The Problem with Magic.

Magic is the most difficult art form:-

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Jun 18, 2019
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It isn't a question, but beautifully disturbing.

The huge number of magicians who do cardistry (frequently or just here and there between magic) might ''feel me'' on this one, because it is a sad confession.

I started Magic first and I'm going to remain a 'magician' forever (or at least, for a long time).

I started cardistry much later than I started learning magic.

Yet, I ENJOY CARDISTRY MORE THAN MAGIC.

There, I said it. Kill me and plague me with judgement now.
But before that, have you asked my poor soul what the reason is? Well, it is because whatever I practice in Cardistry, I. PRACTICE. TO. SHOW. THEM. TO. PEOPLE.

Here lies one of the problems in magic.

The Secrecy of Magic

I spend months, maybe even years, to perfect my second deal as much as possible (say). OR I spend years behind my passes. OR my retention vanishes. OR my switches. And the goal is to make them look so amazing that...

They become invisible.

It seems counter-intuitive to be honest. We sing so that people can listen to us singing. We perfect our dance moves so that people can see it. We even perfect our flicks and cuts and springs so that people see and appreciate it. BUT we practice sleights or build intricate (sometimes) gimmicks so that NOBODY. CAN. SEE. THEM.

If I had no idea of magic. If I were from a different planet and was told that this is what a community called 'magicians' do on the Earth, I'd immediately ask, “Are these people retarded?”

So another 'problem' with magic, in my opinion, is it's insane difficulty.

MAGIC IS DIFFICULT and an art of connecting with people but demands huge amounts of time spent in total ISOLATION.

It feels like a penance, almost. Let me practice without ever boasting about the technique I can DO. It's like reciting the Bhagwad Gita everyday when I practice, “Gain knowledge but don't boast of it. Labour, but you aren't entitled to the fruits!”

Second deals are hard or invisible passes are inhumanly difficult to achieve, but even more importantly, we have to confine ourself for hours and hours within a room to practice something so that NOBODY can see it. I won't be surprised if it drives people crazy, to be honest.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes the pay-off is worth it, or more than worth it. But we all know that sometimes, it isn't. Benjamin Earl, for example, spent a LOT of time perfecting false riffle shuffles but ended up switching them overnight for overhand shuffles and ways of manipulating them, something mentioned in the VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF AN ELEMENTARY CARD MAGIC BOOK!

Another problem is its STRANGE RULES AND PARAMETERS.

A talented magician.

What does that mean?

Talented at harnessing magical powers? But we don't really do that. Talented at using sleights and gimmicks, misdirections? But those are invisible and we aren't apparently using them. Talented at evoking a sense of astonishment in people? But today lots of other art forms make people say 'it looks like/feels like MAGIC'.

So whatever we are gets confined within rules, and at the same time there aren't clear-cut rules, and what we get is a huge art form FILLED with grey lines. What is magic? It must be the ONLY art form where the artists can't even agree onthe definition of the art form!

HOWEVER;

Magic has its problems. In my opinion, it is the most difficult art form out there. I'm not talking about the explicit difficulty--- achieving a freeze in Break Dancing is way harder and physically demanding than achieving a perfect DL. But I'm talking about it's implicit difficulty. I made this thread to air out some grievances this art has imposed upon me and to see if others feel the same and how they cope up with it, because all of us are in the same boat.

Yet, that is precisely what makes magic an unique art/craft. It is what makes magic beautiful. There's a reason why we can name so many great dancers and musicians immediately, but can count the magicians who can evoke the feeling of 'real' magic, on our fingers. It is what makes magic fantastic. It's what makes magic an ethereal experience. A delicate string of illusion which can break very, very easily, and is often broken by the spinner themself! This is also precisely why I'm in love with magic. The problems make it so much more 'magical' than its plus points, that I felt if we are to love magic, we must understand its problems too.

Tell me what you think :)
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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First - a moment of practical positivity -

Yet, I ENJOY CARDISTRY MORE THAN MAGIC.

There, I said it. Kill me and plague me with judgement now.

If you enjoy doing something, assuming it's not hurting anyone else, then no one else's opinion is really that important.

Enjoy the things that bring you joy with abandon. You don't have to be the best. You don't even have to be objectively 'good'. If you enjoy doing it, continue doing it. Ignore anyone that tells you it's wrong.

That being said -

I think the source of the frustration you are referring to in your post stems from one single concept: Magic is Art.

That concept is, in my humble opinion, flawed.

Magic is NOT art. Magic is a set of tools used to Create Art.

A paint brush is not art in and of itself. It can be used to create art.

A dance move is not art in itself. It can be combined with other moves and music and scenery to create art, though.

The Art of magic exists only during a performance, because the art is derived from the emotions evoked by the routines. The experience of magic is the art of magic, not the moves, routines, and techniques used to create those experiences.

Painters will paint, say, an eye over and over and over until they get it how they want it. It's called doing a study. They'll practice making the right kinds of curves, straight lines, angles, etc. until they get it into their muscle memory. We don't consider that part the art. That's part of the creation of art.

The problem is that the magic industry has focused so much on the methods for so long that I believe people have lost sight of what the actual magic of magic is.

There's probably also a bit of ego going on here, too. We spend so much time working on these techniques and can't really ever show them off, except to other magicians. It actually reminds me of a book. "Magic" by William Goldman (Yes, same guy who wrote The Princess Bride). The premise is a magician who focused completely on learning sleight of hand and gets very good at that, but has zero presentation skills, so his career flops at first until he finds a vent figure that's possessed (or something, it's been years since I read it) and the figure essentially heckles him during his act which gives the audience something to laugh at. They think he's a ventriloquist.

