Need help with Classic Pass

Jan 8, 2017
2
0
Hi. I'm new to the forums and magic in general (2 weeks). I've been practicing what I guess most might call essential or beginner moves for new magicians. The one I have put a lot of focus into this last week is the classic pass. I've watched a lot of videos and slow mo'd a lot of people and finally have come to this. Would like some feedback please :).

I feel like I can clean it up a lot more. I want a pass that's near invisible even if that means it needs a cover, but I want the cover to look natural. I feel like the movement I use to cover the pass might be too violent. Other covers look very suspicious, but I can't seem to figure out the brick pass, or what Jason England is doing to make it look so good. Any tips, or perhaps books or videos you can point me towards?


 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Welcome to magic and the forums. I think you are doing really great for two weeks.

Let me start with some general comments. A pass isn't a really a beginner's move, but more advanced. The purpose of a pass is to reverse a cut in a deck. There are better moves to use as controls and as color changes. None of that means that you shouldn't learn how to do a pass and do it well.

As you learn card magic, the one principle is that the movement for a sleight should reflect a natural movement. For the pass, the typical motivation is squaring the deck. That is, to make it look invisible you need to make it look like you are just squaring the deck. A second principle is that sleights should be done on an off-beat when attention is not centered on the deck. Again, using squaring of the cards as an example, you are pulling the deck closer to you after a card is reinserted (what is referred to as an "in-trainsit" motion), there is a reason for your right hand to touch the deck (providing "motivation") and the spectator's attention is focused elsewhere because you appear to be doing nothing important (your eyes can't be on what you are doing and you have to behave as if you are just squaring the cards) and because you direct their attention elsewhere with your presentation ("misdirection" or more accurate "deliberate direction" of their attention to something else). Directing attention could be as easy as asking someone other then the spectator "if he forgets his card, you will remember it?" or simply going into your presentation of the effect, treating the selection and return of the card as unimportant preliminary steps.

Strong magic puts a distance in time between a sleight and the reveal of effect of the sleight. Although your pass works nicely for the color change and I know you have to reveal the card after practicing the pass to show it was done right, in performance you want the pass to occur well before the reveal. Older magicians have a joke where a younger magician comes up to them and asks "do you want to see my pass?" and the older magician says with a smile "No." The joke isn't that the older magician is being rude but that a pass shouldn't be able to be seen based on both technique and the design of the effect.

Your motions indicate that you did "something" and often a spectator knowing you did "something" is enough for them to think they know how you did what you did. That works if your presentation is "and I'll give the deck a shake and look what happens" but not in circumstances where you want the pass to be invisible. From a technical standpoint, there is too much movement in your hands and I can see the break between packets. The pass should be able to be performed entirely with the left hand with the right hand only supporting the lower packet as it moves from the right side of the deck to the left and back to the right in a squaring motion.

Also, the video is filmed at a bad angle to assess how invisible your pass is. Very few spectators will be watching your magic by leaning in over your hands and watching from above. I suspect a front view of your pass will show the movement of the deck because the lifting up of the deck will show what is happening underneath. Different types of passes work well for different angles (you standing / audience standing, you sitting / audience sitting, you standing / audience sitting, people in front, people on left side, people on right side, etc.).

What sources are you learning from? I tend to think that a lot of passes taught on Youtube tend to use unnatural movements and film from unrealistic angles. If you don't have Jason England's video, get it. It is worth learning from someone who is doing it properly.
 
Jan 8, 2017
2
0
Welcome to magic and the forums. I think you are doing really great for two weeks.

