Is coin magic one of the hardest?

[kingdamian1]

Is it just me or does coin magic appear significantly more hard than card magic or other colse up tricks? I mean, even in professional circles, advanced coin magic is MUCH rare compared to, say, card magic. Is this true? Do professionals have hard time with it too?

 

[Maaz Hasan]

Is it just me or does coin magic appear significantly more hard than card magic or other colse up tricks? I mean, even in professional circles, advanced coin magic is MUCH rare compared to, say, card magic. Is this true? Do professionals have hard time with it too?

It all depends on if you work on it or not. I'm sure Eric Jones and Daniel Madison both have different views on this question (not saying that they can't do stuff other that what we see them do, I'm just saying that one specializes in coins and one specializes in cards). At the same time, Daniel Garcia will have a completely different view than both of them, where as Derren Brown might have the exact opposite view.

I see coin magic a lot, I wouldn't say that it is exactly less popular than cards in the inner circles of magic. Sure, at the beginner, barely into it level, cards are the way a lot of people go, but as you progress through magic, more and more people also study Coins and Mentalism. In fact, a ton of people stop liking card magic when compared to coins and mentalism. It all depends on what they prefer.

There are basic card techniques that an expert professional who has only studied coin magic will have trouble with, and vice versa.

The processes for both are pretty different. Yes, both are magic, but if you try and work through and create a coin routine, the process itself is so different from making a card routine simply because of the different factors in each branch.

It's all subjective. Is one inherently harder than the other? I don't think so. It's whatever is more comfortable to each person. I personally find mentalism very difficult to work with due it's building process, where as some one find it easier to work with than card magic, for example. That person may find ring magic impossible, where as I like ring magic just as much as I like cards due to the process I take with it.

 

[kingdamian1]

It all depends on if you work on it or not. I'm sure Eric Jones and Daniel Madison both have different views on this question (not saying that they can't do stuff other that what we see them do, I'm just saying that one specializes in coins and one specializes in cards). At the same time, Daniel Garcia will have a completely different view than both of them, where as Derren Brown might have the exact opposite view.

I see coin magic a lot, I wouldn't say that it is exactly less popular than cards in the inner circles of magic. Sure, at the beginner, barely into it level, cards are the way a lot of people go, but as you progress through magic, more and more people also study Coins and Mentalism. In fact, a ton of people stop liking card magic when compared to coins and mentalism. It all depends on what they prefer.

There are basic card techniques that an expert professional who has only studied coin magic will have trouble with, and vice versa.

The processes for both are pretty different. Yes, both are magic, but if you try and work through and create a coin routine, the process itself is so different from making a card routine simply because of the different factors in each branch.

It's all subjective. Is one inherently harder than the other? I don't think so. It's whatever is more comfortable to each person. I personally find mentalism very difficult to work with due it's building process, where as some one find it easier to work with than card magic, for example. That person may find ring magic impossible, where as I like ring magic just as much as I like cards due to the process I take with it.

I get what you are saying...
But can you, for example, name any self working coin tricks? See coin magic needs WAY more professionalism than card magic... And even in TOP magicians, coin magic is a very hard skill to acquire. I'd love to do it... But it needs so much work and diligence lulz

 

[Maaz Hasan]

"Self-Working Coin Magic: 92 Fool Proof Tricks" is a book by Karl Fulves, who you should know is a huge person in magic. Same guy who did "Self-Working Mental Magic" and "Self-Working Card Tricks".

Bear in mind, these are without gimmicks.

There are a ton of easy to do hard hitting coin effects everywhere. Bobo also has them.

Where are you learning your coin magic from?

 

[RealityOne]

It really just requires the right material to learn from and practice. Eric Jones' Metal is a great place to start.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

It really just requires the right material to learn from and practice. Eric Jones' Metal is a great place to start.

I agree, even though I don't have it lol

Eric Jones clearly explains in the trailer that just learning these random coin moves isn't going to get you anywhere. It's confusing at first, and you don't know how 2 things might relate, but he goes over everything and it makes sense in the end. And seeing as it, along with one of Michael Ammar's DVD's are seen as the best videos to start with, it is definitely going to be worth it (it's on my buy list right now).

