T11 decks from Target feel like Rider backs... just me?

[Divinejames]

It's been a while since I've been on a card buying spree, but my local target had a big display of Theory 11 decks, so I figured I'd check a couple out. I picked up an NPH deck and two High Victorians (those long-ass deck seals can go straight to hell), and the printing looks amazing.

The stock, not so much.

These feel like Rider backs to me. None of them were traditionally cut, and the edges felt particularly roughed up. I remember that the mass-produced Guardians were definitely standard stock, but that was back in the day, and with Target charging $9.95 a pop for these decks, I wondered if they had finally shelled out for better stock.

Just me? Anyone with any intel on whether the T11 decks should be bought directly from them?

 

[Lyle Borders]

It's been a while since I've been on a card buying spree, but my local target had a big display of Theory 11 decks, so I figured I'd check a couple out. I picked up an NPH deck and two High Victorians (those long-ass deck seals can go straight to hell), and the printing looks amazing.

The stock, not so much.

These feel like Rider backs to me. None of them were traditionally cut, and the edges felt particularly roughed up. I remember that the mass-produced Guardians were definitely standard stock, but that was back in the day, and with Target charging $9.95 a pop for these decks, I wondered if they had finally shelled out for better stock.

Just me? Anyone with any intel on whether the T11 decks should be bought directly from them?

The stock we use for our decks? Not Rider Back stock. We use the same upgraded stock for all of our own prints.

The mass-produced Guardians have never been on the same stock that other theory11 decks have been printed on - we have been using nicer stock for our own decks for AGES, but Guardians are not a normal theory11 deck. We licenced that design to USPC, and they print it however they like. They likely used standard Bike stock. We don't know for sure because we don't control those prints.

theory11 decks at Target are identical to theory11 decks at theory11.com. People have asked if we do cheaper, mass printing for Target. I can assure you that this is not the case. How do I know? I order EVERY. SINGLE. DECK. that theory11 sells. The decks you get sent in a theory11 package come from the same batches of cards that Target gets sent, and all of those are on the same stock and use the same finish that we have been using for years now. Everything is done on USPC's best machinery using top of the line stocks and finishes.

// L

 

[Divinejames]

It's been a while since I've been on a card buying spree, but my local target had a big display of Theory 11 decks, so I figured I'd check a couple out. I picked up an NPH deck and two High Victorians (those long-ass deck seals can go straight to hell), and the printing looks amazing.

The stock, not so much.

These feel like Rider backs to me. None of them were traditionally cut, and the edges felt particularly roughed up. I remember that the mass-produced Guardians were definitely standard stock, but that was back in the day, and with Target charging $9.95 a pop for these decks, I wondered if they had finally shelled out for better stock.

Just me? Anyone with any intel on whether the T11 decks should be bought directly from them?

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[EndersGame]

The stock we use for our decks? Not Rider Back stock. We use the same upgraded stock for all of our own prints.

The decks you get sent in a theory11 package come from the same batches of cards that Target gets sent, and all of those are on the same stock and use the same finish that we have been using for years now. Everything is done on USPC's best machinery using top of the line stocks and finishes.

I figured that all Theory11 decks have matching quality, regardless of whether they are sold in Target or elsewhere, so it's good to get an official word on that.

But can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean when you say that Theory11 decks are "Not Rider Back stock". As I understand it, USPCC only has three types of stock that they use, namely their premium Bee stock (thickest), standard Bicycle stock (normal), and Thin Crush stock. Which of these is used for the Theory11 decks?

I thought that Theory11 decks are printed on the same stock as many other custom decks - maybe not standard rider backs, but certainly others. Or are you saying that it's none of these three types, but something different again?

 

[GavHern]

The decks sold at target should be identical to the ones sold online...

 

[EndersGame]

But can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean when you say that Theory11 decks are "Not Rider Back stock". As I understand it, USPCC only has three types of stock that they use, namely their premium Bee stock (thickest), standard Bicycle stock (normal), and Thin Crush stock. Which of these is used for the Theory11 decks?

I thought that Theory11 decks are printed on the same stock as many other custom decks - maybe not standard rider backs, but certainly others. Or are you saying that it's none of these three types, but something different again?

Any comment on the above, Lyle? I'm looking forward to some clarification on what you wrote earlier about this.

 

[Lyle Borders]

Any comment on the above, Lyle? I'm looking forward to some clarification on what you wrote earlier about this.

Sorry, haven't been in the forums much the last few days.

We don't talk a lot about specifics when comparing our decks to other decks - Would not do us much good to make it easier to every creator out there to perfectly imitate our creation.

A few points of clarification here. There are a LOT of things that affect quality of playing cards from USPC. Stock and Finish are only two of those variables.

Generally, USPC only offers two stocks (Classic / Bicycle stock, and the thicker Premium / Bee stock). There is no such stock as "crushed stock".

Once you choose your stock from above, you have the option to have that stock "crushed". It is not a separate stock, it is an optional process.

Once crushed or not, your inks have a large impact on performance. This has more to do with design, but they do affect quality.

Finishes. There are two generally available finishes. Embossed (aka Air-Cushion, Cambric, Linen and Magic) which is the dimpled finish, or Smooth (aka Ivory) which is the non-dimpled finish.

Presses. The USPC uses multiple kinds of presses, and depending on the size of print run you have and the options you choose.

If you are printing 2500 decks (USPC's minimum print run) you have access to some of these options. The combinations you choose have a large effect on final quality. While I won't say specifics about what we use, I can say this - We are the USPC's largest custom print customer. Our smallest print runs are many times the size of most Kickstarter prints. Our largest runs? Many times larger. We do not have the same kind of relationship with the USPC that most individuals or companies have, and that means we aren't always subject to the same limitations.

// L

 

[EndersGame]

Terrific post, Lyle. Thanks so much for clarifying about the Thin-Crush option, and how that works; that's very helpful.