Will learning some cardistry help me improve my my sleight of hand with magic tricks?

[The VIP Gentleman]

I just learned my first cardistry today, and I really like it.
And I was wondering: will learning cardistry help me improve at sleight of hand with other magic tricks, like card magic or coin magic?

I mean, will it increase my general dexterity, hand flexibility and muscle memory, which could help me at my magic?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

In those terms, yes. It will increase your hand/finger dexterity and strength, and also give you a better understanding of how cards can be moved/manipulated. Which basically means that you'll probably have an easier time learning how to do various sleights, but does not mean you won't have to practice them.

 

[Lord Magic]

I mean, will it increase my general dexterity, hand flexibility and muscle memory, which could help me at my magic?

It will increase those things but...I don't think it will do so for magic.

I mean, that's like asking "Can mastering the second deal help me to smooth down my top change?"

It's two different things...maybe not as different as a second deal and a top change but relatively separate fields.

However, if you changed your question to "Will learning some cardistry help me to master other cardistry moves?"

Hell Yeah.

The opposite is not true though (unfortunately...)

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Synergy
syn·er·gy
ˈsinərjē/
noun
noun: synergy; plural noun: synergies; noun: synergism; plural noun: synergisms
the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.

Learning any physical dexterity-based skill with your hands will help all physical dexterity based skills with the hands. It conditions the hands to be used to doing those sorts of things.

Same reason why years of martial arts helped me learn poi spinning quickly, and why poi spinning helped me go from no juggling skill to being a performance grade juggler in 6 weeks.

Your body doesn't really "know" it's manipulating any particular object. Cards, coins, pens, doesn't matter. Take the object away and it's all largely based around the same sorts of movements.

And actually, yes, a strike second deal probably will help you do a better top change since they're almost the same thing.

 

[Lord Magic]

And actually, yes, a strike second deal probably will help you do a better top change since they're almost the same thing.

Yes it will! And that's my point! That it will help but only if we use a specific type of DL and favour a specific type of second deal. A specific cardistry move will help in a specific sleight only if they are closely related.

Other than that you'll get help only from the dexterity you achieve, which is a huge help tbh. But that dexterity does not come from learning cardistry specifically speaking. If he were to learn piano and then ask if that helps in sleights, I guess I couldn't say NO directly.

That's what I meant...the help he'll be getting is an indirect one, not a direct result of learning cardistry.

However, @The VIP Gentleman , don't worry about that...glad you liked cardistry and now are most prolly super-motivated to learn more! Just go along with the wave and I'm sure all the dexterity will help not only sleight of hand, but general finger movements too! Just treat it as a separate art form too, once in a while, not only as an aid to achieving magic
Have a great time mate!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

What resources are you drawing these conclusions from, Lord Magic? Because it seems to me that, once again, you are trying to be definitive on a subject in which you are not educated. And, once again, I am drawing on decades of personal experience and training.

Shin Lim was a classic pianist before he got into sleight of hand and has said previously that being a piano player directly assisted his skill development. Not only does piano increase hand dexterity and strength, it also helps teach the split mind technique to be able to do different things with both hands at the same time.

Why do you think basketball and football players take dance classes? Because the agility they learn in dancing increases the agility in the sport they play.

Power lifters often also do Yoga and Gymnastics because the body awareness developed in those practices helps lift more effectively.

Apollo Robbins learned coin magic to exercise his hands and then took those skills and applied them to picking pockets.

Learning how to use a particular body part effectively (ie: Cardistry for the hands) will make learning other skills related to that body part (ie: sleight of hand) easier, even if they are not one-to-one similarities in movements.

 

[Lord Magic]

Shin Lim was a classic pianist before he got into sleight of hand and has said previously that being a piano player directly assisted his skill development. Not only does piano increase hand dexterity and strength, it also helps teach the split mind technique to be able to do different things with both hands at the same time.

That's what I said man! I said that playing a piano helps in dexterity, did I not?