You can also work your way through Modern Coin Magic by Bobo, but it is a book with older wording after all, and metal will work you through the process of coin magic better.

Coin magic is a different beast from card magic. When you tackle coin magic like you do with cards, you only create obstacles for yourself.

 

[kingdamian1]

It really just requires the right material to learn from and practice. Eric Jones' Metal is a great place to start.

Bobo raises the same issues with coin magic. He states that coin magic requires WAY more grace than

 

[kingdamian1]

I agree, even though I don't have it lol

Eric Jones clearly explains in the trailer that just learning these random coin moves isn't going to get you anywhere. It's confusing at first, and you don't know how 2 things might relate, but he goes over everything and it makes sense in the end. And seeing as it, along with one of Michael Ammar's DVD's are seen as the best videos to start with, it is definitely going to be worth it (it's on my buy list right now).

You can also work your way through Modern Coin Magic by Bobo, but it is a book with older wording after all, and metal will work you through the process of coin magic better.

Coin magic is a different beast from card magic. When you tackle coin magic like you do with cards, you only create obstacles for yourself.

It is hard to create acts from coins... I'd love to master coin magic...

 

[Dockler]

It is hard to create acts from coins... I'd love to master coin magic...

I have that exact same sentiment when it comes to creating routines or patter with coins. You can't have someone pick a coin, any coin. You can't find their coin, because they don't have a coin. There isn't anything to make it personal, they are just watching you vanish, reappear, and change coins. And this is coming from someone who likes coin magic

 

[Maaz Hasan]

It is hard to create acts from coins... I'd love to master coin magic...

Again, it is all subjective.

It may be harder for you specifically, but it isn't that way for everyone.

Most probably, you are looking at it from the perspective of a cardician. Coin magic and Card magic are 2 separate things, with 2 separate learning processes, with 2 separate creative processes, and with 2 separate performances.

May I ask you where are you learning coin magic from, what have you studied thus far, where have you been studying magic from as a whole, and what books or program style DVDs (like metal) do you own currently?

 

[Maaz Hasan]

I have that exact same sentiment when it comes to creating routines or patter with coins. You can't have someone pick a coin, any coin. You can't find their coin, because they don't have a coin. There isn't anything to make it personal, they are just watching you vanish, reappear, and change coins. And this is coming from someone who likes coin magic

You are looking at it from the perspective card only magician. There is stuff that you can do only with cards that you can't do with coins. There are excellent performances using coins, they simply aren't card effects turned into coin magic.

There is nothing inherently personal about cards either. And there are people who feel the same way about card magic.

 

[kingdamian1]

Again, it is all subjective.


May I ask you where are you learning coin magic from, what have you studied thus far, where have you been studying magic from as a whole, and what books or program style DVDs (like metal) do you own currently?

Ahh... my love for magic goes way back. As a small kid, I always loved magic related stuff, but I couldn't master stuff... My love for magic was reignited. I want to be an ER doctor. And I want to perform magic, NOT JUST when there is lots of money involved, but even on simple occasions.
I have Bobo's Modern Coin magic... and Nicholas Einhorn books.
Card and coins are one of the first things you hear when going into magic... But whereas numbers of my card tricks kept enlarging... it just seemed like coin magic was very limited. All I knew was how to quickly sleeve a coin and pull it out of someone's ear... and a bad form of french drop. Then I saw David Roth perform (on the internet... I wish I had seen him live lulz)... And I was blown away. So it kind of brought back the passion for coin magic. Because, you hear of coins early on... but aside from simple techniques, they do not come up. I bought Bobo's book later. Now, i just want to add to my (mostly amateurish) stuff, some coin routine.

Also, you keep insisting that coin magic is not as hard... Let me say this, coin magic is the LEAST forgiving. Messing up a card routine, cups and balls and even some simple mentalist acts are easier... But even a slightly unnatural palm, and the trick may be ruined...

