you all have said. In theory, should I be able to buckle and deal a card without the use of my left thumb? This is purely for practice. I can actually do the buckling action easily with 10-15 cards in my hand and keep the grip. To get the grip down, I'm considering practicing with the smaller pack until I'm comfortable with the buckling action, and adding five cards at a time.'

I can buckle with out my thumb, I don't think you need to be able to. In some ways the pressure from the thumb can help at first.

When I'm working with 2/3rds of the deck, the strength required to buckle the card pushes the entire deck out of the grip. As a result, I grip tighter with my thumb which results in a very sloppy top deal along withan inconsistent bottom deal as well. I'm looking for practical exercises to build my dexterity with this grip. Was wondering if the left thumb is necessary if you're only working with the bottom deal. I'm not worried about cover at this point as I'll work that in once I can consistently get a card off of the bottom.

This still happens for me from time to time. Your hands will adapt to fix the deck as you go and as your hands become stronger it get messy less frequent. I feel like you need to practice with the thumb. Make sure you have the grip perfect and then do each move slowly, yet perfectly exactly how you would up to speed. Repeat it 50 times in a row then take a break. Come back and do it again. It's slow and tedious but it is how I learned.

 

[ladexterite]

I can actually do the buckling action easily with 10-15 cards in my hand and keep the grip. To get the grip down, I'm considering practicing with the smaller pack until I'm comfortable with the buckling action, and adding five cards at a time.'

Try practicing with a full deck just so your hands get a good feel of the 52. It'll be much more easier to bottom with less cards on the deck but this would not be the case if you'll be performing this. Practice the more difficult routine in order for your hands to familiarize the 'feel' of dealing fairly/crookedly from a full deck.

I'm looking for practical exercises to build my dexterity with this grip.

Try dealing fairly then crookedly and repeat 'till you finish the whole deck. This practice has helped me in more the ways than one just so i'd familiarize myself with the bottom deal. Be aware though that there would be much more practice when you get the to bottom deal consistently already. Jason England teaches a routine on how we practices his bottom deal.