If he were to learn piano and then ask if that helps in sleights, I guess I couldn't say NO directly.

See?

I just meant that learning piano does not help in doing the werm or something but the dexterity DEVELOPED as a result of playing the piano helps in it.

My whole point is that improved sleight of hand wouldn't be a DIRECT result of cardistry, but be an INDIRECT one, helpful nevertheless.

If he never did any cardistry but played hardcore piano, or guitar, it would help in the same way. That's what I mean.

What resources are you drawing these conclusions from, Lord Magic?

well, I have been doing cardistry for some time now. I am not as great as Zach Mueller in cardistry or something, but have enough passion for it to grind me to learn more cardistry moves constantly. Also, I play musical instruments (harmonium) and play basketball (not religiously, but anyways...) and do yoga and for a bonus, know how to touch type (yay!)

Not much...but I feel those are some reasonable resources (?)...

And, once again, I am drawing on decades of personal experience and training.

Aw man...I thought you did not do cardistry...sorry, my bad.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

My whole point is that improved sleight of hand wouldn't be a DIRECT result of cardistry, but be an INDIRECT one, helpful nevertheless.

This is what you're wrong about.

Learning any physical dexterity-based skill will help you, directly, to learn OTHER physical-dexterity based skills. That's what I mean when I say Synergy.

Here's one for you - learning Gymnastics would directly help your ability to learn sleight of hand. Why? Because when you learn how to understand how your own body works, it helps in learning all skills relating to using ANY part of your body. Therefore, someone who's experienced in tumbling will have a better understanding of how their body parts move and interact with each other, which will directly aid in learning another skill like sleight of hand, which relies on being able to move body parts in precise ways.

Learning piano teaches you stretch your fingers and use them in unusual ways, as well as developing the strength in the hand muscles to apply pressure in directions most people are not used to - What do you think is needed to do the Werm? That's right, stretching fingers and applying pressure.

You keep trying to have it both ways so that you never appear to be wrong, but the problem with that is that you are working from a lack of information.

That's what I said man! I said that playing a piano helps in dexterity, did I not?

Lord Magic said: ↑
If he were to learn piano and then ask if that helps in sleights, I guess I couldn't say NO directly.

Do you not see how this is a contradiction? You always try to have it both ways so you never appear to be wrong, but in so doing you are at best confusing new learners and at worst spreading blatantly incorrect information.

 

[Lord Magic]

Okay, you've skipped the part where I asked you if you performed cardistry enough to know its effects but...anyways...

Learning piano teaches you stretch your fingers and use them in unusual ways, as well as developing the strength in the hand muscles to apply pressure in directions most people are not used to

That's...that's exactly what...well, anyways...

See, if I never learnt piano, but I used a finger exercise routine to help me stretch my fingers...wouldn't it help me in the same way? I am omitting how a piano helps both hands function independently to some extent. Why? Because even that could be achieved by say, learning how to touch type. So, a combo of finger exercises and touch typing helps in the same way as playing piano does.

And that stretching and dexterity will help in doing the Rev cut to some extent.

So PLAYING PIANO did not help make Rev cut easy...STRETCHING fingers and WORKING SOMEWHAT INDEPENDENTLY with both hands did. The DEXTERITY DEVELOPED AS A RESULT of playing piano has helped, not the playing of piano directly.

You always try to have it both ways so you never appear to be wrong, but in so doing you are at best confusing new learners and at worst spreading blatantly incorrect information.

Okay...so...can you please just omit the experience-o argument here? I mean, it seems like a very unsportsmanlike argument to prove a point.

"I am correct and you are wrong because...um...because...because I am better than you!"

And no, I don't see if I am contradicting myself. What I see is both you and me are fighting for the same side while not realising so (although you have worded your opinions in a much more clearer way, no doubt. ).

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I only hope one day you realize your arrogance is going to mislead a lot of people. In the mean time, thank jebus for an ignore feature.

 

[Lord Magic]

arrogance