Need Pocket Management Advice

Dec 7, 2016
61
12
Hey Magicians. ♠️

So about pocket management. How do you carry your extras? I'm really on about business cards and extra playing cards, such as duplicated and other gimmicked playing cards. For me, I'm having throuble finding a good spot to bring my business cards. I only had 15 with me recently. I tried storing them in my wallet, then my front pocket. But both places had made them into a bent round shape. That's surly something I'm right in being not happy about? It's not professional looking. When I was buying my business carss online. It had an offer to get a strong business card case holder with it. Was I wrong not to get that? That being said. I've only found that bringing an empty playing cards box and carrying my business cards in that, along with other important gimmicked cards. But carrying two playing cards boxes around is a pain. I'm talking about magicians who would be wearing jeans. And not if any other pockets in jacket etc. David Blaine style for example. Any creative ideas please? Or maybe I have to step aside more often and reload.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
I carry business cards in a separate card, designed for business cards. It goes in my left front jeans pocket, usually. I don't actually hand many out, though. I generally only give someone a business card if they ask for it. Otherwise you're going to give a lot away that will just end up in the garbage.
 
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Dec 7, 2016
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I carry business cards in a separate card, designed for business cards. It goes in my left front jeans pocket, usually. I don't actually hand many out, though. I generally only give someone a business card if they ask for it. Otherwise you're going to give a lot away that will just end up in the garbage.

I'm starting out and asking anyone I perform to if they would mind leaving me a small review on my facebook page about what they thought about my magic. I'm a beginner. So I'm not in a position to have my contact number to book me yet. So I'm currently trying to get my name out there and my vision on the reviews. Well that would look great for me when I do start working as a paid magician and to get a paid gig. What's your thoughts on going into bars/pubs doing magic. Not under the owners premission. But just freely going in, table hopping to get more experience? Or heck. I could just let the manger or owner know I'll be doing it. It's free after all.
 

DominusDolorum

Elite Member
Jul 15, 2013
893
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What's your thoughts on going into bars/pubs doing magic. Not under the owners premission. But just freely going in, table hopping to get more experience? Or heck. I could just let the manger or owner know I'll be doing it. It's free after all.
You could be hurting the business of working professionals in your area in you're just giving it away for free. Although for like an hour or so you're probably not doing any harm. I've gone up to people in bars to perform and no one's said anything, but only a few tables a night every so often.
 
Dec 7, 2016
61
12
You could be hurting the business of working professionals in your area in you're just giving it away for free. Although for like an hour or so you're probably not doing any harm. I've gone up to people in bars to perform and no one's said anything, but only a few tables a night every so often.

I wouldn't intend to get in any way of a working magician. Where I'm from, there next to none. So I don't have to worry about other magicians. And yeah. Just like an hour at the tops would be great. Get in and out.
 
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DominusDolorum

Elite Member
Jul 15, 2013
893
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Canada
I wouldn't intend to get in any way of a working magician. Where I'm from, there next to none. So I don't have to worry about other magicians. And yeah. Just like an hour at the tops would be great. Get in and out.
Awesome stuff. Sounds like you're good to go. Also I don't use business cards, but if I did I would use them for an "out to lunch" type of trick. Like Dan Harlans Professors Nightmare on business cards.
 
Mar 2, 2016
241
141
It's strikes me as odd that Theory 11 don't do some sort of business card holder.

Brass, covered with high quality leather, embossed with the Theory 11 logo, maybe a secret little compartment that says 'Cerca Trova' on the inside to keep your flash paper safe inside. Something with the elegance and class of Theory 11 products, but the nice little touches that is found in a lot of their products too.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
Ok. We're straying into the business side of things here and that's a whole separate can of worms. I'll go ahead and apologize ahead of time if I seem harsh - but business is harsh, and that's just how it is.

First off - Facebook means next to nothing in a business sense. Well, slightly above nothing. A booker or party planner might look to see how many people like your page, and if that number is really high, that's a good thing. But the numbers for Facebook have little to no relation to reality. You might get 100 people to say they are going to attend your performance and only have 5 show up. You may have 5 people say they are going to attend and have 100 show up. The number of people on the page saying they like your stuff rarely has any real relation to who actually shows up - and that's the number that the people who hire you care about.

If your business cards don't have your contact number on them, they are kind of worthless.

So, here's the deal with business cards. They're a paper campaign. Just like sending post cards to everyone in a certain ZIP code - they are a sort of shotgun blast hoping that someone remembers you and decides that you're the solution to their entertainment problem. But paper campaigns, statistically, have about a 1% return rate. Which means if you give 100 business cards, you can assume you'll get 1 inquiry to your services. Note: Inquiry, not booking. However, if your business card is well designed (ie: it reminds people of exactly who you are) and it has your proper contact information, that percentage changes dramatically.

