Being Creepy?

[James Wise Magic]

Hello theory11. Its been awhile since ive posted in the forums. Ive got a question for everyone. I have a group of local magicians, theyremy friends. Some of them i went to high school with and we meet up and jam. They brought up an interesting point that Id like to ask everyones opinions.

They told me its 2018 and doing certain effects are just creepy. They said dont ever do Wayne Houchins French Kiss to women because its 2018 and they just find it creepy. Another one of them said he was at a bar doing magic he was hired at, the effect he was doing was texting someone a prediction for a card. The lady would not give her phone number, said she had a boyfriend and he was just being creepy. He told the ladies he was trying to pick them up, hes happily married, hes just doing a trick. The ladies say the fact that he was married made it even worse and just more creepy. My friends said it was extremely uncomfortable as they were just doing magic to perform.

So what do yall think? Have times changed? I personally have never had this problem, although im sure it will happen eventually.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Times have changed, yes, but I doubt that's really the source of the problem. Women are more willing to call someone out who they feel is being creepy, rather than just gossiping about it later.

A lot of the magicians I see perform use magic as a substitute for a personality. They have little to no social skill, because instead of learning social skills they learned the pass.

Wayne Houchin can do French Kiss because he's witty, likeable, and has boyish charm. He is skilled at establishing rapport and making people like and trust him. Therefore when he does things like French Kiss it's fun and mysterious instead of seeming creepy.

I've met a lot of magicians who come across as creeps, solely because they just can't read an audience very well. They cross lines on accident and can't tell because they don't know what to look for (if they're paying attention to the audience at all).

I've met a lot of women who automatically think magicians are creeps, because so many dudes have tried to pick them up using magic tricks. Not to mention how many absolute creepers there are on YouTube advocating using magic as a pick up strategy. So if a performer is acting like one of those guys, the women are going to think it's creepy.

In short - I think women think certain performers are being creepy, because they're being creepy. It's not the trick, necessarily.

 

[Lyle Borders]

First off, glad to see you back!

Gotta read the room. If your first trick is French Kiss, and you are getting up in someone's personal space without having established any sort of trust, you are going to come across as a creep. Remember - you are (usually) a stranger. If you come across as if you are trying to make a move on the spectator, and the spectator is not interested, this won't go well.

Getting a phone number is the same sort of thing. If you come across as harmless or trustworthy, you might get it. If you come across as a stranger hitting on the spectator and they aren't feeling it, you won't.

It is indeed 2018. There is a HUGE movement happening now for women to stand up against inappropriate behavior from men. This movement is hugely important. I think @ChristopherT hit it right on the nose. Previously many people would have let something they viewed as creepy slide. Today, it is much more likely that they will stand up for themselves and make it known that said behavior is not OK.

Is French Kiss a bad trick? Heavens no. It IS an intimate trick. If you try to perform a trick like this on someone who doesn't want (at all) to share the kind of moment with you, you are asking for trouble. If you don't think the spectator is feeling it, modify your trick. Don't do the whole "faces close together" deal. Do the trick in your hands, or some less intimate variation.

Above everything else - if you want to perform magic like this, you need to make sure you are likable in your performance, and you need to wait until your audience has opened up to you.

// L

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

@James1Wise, when you wrote, "He told the ladies he was trying to pick them up, hes happily married, hes just doing a trick," is it possible that this was a typo and it should have been, "He told the ladies he was not trying to pick them up"? A phone number is someone's private information, and in my humble opinion, asking a stranger (particularly a male asking a female) for their number is an invasion of privacy, even if it's in the context of performing magic, and maybe especially so. It would be different asking for a phone number in the situation where two people are clearly hitting it off after getting to know one another after conversing for a while and the woman is giving the green light by the things she is saying, her interest and enthusiasm level, and her body language. There is so much more to being a successful performer than being skilled at the moves and sleights. We are dealing with people, and that means it's important to develop our knowledge of human psychology, our personalities and interactive skills - most importantly making people feel good. This takes time insight and study to learn, and comes more natural to some than to others

I don't know that it really is a matter of times changing; I think tricks like French Kiss and certainly Goshman's ding dong trick, which run a high risk of either embarrassing the spectator, invading their personal space, taking unwarranted liberties, or otherwise making them uncomfortable, have always scored high on the creep-o-meter. And that is precisely the opposite result I believe we should be seeking to achieve as performers.