 

[Maaz Hasan]

Also, you keep insisting that coin magic is not as hard... Let me say this, coin magic is the LEAST forgiving. Messing up a card routine, cups and balls and even some simple mentalist acts are easier... But even a slightly unnatural palm, and the trick may be ruined...

First off, that isn't what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that it is different for each person, and one is not inherently easier than the other. Clearly, you think that coin magic is very difficult, which is absolutely fine, but that is you personally. Not everyone has that issue, but I'm sure there are people who do, just as I have a problem with understanding mentalism.

Secondly, if you need help with anything, me and everyone on the forums will be happy to help Just ask in a new thread, or PM someone.

Ahh... my love for magic goes way back. As a small kid, I always loved magic related stuff, but I couldn't master stuff... My love for magic was reignited. I want to be an ER doctor. And I want to perform magic, NOT JUST when there is lots of money involved, but even on simple occasions.
I have Bobo's Modern Coin magic... and Nicholas Einhorn books.
Card and coins are one of the first things you hear when going into magic... But whereas numbers of my card tricks kept enlarging... it just seemed like coin magic was very limited. All I knew was how to quickly sleeve a coin and pull it out of someone's ear... and a bad form of french drop. Then I saw David Roth perform (on the internet... I wish I had seen him live lulz)... And I was blown away. So it kind of brought back the passion for coin magic. Because, you hear of coins early on... but aside from simple techniques, they do not come up. I bought Bobo's book later. Now, i just want to add to my (mostly amateurish) stuff, some coin routine.

I'm glad to see that you have such a big love for magic.

Coin magic comes up very VERY often. I think there may be a reason as to why you don't see it though. I'm assuming your looking through sites like Penguin, Ellusionist, Murphy's, SansMinds, etc., all of whom look like they produce a new card effect every other day, or have less coin effects being sold than other effects. Let me ask you this, what do you think an absolute beginner to magic will buy first on impulse after discovering magic through YouTube: A card effect which either comes as a pre-made gimmick and he/she can do to Instagram, or the Coin effect which is either "smaller" than the card effect or takes a lot of misdirection to learn? These guys are after all, a business, and Card effects sell quick.

But if you look at history and the books about magic, coin magic has just a deep and rich history as card magic. If not more, seeing as coins were around a lot longer than cards, and magic itself has been around since civilization started (I wrote an essay on the history of magic, turns out the ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamian were doing magic just like stuff we do today. In fact, there is allegedly the first written account of magic in ancient Egypt where someone is performing the cups and balls. It was entertainment then, it's entertainment now). Even the first "Modern version" of a Magic book (as in the type of books we have today), "The Discoverie of Witchcraft", written in 1584 (yes, the 16th century) had coin effects in it.

Just because you do one type of magic doesn't mean you can't do another. In fact, variety is better. Even Marlo, arguably the best card man ever, a man who spent practically his entire career & most of his life dedicated to studying and creating Card Magic as a Cardician, wrote a book or 2 on Coins.

What I think your problem here is that you haven't really studied all the basics to coin magic, and instead have found those one or 2 tricks or moves, and don't really know what to do with them.

I have heard that Bobo is pretty hard to understand. My best advice is that you buy METAL by Eric Jones . It will take you through all of the basics, as well as how to actually use them. Alternatively, you can get Jay Sankey's Crash Course in Coin Magic, which will do a lot of the similar techniques, or Michael Ammar's Complete Intro to Coin Magic, which is also going to teach you most of the same sleights. Either one is great, but I think Metal is the best option out of all of these, simply because he will link it together at the end.

After learning that, you can move into Bobo if you need to. You can learn some good routines from that. Other good places to go are Jay Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic DVD (The one I linked is Volume one, he has 2 volumes), or more Coin magic books (best place imo). You can also go buy some coin magic DVDs or gimmicks or products. Just make sure you really actually want to buy them.

And I don't have it, but I suggest picking up the Karl Fulves book "Self Working Coin Tricks". Check your local library, they might have it, along with other coin books.

