Rough/Smooth question

Jul 15, 2017
107
95
Hey theory 11 crew,

I was just given Villian from Daniel Madison as a gift and I was wondering if any one had a good source on how to best use rough/smooth additives to cards. The well meaning gift giver decided to give it to me and delete the email that had the how to vid. Soooo..if anyone has a good resource, I'd love to see it.
 
Jan 26, 2017
2,173
1,338
23
Virginia
I believe there is a section in "The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks" that goes over R & S, in case you need some effects to do with it. But honestly, once you create an R & S card/deck, it's pretty easy to figure out what you should do.

Assuming that Villain is essentially a new Roughing Stick...:

If your looking for how to apply it, normally with a Roughing Stick, you simply press it against the card, and make a line on it (usually in the center). This roughs that area. You can apply Roughing to another card in the same area (or on the back of one). Where the 2 areas are Rough, the cards will have a lot of grip. Where the 2 rough parts meet, the cards will "stick" to each other (like how Grip Tape grips your shoes on a skateboard, because it is rough). With a little bit of pressure, you can slide them apart in performance.

Try it with 2 cards: Take one and on the face, put a line from top to bottom down the center. Then, on the back of the other one, do the same thing. You can then stick the 2 cards together, and you'll see that one is hidden behind the other. You can toss it in a deck, and it'll work like one card, and then when you go to find it, you can push them apart. If you've used an I******** D*** before, it's the same concept.

(I remembered this video, which uses a Roughing Stick, but it is essentially the same concept. Watch how he applies it. You can apply it in whatever pattern you want, but that is how you would use a Roughing Stick):
Edit: I accidentally linked the Villain Trailer. This is the right one now^

I'm fairly certain Villain will work the same way, but you can probably get the instructions from E by contacting their support team. You should definitely do that anyways, because DM also gave some effects in the 1 hour instruction video. Also, your friend may be able to recover the email that came with it (I think it's 30 days that the deleted email remains prior to being deleted forever?), or he might have the video on his Ellusionist account (if he has one).
 
Jul 15, 2017
107
95
Email went out on Friday to their support. I understand how busy the holidays can be, so I'm happy to wait until they are able to get to me, be it any time next week. Thanks for the tips!
 
Oct 4, 2022
79
21
I hope this is not an excessively 'stupid newbee' question. Justinquill wrote: "I was wondering if any one had a good source on how to best use rough/smooth additives to cards." I'm new to this and am a bit confused by the commonly used 'rough and smooth' term, which I was under the impression meant that for instance (1) in a face-up deck, if the back of every odd card, counting downward, were roughed (but not the face of the next card which is touching it), they would not slide easily and would tend to stick together in pairs, implying that the 'roughed' backs actually have a slight tackiness, and won't slide against a smooth card without pressure, thus the term 'rough and smooth'. But in the above thread, the description is to (2) rough both cards so that they won't slide -- which makes sense to me, as it would be like two sheets of extremely fine sandpaper face to face, forming AB pairs. Then, an AB AB AB AB stack would easily slide into four 'cards', each actually being a pair which could separate. In that case, the term 'smooth' would not apply to one of the faces in a joint AB pair, but to the back and face between each AB pair where I have a space: AB AB AB AB. So is it correct that both faces must be roughed, and it works like my AB... such that (1) would not work, and (2) would work? Or would (1) work but (2) would work better, and if this is the case, in what situations would one want to use (1) rather than (2)?

Finally, Justin refers to "rough/smooth additives", which might imply there is also a kind of additive which is smooth, which seems implausible to me, given that cards are made especially to glide against each other, especially if they have an air cushion finish.

I have just received a Neo V2 roughing stick in the mail which will be a stocking stuffer, and I'll need to know precisely how to use it. Thanks in advance!
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
When roughing cards, if you have two cards that are roughed (say the back of one card and face of another card) touching each other, the cards will handle as one card unless the pair is purposefully pushed apart. The "smooth" in "Rough and Smooth" refers to a card that isn't treated in some way to make it rough.
 
Oct 4, 2022
79
21
Great, thanks! I'll be making some of the typical decks that use this for e.g. Invisible and Brainwave decks but with cooler cards, like Theory 11 Mandalorian or Star Wars Dark (Theory 11 really puts out gorgeous stuff!), Bicycle Ninja, Eco and Web. I'll be using 808's too, but my boys will like the special cards. For example, there will be four identical decks, one regular, one for spare cards and one stripper. And I think a little R&S will make an easier 3-card Monte gaff. I assume I'm not revealing too much here.
 
Oct 4, 2022
79
21
I made some minor edits to your post as they were a little more detailed on methods than is permitted. I substituted the actual names for the types of decks your are making rather than their descriptions.

No problem! It would be very helpful if the rules were up front somewhere, and an abstract example or two after the rule would make it clearer (for instance, of a non-existent [AFAIK] trick: "if you know the trick behind item A is alternating back to back pairs of double faced cards using [x method], it is fine to mention item A but not to describe any of the remainder"). I looked for them so I would have an understanding of the limits but couldn't find an obvious link. I also looked for a link to the names of the moderating team for clarification on the limits, and did not see that. Finally, only the General Discussion in the index mentioned no reveals, and the other forum areas did not. This could be improved.

"Aren't the boys a little young for that? (Sorry, had to drop that joke in somewhere)."
LOL, yeah, when I was putting together a trick with a stripped queen and in my own notes writing a description about gifting one of them a stripper for Xmas, it occurred to me I should probably find a way to reword that when communicating with my 7- and 10-year-olds...
 
  • Like
Reactions: RealityOne
Oct 4, 2022
79
21
I got the Neo roughing stick and am wondering whether perhaps I received an old, dried out stick or whether this is what it's really supposed to be like. It is hard as a rock (well, much harder than any candle and as hard or harder than hard-milled soap). It takes great force to get any to apply onto a card. I mean, GREAT force, and I have to rub it many times, perhaps 6 -12, before there starts being enough on the card to have any effect when facing a similarly roughed card. I CAN use it, just with great difficulty. It also leaves visible marks, a sort of waxiness. Is that normal too? Asking anyone who specifically has a Neo stick, does that sound normal, or like I got a bad, dried out old stick and should order from a different source? Or should I switch brands?
 
Mar 6, 2023
1
0
LOL, yeah, I realised I should probably find a way to rephrase that while speaking with my 7- and 10-year-olds as I was putting together a trick with a stripped queen and making a description about giving one of them a stripper for Christmas in my own notes.
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Or should I switch brands?

I haven't used Neo Stick, so I can't comment on that.

I'm a Testor's Dullcoate guy. Two light coats gets me to the perfect grippyness. If stuff slides too much, one coat gets it back to new.

Trying something else as a spray and will let you know how it goes.
 

DavidL11229

Elite Member
Jul 25, 2015
589
314
Seattle
Nice, I think I might try the Testors sometime. What do you think they used on the commercial deck back in the 80s? It was probably the easiest sale to make in the magic shop I worked at.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RealityOne
Oct 4, 2022
79
21
Here in Taiwan I'm unable to buy the brands others suggest above, as aerosol paints don't ship well. I'm going to be trying a couple local brands, but just HAD to share a pic of this one with you. They have a range from satin (I think) and matte to semi-gloss and gloss [left to right] as far as I can tell, but the names are to die for. You can't make this s*** up!
mercerizing matt half dumb all bright.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidL11229
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results