I would never go into a bar and work tables for free. For one, you can't be certain the owners want someone to do that. I know, I know, "We're providing free entertainment! This can do nothing but help them!" No. Stop it. Any good bar will have a distinct idea of what they want their bar to be. If you come along shoving cards into people's faces, you may not be in line with what they, aesthetically, want their bar to be. That means if you just walk in and start doing tricks you could be burning that bridge to the ground before you even develop the most remote of business relationships with that establishment.

You absolutely, 100%, need to talk to the owners or managers before trying to be an entertainer there, to prevent them hating you. And keep in mind, business owners in a certain area all talk to each other. If you piss off one, you are raising red flags to anyone they talk to, too.

If you want to perform at a bar, then take a group of your friends and perform for them. If someone else expresses interest in what you're doing you can try to do some stuff for them. Understand that you might actually get kicked out for this.

Pricing! If you go to a bar, and you perform for free, and they like that you're doing that - what's their motivation to ever pay you? If you say, "Ok I'll keep doing this if you pay me X$", then they can just say, "Well, no. We were doing just fine without you, thanks." Done. Not only that, if you go out and perform for some time for free, you create the reputation for being a free performer. It's very difficult to raise your price from free. Most likely you will have to ditch all of your existing places to perform and find all new ones who may be willing to pay you. You may get some patrons of the bar who think you'd be good for a party - but when they sober up and actually look at what it costs to hire a magician, that becomes the real work. You have to convince them you are worth whatever you are charging.

If all you want is experience then arrange parties and perform there. That's largely what I did. It's super easy, "Hey guys, I put together a show. I'm going to throw a party in 3 weeks, we'll have BBQ, beer, and me and Kyle and Shawn are going to put on a show! It'll be great! You should come." Done. I've packed 60 people into a one-bedroom apartment for this kind of thing.

In regards to undercutting others: You said there's very few professional magicians in your area. That's not relevant, really. You have to think about both the magic world as a whole, and also your future prospects. When I lived in Fresno it was full of magicians. Tons. There were a lot of guys who would do a birthday party for $100, and try to pack on 4 in a day. I was one of the most expensive performers in the area, and I lost a lot of gigs because they didn't want to pay my fees. They thought we were all interchangeable (because most of them were), and simply went by price. The people who saw me perform live knew what I was offering was not the same, cookie-cutter, birthday-clown magician that most people were offering and paid the fees I requested, because they knew they couldn't get this show anywhere else.

If you establish a reputation as someone who performs free, or cheap, you will have to break that reputation before you have any chance of making real money at this. Furthermore, anyone else who comes along will be fighting your established price point to book a gig as well, even if you'd never imagine trying to be booked for that gig.
 
Dec 7, 2016
61
12
It's strikes me as odd that Theory 11 don't do some sort of business card holder.

Brass, covered with high quality leather, embossed with the Theory 11 logo, maybe a secret little compartment that says 'Cerca Trova' on the inside to keep your flash paper safe inside. Something with the elegance and class of Theory 11 products, but the nice little touches that is found in a lot of their products too.
Hi David.

I feel the same also. I`ve not actually looked to see if they have any. But I like your idea of a one. Thank you for the reply.
 
Dec 7, 2016
61
12
Ok. We're straying into the business side of things here and that's a whole separate can of worms. I'll go ahead and apologize ahead of time if I seem harsh - but business is harsh, and that's just how it is.

First off - Facebook means next to nothing in a business sense. Well, slightly above nothing. A booker or party planner might look to see how many people like your page, and if that number is really high, that's a good thing. But the numbers for Facebook have little to no relation to reality. You might get 100 people to say they are going to attend your performance and only have 5 show up. You may have 5 people say they are going to attend and have 100 show up. The number of people on the page saying they like your stuff rarely has any real relation to who actually shows up - and that's the number that the people who hire you care about.

If your business cards don't have your contact number on them, they are kind of worthless.

So, here's the deal with business cards. They're a paper campaign. Just like sending post cards to everyone in a certain ZIP code - they are a sort of shotgun blast hoping that someone remembers you and decides that you're the solution to their entertainment problem. But paper campaigns, statistically, have about a 1% return rate. Which means if you give 100 business cards, you can assume you'll get 1 inquiry to your services. Note: Inquiry, not booking. However, if your business card is well designed (ie: it reminds people of exactly who you are) and it has your proper contact information, that percentage changes dramatically.

I would never go into a bar and work tables for free. For one, you can't be certain the owners want someone to do that. I know, I know, "We're providing free entertainment! This can do nothing but help them!" No. Stop it. Any good bar will have a distinct idea of what they want their bar to be. If you come along shoving cards into people's faces, you may not be in line with what they, aesthetically, want their bar to be. That means if you just walk in and start doing tricks you could be burning that bridge to the ground before you even develop the most remote of business relationships with that establishment.