 

[James Wise Magic]

@James1Wise, when you wrote, "He told the ladies he was trying to pick them up, hes happily married, hes just doing a trick," is it possible that this was a typo and it should have been, "He told the ladies he was not trying to pick them up"? A phone number is someone's private information, and in my humble opinion, asking a stranger (particularly a male asking a female) for their number is an invasion of privacy, even if it's in the context of performing magic, and maybe especially so. It would be different asking for a phone number in the situation where two people are clearly hitting it off after getting to know one another after conversing for a while and the woman is giving the green light by the things she is saying, her interest and enthusiasm level, and her body language. There is so much more to being a successful performer than being skilled at the moves and sleights. We are dealing with people, and that means it's important to develop our knowledge of human psychology, our personalities and interactive skills - most importantly making people feel good. This takes time insight and study to learn, and comes more natural to some than to others

I don't know that it really is a matter of times changing; I think tricks like French Kiss and certainly Goshman's ding dong trick, which run a high risk of either embarrassing the spectator, invading their personal space, taking unwarranted liberties, or otherwise making them uncomfortable, have always scored high on the creep-o-meter. And that is precisely the opposite result I believe we should be seeking to achieve as performers.

Yes that was a typo. My mistake. And thank you for the advice everyone. Like i said, i personally have never experienced this before but hearing their moments of embarrassment i thought i may have to consider changing what i do.

 

[CWhite]

I think if David Blaine were to come out now, I don't think he'd be as successful.
His emotionless monotone character he portrays would be beyond creepy by today's messed up standards.

 

[RealityOne]

It comes down to Tamariz's "love your audience" and if the effect is within the bounds of your character. If the audience senses that you are having fun WITH them, the will react differently than if you are performing at them. Also, as others have said, read your audience. My performances change depending on how the person is reacting. Some people need to be subtlety reassured during a performance and others you can easily joke and play with. You also have to establish a rapport with your audience. Things have a different connotation if they have gotten to like and trust you in your performance.

 

[010rusty]

I believe this quote from @RealityOne applies here very well.

I’ve performed the baffling bra trick for my in-laws.

So yeah, because of this its my personal belief is it is a context thing.

 

[RickEverhart]

I've heard that magicians are "creeps" many, many times. I think some magicians who have in fact crossed the line a time or two while hitting on the hot girl in the group with magic have ruined it for the rest of us. As mentioned, a lot of magicians do NOT know how to read their audience or spectator and just perform the magic "at" them and hope for the best.

Okay so don't laugh, but I will sometimes purposely choose the woman out of the bunch who probably does not get all of the attention all of the time. I'm not saying "Pick the ugly ducking of the group." but chances are you are not going to then tick off the "alpha male" of the group and it will be an enjoyable experience for everyone.

Or, perform a magic trick for the "alpha male" of the group first which makes him look good to the group. Win him over. Then proceed to perform for the "10" at the table who you've been eyeballing sense walking into the venue LOL. Shut up...we've all been there.

I try not to put any cards or props into my mouth when performing because it looks gross and tacky. Especially while working corporate events or big dinner/cocktail parties. Just don't.

 

[Lord Magic]

When something doesn't suit your persona, it just...doesn't, you know?

Like, say Eugene Burger did the French Kiss...

See what I mean?

That being said, I feel it's not the times that have changed, but some magicians' mentalities. Basically, they have two VERY WRONG ideas...

1) They are the magicians and whatever the do is the new cool.

2) They think if they DO whatever's the new cool, they appear as really cool.

Well, yes, I completely agree sometimes the audience is just *too* suspicious (suspicious as in suspicious on a greater level. I am not talking about them being suspicious of you using a laser stick to bend spoons)...but mostly, the magician's behaviour leads to such ideas.

All in all...nothing is too creepy if you can make it less so.

Heck, even the trademark creepy tricks have a certain unspoken limit they cannot cross. So something like the French Kiss, which in right moments can be very sweet and flattering FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE (see, if you choose a church nun as your volunteer, you're basically asking for trouble)...most definitely cannot cross the said unspoken limit.

 

[RealityOne]

I believe this quote from @RealityOne applies here very well.

So yeah, because of this its my personal belief is it is a context thing.

And they were laughing at the end

That is also a matter of knowing your audience and presentation. My presentation was about having my white dove named Barbie appear from the silks, I talked about visualization of the white of the dove -- "like the white of a wedding dress and visualizing the love that a dove usually symbolizes by imagining the love you felt on your wedding night..." [father in law laughed], I corrected myself being a little flustered "wedding day." Regaining my composure, "So visualize the white of what you were wearing for your wedding and the love you felt... one, two, three...."