Thanks! :)

As you learn card magic, the one principle is that the movement for a sleight should reflect a natural movement. For the pass, the typical motivation is squaring the deck. That is, to make it look invisible you need to make it look like you are just squaring the deck. A second principle is that sleights should be done on an off-beat when attention is not centered on the deck. Again, using squaring of the cards as an example, you are pulling the deck closer to you after a card is reinserted (what is referred to as an "in-trainsit" motion), there is a reason for your right hand to touch the deck (providing "motivation") and the spectator's attention is focused elsewhere because you appear to be doing nothing important (your eyes can't be on what you are doing and you have to behave as if you are just squaring the cards) and because you direct their attention elsewhere with your presentation ("misdirection" or more accurate "deliberate direction" of their attention to something else). Directing attention could be as easy as asking someone other then the spectator "if he forgets his card, you will remember it?" or simply going into your presentation of the effect, treating the selection and return of the card as unimportant preliminary steps.

Interesting. I haven't even thought about my presentation, misdirection, or anything like that to also "hide" the pass (or any sleight) because I figured I should learn the moves before even thinking about performing. The more I get into magic the more I'm learning sleights are only half the battle. If even half, presentation might mean more.

Strong magic puts a distance in time between a sleight and the reveal of effect of the sleight. Although your pass works nicely for the color change and I know you have to reveal the card after practicing the pass to show it was done right, in performance you want the pass to occur well before the reveal. Older magicians have a joke where a younger magician comes up to them and asks "do you want to see my pass?" and the older magician says with a smile "No." The joke isn't that the older magician is being rude but that a pass shouldn't be able to be seen based on both technique and the design of the effect.

LOL.

Your motions indicate that you did "something" and often a spectator knowing you did "something" is enough for them to think they know how you did what you did. That works if your presentation is "and I'll give the deck a shake and look what happens" but not in circumstances where you want the pass to be invisible. From a technical standpoint, there is too much movement in your hands and I can see the break between packets. The pass should be able to be performed entirely with the left hand with the right hand only supporting the lower packet as it moves from the right side of the deck to the left and back to the right in a squaring motion.

Yeah I thought that the movement in my hands were way too violent to look natural at all. The shake I'm doing in my pass as a cover is mostly to hide the top packet when it slides across before going under. I don't know if it's speed I'm lacking, a more proper cover or what, but I can't seem to hide that well at all.

Also, the video is filmed at a bad angle to assess how invisible your pass is. Very few spectators will be watching your magic by leaning in over your hands and watching from above. I suspect a front view of your pass will show the movement of the deck because the lifting up of the deck will show what is happening underneath. Different types of passes work well for different angles (you standing / audience standing, you sitting / audience sitting, you standing / audience sitting, people in front, people on left side, people on right side, etc.).

I only have my iPhone, which I can only lay at the edge of a table to film. For the purpose of my thread, that was the best I could do. I mostly practice in mirrors though and on my girlfriend lol.

What sources are you learning from? I tend to think that a lot of passes taught on Youtube tend to use unnatural movements and film from unrealistic angles. If you don't have Jason England's video, get it. It is worth learning from someone who is doing it properly.

I do not have Jason England's video. I've slow mo'd it many times, but perhaps I'll purchase it if you think I can learn something from him that I'm not already getting from Alex Pandrea. I have the one from Alex Pandrea on the brick/jiggle pass. I thought I had an understanding of what he is doing, but I can't seem to get it as good as his. I'm not surprised though, he is very experienced. Thanks for all the help though. You were very informative. I think I will purchase Jason England's video and just practice way more.
 
Apr 19, 2015
131
118
32
Florence, Italy
There are several points you can do to improve your pass, and all of them are acquired to experience. As already stated, the pass isn't a beginner move, and should be tackled only later on, when you have a better understanding of the mechanics of manipulating cards. It's the same thing as going to the gym: after 2 weeks you don't even dream to lift the really heavy weight, and in magic it's the same thing.
Don't feel the need to rush, take in mind that training the pass requires time, i've trained mine for about 7 or 8 years and i sometimes still find out by myself little subtleties that help me improve my technique.
One last thing: there is no such thing as an invisible pass. There are people who do it really really well, but... invisible? That is even not required.
You're looking for the pass to be imperceptible!
 