You absolutely, 100%, need to talk to the owners or managers before trying to be an entertainer there, to prevent them hating you. And keep in mind, business owners in a certain area all talk to each other. If you piss off one, you are raising red flags to anyone they talk to, too.

If you want to perform at a bar, then take a group of your friends and perform for them. If someone else expresses interest in what you're doing you can try to do some stuff for them. Understand that you might actually get kicked out for this.

Pricing! If you go to a bar, and you perform for free, and they like that you're doing that - what's their motivation to ever pay you? If you say, "Ok I'll keep doing this if you pay me X$", then they can just say, "Well, no. We were doing just fine without you, thanks." Done. Not only that, if you go out and perform for some time for free, you create the reputation for being a free performer. It's very difficult to raise your price from free. Most likely you will have to ditch all of your existing places to perform and find all new ones who may be willing to pay you. You may get some patrons of the bar who think you'd be good for a party - but when they sober up and actually look at what it costs to hire a magician, that becomes the real work. You have to convince them you are worth whatever you are charging.

If all you want is experience then arrange parties and perform there. That's largely what I did. It's super easy, "Hey guys, I put together a show. I'm going to throw a party in 3 weeks, we'll have BBQ, beer, and me and Kyle and Shawn are going to put on a show! It'll be great! You should come." Done. I've packed 60 people into a one-bedroom apartment for this kind of thing.

In regards to undercutting others: You said there's very few professional magicians in your area. That's not relevant, really. You have to think about both the magic world as a whole, and also your future prospects. When I lived in Fresno it was full of magicians. Tons. There were a lot of guys who would do a birthday party for $100, and try to pack on 4 in a day. I was one of the most expensive performers in the area, and I lost a lot of gigs because they didn't want to pay my fees. They thought we were all interchangeable (because most of them were), and simply went by price. The people who saw me perform live knew what I was offering was not the same, cookie-cutter, birthday-clown magician that most people were offering and paid the fees I requested, because they knew they couldn't get this show anywhere else.

If you establish a reputation as someone who performs free, or cheap, you will have to break that reputation before you have any chance of making real money at this. Furthermore, anyone else who comes along will be fighting your established price point to book a gig as well, even if you'd never imagine trying to be booked for that gig.

Hi Christopher.

You didn`t sound harsh. You`ve once again giving me a better prospective on how I should present myself. I wont go out performing for free in pub/bars like I had previously said and will redo a better business card. I will although try that idea of arranging a party. Getting the experience is what sparked this whole free performances and likes on Facebook/Reviews. Which i`m kinda embarrassed about it right now after reading your reply.

What other things would you do to get experience?, if you could not get people to come to a party. I could invite my family. But theses are the people that have seen it already. I don`t really have any friends. Well I don`t. Any that i do have, is through online that is across the other side of the world basically.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
I performed for friends for a while, but mostly I got my chops up and started working where I could. My first "gigs" were busking at farmers market, which was conveniently just across the street from where I lived at the time. I am a firm believer that everyone should busk in the beginning for a little while. It takes away the ego, and teaches you to write a clean, tight script. Otherwise your crowd walks away in the middle of your routines.

I did parties, either throwing them myself or going to other people's parties and would do a few tricks.

I also worked an event called Art Hop pretty often - that was a mix of fire performance, circus, and magic, depending on the month.

Ultimately, when you're just starting out you just take what opportunities are there - but you want to do it intelligently. Build bridges for future gigs, and build relationships with the people in your area who are involved with the entertainment world. That means any other performers, venue owners, event organizers, theaters, etc. I don't know where you're located so I can't really give any specific advice. Paul Prater is big on working with the chamber of commerce and/or the board of tourism.

It sounds like maybe you're thinking walk around is your goal, and for that my most common recommendation is The Approach by Jamie Grant: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3753n - It's basically a workbook on becoming a paid walk around magician.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,966
1,101
Utah
I always have a jacket on for any of my gigs. It is awkward enough to approach a table in a suit, where you look a little different than everyone else. If you perform in a t-shirt I'd worry about being taken seriously at a gig. It's different if you are just hanging out but even David Blaine wears a jacket when he is hired for an event and he has said that he always carries 2 decks of cards with him.


I always wear a suit at gigs. My buisness cards always go in my outside breast pocket of my jacket. I keep an unboxed deck in my left jacket pocket and two other decks in my inside jacket pockets.

If you really don't want any of that then take a look at Joshua Jay's card holder http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1422
 
Dec 7, 2016
61
12
I always have a jacket on for any of my gigs. It is awkward enough to approach a table in a suit, where you look a little different than everyone else. If you perform in a t-shirt I'd worry about being taken seriously at a gig. It's different if you are just hanging out but even David Blaine wears a jacket when he is hired for an event and he has said that he always carries 2 decks of cards with him.