If you need anymore help I would make a new thread

 

[RealityOne]

Difficulty is a matter of perspective. Doing a Scotch & Soda routine is easy. Doing THIS CARD STUFF by Ernest Earick is insanely difficult. @Maaz Hasan's recommendations are spot on. I'd recommend Eric Jones's Metal, Volume 1, first and foremost. I did a review of Metal HERE. Eric is an amazing performer, an amazing teacher and a really nice guy.

After working through Metal, Bobo won't seem quite as daunting.

It is hard to create acts from coins... I'd love to master coin magic...

I have that exact same sentiment when it comes to creating routines or patter with coins. You can't have someone pick a coin, any coin. You can't find their coin, because they don't have a coin. There isn't anything to make it personal, they are just watching you vanish, reappear, and change coins. And this is coming from someone who likes coin magic

There are a lot of great coin routines. I do the Coins Through Table from Bobo's Modern Coin Magic with a presentation explaining how I was able to do things in my life I thought were impossible with the help of family and friends. I do David Regal's Clink (which thankfully isn't available for sale any longer!) with a presentation about the power of imagination. I love the Classic Miser's Dream as well as some of the versions using a coffee or similar cup.

To find some more of the exciting stuff, check out David Roth's Expert Coin Magic, Chris Kenner's Totally Out of Control (which I think is being reprinted after being out of print for years) and Troy Hoosier's Moments and Destroyers.

 

[Hgagnon]

I agree, even though I don't have it lol

Eric Jones clearly explains in the trailer that just learning these random coin moves isn't going to get you anywhere. It's confusing at first, and you don't know how 2 things might relate, but he goes over everything and it makes sense in the end. And seeing as it, along with one of Michael Ammar's DVD's are seen as the best videos to start with, it is definitely going to be worth it (it's on my buy list right now).

You can also work your way through Modern Coin Magic by Bobo, but it is a book with older wording after all, and metal will work you through the process of coin magic better.

Coin magic is a different beast from card magic. When you tackle coin magic like you do with cards, you only create obstacles for yourself.

I am new to coin magic and got Eric’s metal. I love it. It is great to be able to see him to know where hand placement is etc. The only problem is if you want lots of tricks you don’t get it. It only has 4. But you can probably create your own because there are 30 sleights in it. I still need Bobos coin magic which is on my list!

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

I believe the best way to achieve mastery in any branch of magic is one trick or routine at a time. It is is often so tempting to skip around and get attracted to something new without having mastered the effect(s) we were working on. The result: A repertoire of mediocre tricks. Better to do one coin (or card, or whatever) effect that has been mastered, than a couple dozen that are sloppy or not totally clean. If you walked into a room and heard someone sitting at a piano, playing a piece phenomenally, flawlessly, (but unknown to you it was the ONLY piece they knew) then he/she got up and walked out, chances are you would think, "OMG, That's one of the best piano players I ever heard." On the other hand, if you heard someone play a dozen pieces, none of which was smooth and flawless, you would just think (and justifiably so) that he/she was a poor or mediocre piano player.

kingdamian1 indicated that he could sleeve a coin effectively. A vanish, when done deceptively, is a very strong effect for a layman or magician. A complete vanish even way more so, because they most often believe (and correctly so) that it's in the other hand. So why not just perfect a complete vanish, maybe vanish the coin with a retention, classic palm, or finger palm vanish, or even a French drop, then sleeve and show both hands empty, one at a time, back and front. Super strong! Then just build from there. A very effective coins through table can be accomplished once you get the Han Ping Chien move down.

Becoming an ER doctor will involve its own great challenges, but one can be both a physician and fabulous magician if the work is put in - Dr. Daly proved it!

 

[HectorE1]

As a card guy that does coin magic, and to answer your question, I can say that yes coin magic is harder to learn than card magic and I'm not saying that because I started with cards first but because of the inherent nature of coins
Good Coin magic is pure sleigh of hand which requires proper technique and most importantly naturalness lack of any of these can give away a trick or effect in an instant as opposed to card magic...