Aug 4, 2014
2
1
You have received excellent replies to your questions. The only other suggestion would be picking up a Derrick Dingle Video and even his book published by Richard Kaufman which may be out of print. Dingle had the closes thing to an invisible pass I have ever seen. Richard also had some work on the shift. There's always Vernon.
One thing I did notice was the gap on the left side of the deck. There should not be a gap, that is your hinge point. the right side should have the gap due to the pinky inserted into
Good luck
 
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Apr 26, 2016
65
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What these guys are saying is dead on. I've been doing magic for about 14 years now, and only recently (and by that I mean in the last few years) did I consider my performance. A pass should be one of those, and I love this term, "maintenance moves". It does its job, but nobody sees it. As an addition to that, learning how to be deceptive and get people to trust you should be at the forefront of your mind. You would be absolutely amazed at some of the things you can get away with once you have people's trust, and they aren't paying attention. It can make all the difference, and in the case of some tricks, make or break the effect.

I would recommend looking for some other moves to supplement your pass. For example, if you want to get a good color change, I would suggest the very classic Erdnase change. It's fluid if done correctly, and is a lot simpler to do than a pass. If that one doesn't suit your fancy, there are tons of other options. With just a little searching, you can find whatever you want to suit your style.

But going back to the subject of your pass, I would say that you are doing pretty darned good for just two weeks into magic. I would say that you need to watch that other side of the deck just a little, and maybe consider adding a 'touch-up' move at the end, such as a square, or a jiggle, a riffle, something to cover the move, and make it logical that your right hand was touching the deck. You should only have the one opening, on the side with the pinkie finger, because the opening on the hinge can be a dead giveaway.
 
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Jan 11, 2017
7
4
There are people who do it really really well, but... invisible? That is even not required.
You're looking for the pass to be imperceptible!
What these guys are saying is dead on. I've been doing magic for about 14 years now, and only recently (and by that I mean in the last few years) did I consider my performance. A pass should be one of those, and I love this term, "maintenance moves". It does its job, but nobody sees it. As an addition to that, learning how to be deceptive and get people to trust you should be at the forefront of your mind. You would be absolutely amazed at some of the things you can get away with once you have people's trust, and they aren't paying attention. It can make all the difference, and in the case of some tricks, make or break the effect.

I would recommend looking for some other moves to supplement your pass. For example, if you want to get a good color change, I would suggest the very classic Erdnase change. It's fluid if done correctly, and is a lot simpler to do than a pass. If that one doesn't suit your fancy, there are tons of other options. With just a little searching, you can find whatever you want to suit your style.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! It's been really helpful seriously. I have been working on my patter and misdirection way more in the last week. Unfortunately my test dummy (my girlfriend) doesn't take her eyes away from my hands so I've had to use strangers at school and I get nervous as hell. Any tips?

And yeah the classic pass color change was just for practice to see how well I could do it. I've been practicing Erdnase's Color Change a lot. Perhaps I can get some feedback on that too? Maybe some tips? I tend to pull more than one card out from under some what often. I don't really know why sometimes it does that and other times it doesn't.

 

JPS

Dec 21, 2016
75
43
I've been practicing Erdnase's Color Change a lot. Perhaps I can get some feedback on that too? Maybe some tips? I tend to pull more than one card out from under some what often. I don't really know why sometimes it does that and other times it doesn't.


My main suggestion if any would be to use a shake change *Or whatever people like to call it now* instead.
Its far easier and in my opinion more visual.


Heres a tutorial for a more natural double lift, dont worry about the pinky count just riffle your cards to get a break.

However as for your erdnase; the change itself is fine. As a stylistic thing: try placing the palmed card totally over the card you're changing so you cant see it, then opening your fingers like a window to reveal the change. In my opinion i find that looks more visual.

I think with more practice you'll start to consistently pull only one card, but it really isn't that bad from what i saw in the video.