I always wear a suit at gigs. My buisness cards always go in my outside breast pocket of my jacket. I keep an unboxed deck in my left jacket pocket and two other decks in my inside jacket pockets.

If you really don't want any of that then take a look at Joshua Jay's card holder http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1422

Hi Josh. Thank you for your reply. I guess i was just referring to very casual wear like jeans and a t-shirt for the next while as I know I wont have any professional gigs that would really require me to wear a jacket, (suit). I`m just starting out. David Blaine is my idol. I`ve never heard him talk much about what he brings or the actual things he does, such a prep. Hearing that he does bring two decks makes me feel better. I`m learning that there`s so much i don`t know yet. Thanks again and for the recommendation on the card holder.
 
Dec 7, 2016
61
12
I performed for friends for a while, but mostly I got my chops up and started working where I could. My first "gigs" were busking at farmers market, which was conveniently just across the street from where I lived at the time. I am a firm believer that everyone should busk in the beginning for a little while. It takes away the ego, and teaches you to write a clean, tight script. Otherwise your crowd walks away in the middle of your routines.

I did parties, either throwing them myself or going to other people's parties and would do a few tricks.

I also worked an event called Art Hop pretty often - that was a mix of fire performance, circus, and magic, depending on the month.

Ultimately, when you're just starting out you just take what opportunities are there - but you want to do it intelligently. Build bridges for future gigs, and build relationships with the people in your area who are involved with the entertainment world. That means any other performers, venue owners, event organizers, theaters, etc. I don't know where you're located so I can't really give any specific advice. Paul Prater is big on working with the chamber of commerce and/or the board of tourism.

It sounds like maybe you're thinking walk around is your goal, and for that my most common recommendation is The Approach by Jamie Grant: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3753n - It's basically a workbook on becoming a paid walk around magician.
Thanks you Christopher. I`ve checked out that book just now. I read through the chapters and sounds like what I need. I`m very eager to read it. But I can only put it into my wish list for now until I save a bit. :)
 

ProAma

Elite Member
Jun 13, 2013
214
103
You could be hurting the business of working professionals in your area in you're just giving it away for free. Although for like an hour or so you're probably not doing any harm. I've gone up to people in bars to perform and no one's said anything, but only a few tables a night every so often.
there are plenty of things to go around. Magicians can't steal gigs lol
 

ProAma

Elite Member
Jun 13, 2013
214
103
Seems like many people on this thread don't have good pocket management. Graham you need to experiment and only then will you find the best pocket management.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
there are plenty of things to go around. Magicians can't steal gigs lol

For one, yes they can. All it takes is a jerk of a magician and an unscrupulous event booker. I've seen guys get gigs sniped from under them.

For two, even if someone is not stealing a gig, that doesn't mean they aren't making it significantly harder to get appropriate fees for gigs. That was a major issue in Fresno. There were so many performers that were willing to work so cheap, that laymen had no concept of what a performance was worth. The circus/fire troupe I was a part of had someone try to steal a gig from us by offering $50 for 3 hours of constant fire performance. Furthermore, talented performers were harassed when they charged fees to teach new performers - not by the potential students, but by other performers/instructors who didn't think anyone should charge.

You could say that anyone who wants to charge more should be able to do so anyway - and you can, if you're already established or can clearly offer a value to do so. But what happens in practice is that people who live in that area decide that entertainment is about whoever charges the least, and it makes it impossible to get established enough to make anything close to a living in that area with entertainment.
 
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ProAma

Elite Member
Jun 13, 2013
214
103
For one, yes they can. All it takes is a jerk of a magician and an unscrupulous event booker. I've seen guys get gigs sniped from under them.

For two, even if someone is not stealing a gig, that doesn't mean they aren't making it significantly harder to get appropriate fees for gigs. That was a major issue in Fresno. There were so many performers that were willing to work so cheap, that laymen had no concept of what a performance was worth. The circus/fire troupe I was a part of had someone try to steal a gig from us by offering $50 for 3 hours of constant fire performance. Furthermore, talented performers were harassed when they charged fees to teach new performers - not by the potential students, but by other performers/instructors who didn't think anyone should charge.

You could say that anyone who wants to charge more should be able to do so anyway - and you can, if you're already established or can clearly offer a value to do so. But what happens in practice is that people who live in that area decide that entertainment is about whoever charges the least, and it makes it impossible to get established enough to make anything close to a living in that area with entertainment.
Have you listened to businessmen like Kostya Kimlat? I am also a businessman and there are plenty of things to go around. You make the pie bigger. You can't steal gigs.
 
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