Cipher

Jan 26, 2017
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So from what I've seen - E is really putting the hype on it. Personally, it looks like a great effect, but I feel like people can guess the method (or rather - a method). If it is what I think it is, I'm not sure it's really that good of an effect - it seems very obvious to me from a spectators point of view, not a magicians. Will someone who has bought it tell me how their experience has been? Is E just over hyping it?


Furthermore Is it a better buy than the Akkelian Envelopes Spidey released with TXI today? I personally think that (from the trailers) the Envelopes look like a better overall tool - Cipher looks like 1st guess cold reading at first glance.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Don't confuse the method with the presentation. Cipher is an app that allows you to gather a variety of information in a streamlined way. The exact phrasing of how you gather that information, as well as what you do with it, is what will determine how powerful the performance is as well as how back-traceable it is.

If you have them do the maths, and then say, "Your birth day is suchandsuch, your pin is blah, your star sign is suchandusch, and if you dial that number you'll get my phone," Then yeah, it's gonna be flat and people are going to know that the maths had something to do with it.

But look at the trailer - in one reasonable (in the context of his performance) process he is able to reveal their birthday, their star sign, their PIN code, and force a number on them. With that amount of information I could probably hold an audience for about 20-25 minutes and have them lining up for personal readings afterward.

If you don't know how you could use that information effectively - then it's probably best to pass on this one.

I can't give you a comparison to the envelopes because T11's site basically doesn't function for me outside of the forums.
 
Jun 18, 2017
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Lloyd posted an uncut video of the whole process over at the Cafe. I was sold after that but, as above, it's all about the presentation. It's overhyped to hell but it sounds solid.

I prefer things a bit more old school so it probably won't be going into my routine, but I like the idea.
 
Jan 26, 2017
2,173
1,338
23
Virginia
Don't confuse the method with the presentation. Cipher is an app that allows you to gather a variety of information in a streamlined way. The exact phrasing of how you gather that information, as well as what you do with it, is what will determine how powerful the performance is as well as how back-traceable it is.

If you have them do the maths, and then say, "Your birth day is suchandsuch, your pin is blah, your star sign is suchandusch, and if you dial that number you'll get my phone," Then yeah, it's gonna be flat and people are going to know that the maths had something to do with it.

But look at the trailer - in one reasonable (in the context of his performance) process he is able to reveal their birthday, their star sign, their PIN code, and force a number on them. With that amount of information I could probably hold an audience for about 20-25 minutes and have them lining up for personal readings afterward.

If you don't know how you could use that information effectively - then it's probably best to pass on this one.

Probably best for me to pass it up then. I could never play around with gaining information. I could gain it, but don't always know how to reveal it.

Besides, its not available for android yet :p
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Why is this "over hyped to hell" but every other product, which they released in the same way, not?

We did a teaser, day or two later we released the product. Then we put up a video of a full performance, mostly because a lot of people were asking for it. So, total hype items on this one: Teaser video, one or two posts on FB, newsletter, and I think they sent out the text notice, and then another email to show the full performance video.

All the "hype" from this one is coming from people using it, and loving it. It's a great product and though I can't use it yet (Android myself) I can recognize that. This will probably be the only app I ever actually use for performances.
 
Jun 18, 2017
104
77
"Cipher is the best effect on the market right now!"

"Officially THE Most Talked About Magic Release Of 2017"

Between Illusionist promotional emails and daily emails from Penguin I must've missed a few hundred of the best tricks ever made this year alone.

It's not a dig at this specifically, it's just it's hard to see the quality of new tricks sometimes with all the hyperbole.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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So you're just calling all tricks over hyped to hell?

Note, the first one is a quote from a customer. While I don't know if it's the most talked about, but it's certainly made a splash. It is metaphorically flying off the shelf, and currently has 27 5 star reviews.
 
Jan 26, 2017
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I only felt liked it was hyped a lot - not necessarily over hyped. When you release a trailer without showing a performance and start calling it the best effect... that stuff just pisses me off. Now, E did release a few performances, but at the same time, I just had a "bad taste" in my mouth from the 2 emails and initial trailer. I was just seeing if anyone else felt this way. O and the Emails were pretty annoying, but I can't blame em if those are real review.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
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Ok.

Well, here's how I see it - positive reviews are flooding in. It's flying off the shelf, so to speak, and it's probably the only app I'm actually willing to use in a performance (once they get the Android version up and running). Beyond that, it's really up to you.

I did get a chance to see the envelope trailer and that does look solid. It can't really be compared to Cipher, though - it's not the same kind of thing other than being a peek of some kind of information. The routine you'd do with the envelopes is going to be completely different to the routine you do with Cipher - even if you're coming up with your own. They're just different kinds of things. That being said, I'm intrigued by Spidey's work and I'll be looking for reviews on them to see if they can do something I've been wanting to do for some time.
 
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Josh Mickelson

Elite Member
Apr 26, 2016
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Probably best for me to pass it up then. I could never play around with gaining information. I could gain it, but don't always know how to reveal it.

dude.
Just read their mind or do some sort of cold reading. One easy idea have them say words (i.e. for their passcode ask them to say 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) and "react" to their body behavior or whatever. Then, you can "make it harder" by having you say the words, not them, and then, just narrow it down even further apparently without having either of you say anything. It's all about acting. That's probably one of the easiest ways to reveal info.

Something cheeky you can do w/ this app is get the information now - and save it for a later time. It can be pretty great - just make a note w/ all the information you get and keep it for later.

But, if it's not your style and you don't know how to reveal it, you don't need to get it. Only use the tricks that work for you - don't try to force yourself to like/use something.
 
Jan 26, 2017
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dude.
Just read their mind or do some sort of cold reading. One easy idea have them say words (i.e. for their passcode ask them to say 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) and "react" to their body behavior or whatever. Then, you can "make it harder" by having you say the words, not them, and then, just narrow it down even further apparently without having either of you say anything. It's all about acting. That's probably one of the easiest ways to reveal info.

Something cheeky you can do w/ this app is get the information now - and save it for a later time. It can be pretty great - just make a note w/ all the information you get and keep it for later.

But, if it's not your style and you don't know how to reveal it, you don't need to get it. Only use the tricks that work for you - don't try to force yourself to like/use something.
Yeah exactly my point. Its not my style, and I just don't personally like cold reading too much, so I don't think I should pick it up.
 
Apr 9, 2016
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I have to say that I do like Cipher, I use Android.

As mentioned above, this is really more about the approach, the patter, and about specifically effective time distraction to really deliver the goods so people buy what you're selling.

Not really my thing, but for $20 it was a nice buy to have the tool at hand always. To be honest, I won't use it that often. Seems to be more of a bar/party/gathering sort of thing than anything. Good ice breaker for the timeless art of meeting folks though.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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It's definitely powerful in a casual setting but I am seriously considering putting it into a new parlor show. I already work around connections and coincidences a lot, so this fits right into my style.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Hard to say. What it really comes down to is whether you are willing to work at it until you have a good presentation.

The workings of the app are simple. Anyone could do it, really. But it takes skill to create a story worth telling with the information it allows you to gather. A beginner can do that, but it generally takes more work for a beginner than an experienced performer.
 
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Jul 24, 2017
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Hard to say. What it really comes down to is whether you are willing to work at it until you have a good presentation.

The workings of the app are simple. Anyone could do it, really. But it takes skill to create a story worth telling with the information it allows you to gather. A beginner can do that, but it generally takes more work for a beginner than an experienced performer.

That's brilliant thank you for the reply, I think I will invest what seems a modest amount it what looks like a brilliant effect. I love to work on presentation and really believe its key to every performance.
 
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