When you get a bit more comfortable with the cards i highly suggest switching out your erdnase change for a cardini
 
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Feb 18, 2015
145
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First of all, great work for 1 month of magic... I was not this good during my first month, or even 2nd month. You are pulling multiple cards because your hand that is "peeling" off the card is too tight probably. Try relaxing your hand ( This is one mistake you are making when I see you perform. Relax your hands, and make it elegant, peaceful, and halfway messy rather than stiff and too orderly).
Some tips on the erdnase color change: don't make it look like your stealing something, but rather you are waving the deck. Also, you can do a sideways steal (Check out the Hurricane Change in the Trapdoor Magazine) to make it more natural. Your finish (the fingers coming together) is a great ending. Nice work.
 
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Feb 18, 2015
145
96
My main suggestion if any would be to use a shake change *Or whatever people like to call it now* instead.
Its far easier and in my opinion more visual.


Heres a tutorial for a more natural double lift, dont worry about the pinky count just riffle your cards to get a break.

However as for your erdnase; the change itself is fine. As a stylistic thing: try placing the palmed card totally over the card you're changing so you cant see it, then opening your fingers like a window to reveal the change. In my opinion i find that looks more visual.

I think with more practice you'll start to consistently pull only one card, but it really isn't that bad from what i saw in the video.

When you get a bit more comfortable with the cards i highly suggest switching out your erdnase change for a cardini
I highly disagree with jake on throwing away the erdnase change... the cardini, though visual, is very angle sensitive. The shake change is a nice alternative, but do not throw it out.
I agree with making the double lift more natural. Like I said, just relax. TheRussianGenius does not have a great tutorial for the double lift (Though he does it well, he does not teach it to make it natural).
Also, jake: the stylistic thing you just said is exactly what Christian is doing, but the more advanced way... I do not think you have read The Expert At The Card Table yet, only youtube videos :/.
 
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JPS

Dec 21, 2016
75
43
Also, jake: the stylistic thing you just said is exactly what Christian is doing, but the more advanced way... I do not think you have read The Expert At The Card Table yet, only youtube videos :/.

Ouch, Im feeling rather insulted.
Keep in mind hes just starting out, i dont think that version of the change is as easy and i thought maybe trying a different handling would help him get the mechanics down.

Also, yes. Ive read Erdnase
 
Jan 11, 2017
7
4
First of all, great work for 1 month of magic... I was not this good during my first month, or even 2nd month. You are pulling multiple cards because your hand that is "peeling" off the card is too tight probably. Try relaxing your hand ( This is one mistake you are making when I see you perform. Relax your hands, and make it elegant, peaceful, and halfway messy rather than stiff and too orderly).
Thanks! Ohh okay. I've tried that and I think it is working a lot better now. Also I let the deck rest(?) I guess you could say and for whatever reason it has become less sticky. That also helps.
Some tips on the erdnase color change: don't make it look like your stealing something, but rather you are waving the deck. Also, you can do a sideways steal (Check out the Hurricane Change in the Trapdoor Magazine) to make it more natural. Your finish (the fingers coming together) is a great ending. Nice work.
However as for your erdnase; the change itself is fine. As a stylistic thing: try placing the palmed card totally over the card you're changing so you cant see it, then opening your fingers like a window to reveal the change. In my opinion i find that looks more visual.
@kolebear Not sure what you mean by wave the deck, but I tried stealing it a little more diagonally and wave my hand more in this video. I looked up the Hurricane Change in Trapdoor Magazine. Apparently it's in issue 42, but I don't know how to go about finding it. Perhaps I didn't look hard enough though. I've watched videos on it, but can't figure out the mechanics behind it. I'm too noob.
@jakepetrakos I tried the window thing the third time I did it in this video. Not sure if that is what you meant.
 
Apr 26, 2016
65
26
You are really putting your heart into this, and that makes me so very happy! I'll say that your double lift has improved greatly, as well as the Erdnase being much smoother with the side steal.
 
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