Another pop culture reference - In The Prestige, Alfred Borden is excellent at sleight of hand and figuring out methods for things, but it's not until he learns how to perform that he gets any traction at all in his career. In the book it's even more distinct.

If you really study a lot of the great magicians of today and of history, you'll find they really didn't often do a ton of difficult sleight of hand. It's almost never necessary. Sometimes it is, but in almost all cases it's just as deceptive to use something easier. There are exceptions, of course and those are mainly where it's a pure display of skill such as gambling demos.

I find the arc tends to go like this: Beginners use simple sleights because that's all their capable of. Intermediates use difficult sleights because they've spent a lot of time learning those sleights and they don't want it to feel wasted. Advanced magicians use simple sleights because they get the job done and allow them to focus on the performance.
 
Jun 18, 2019
540
293
20
West Bengal, India
Magic is NOT art. Magic is a set of tools used to Create Art.

A paint brush is not art in and of itself. It can be used to create art.
Ah, I just got what you mean (I think, yet I want to reiterate it)... You're not saying that sleights are the tools to achieve the art of magic (because as you said, the 'art' of magic exists within the performance), INSTEAD magic itself is the tool to achieve the art. You're saying that 'Magic The Craft' is a tool to achieve 'Magic The Art' (?). Wow. This feels like a mind-opening idea.
I find the arc tends to go like this: Beginners use simple sleights because that's all their capable of. Intermediates use difficult sleights because they've spent a lot of time learning those sleights and they don't want it to feel wasted. Advanced magicians use simple sleights because they get the job done and allow them to focus on the performance.
It is this analomous fact in magic which I wanted to point out, and it's a surprising thing sometimes. One would say that *within the rhythm, music, tone, feel* of a song, the more difficult bridges, runs, notes make the song better, or basically, doing the more difficult thing equates to it being better is something ingrained in us. That if we input 2 hours in perfecting a sleight as opposed to 2 years perfecting a different sleight, the latter should be ''better'' because the output quality should be proportional to the time or energy invested. Yet in magic that's simply not true, it doesn't hold!

That's exactly what blows my mind.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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One would say that *within the rhythm, music, tone, feel* of a song, the more difficult bridges, runs, notes make the song better, or basically, doing the more difficult thing equates to it being better is something ingrained in us.

Does it, though?

Genres where technical prowess tends to be the main goal are very niche. Jazz, prog rock, death metal, etc. Relatively small audience pools compared to pop and rock, which generally use about the same 8 chords, always. Exhibit A:

In magic the physical method is a relatively small portion of the whole. The whole being the artistic, magical experience the audience has. I have and will continue to attest that the physical method is only about 10% of that whole. It doesn't matter how long it took the performer to get that physical method to performance quality, all that matters is that the physical method does what it needs to do so the performer can present the effect they are aiming for.

Basically, the key is to find the method that most efficiently and effectively achieves the desired effect. Occasionally a complicated, difficult sleight is best option. But that's pretty rare. David Berglas made liberal use of the Glide and little else in regards to sleight of hand with cards, and he's such a legend there's an entire genre of magic trick named after him. I saw TC Tahoe do a version of the Criss Cross Force that is more deceptive than almost any classic force I've seen (Save Shoot Ogawa's - that was incredible). Even Ricky Jay, the celebrated card mechanic, used pretty simple sleights for most of Ricky Jay and his 52 Assistants. Aside from the gambling portion, which is a specific display of skill, it was mostly side steals, double lifts, and false counts. Oh, and the cull.
 
Nov 3, 2018
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Painters will paint, say, an eye over and over and over until they get it how they want it. It's called doing a study. They'll practice making the right kinds of curves, straight lines, angles, etc. until they get it into their muscle memory. We don't consider that part the art. That's part of the creation of art.
Though I agree with most of what you said, let me play devil's advocate here: My sister's really good at making sketches of different things, in different styles. It's usually not displayed anywhere, she just draws in her little books until it's filled with many different pictures, some of which look really amazing. Is this not art? Is it art only once it's displayed for people?
Or, to take it to the professional level (and get it away from the potentially personal ;)), take sketches by really good painters: Da Vinci, Rembrandt, the like. Can these sketches not be viewed as art, just because the painter intended them to be only practice for "the real thing"?

Does it, though?

Genres where technical prowess tends to be the main goal are very niche. Jazz, prog rock, death metal, etc. Relatively small audience pools compared to pop and rock, which generally use about the same 8 chords, always. Exhibit A:
What he said.
I'm a huge fan of Progressive Metal, a genre which makes liberal use of many things not usually found in popular music -- for good reason (to all the musicians out there, just the mention of a song in 13/16 should send cold sweat running down your face). It's incredibly difficult to play, yet the more I listen to it (and don't get me wrong, I still love it), the more I understand why most people don't enjoy it.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Why do the methods even exist then?

How else do you intend to present the desired effect? There has to be a method to do it.

Unless you mean the more complicated, difficult methods. Those methods exist because people keep trying to come up with new methods or they are exploring a particular method and pushing it. Or they want to show off to other magicians (and sell the tutorial).

Though I agree with most of what you said, let me play devil's advocate here: My sister's really good at making sketches of different things, in different styles. It's usually not displayed anywhere, she just draws in her little books until it's filled with many different pictures, some of which look really amazing. Is this not art? Is it art only once it's displayed for people?
Or, to take it to the professional level (and get it away from the potentially personal ;)), take sketches by really good painters: Da Vinci, Rembrandt, the like. Can these sketches not be viewed as art, just because the painter intended them to be only practice for "the real thing"?

My only real criteria for something to be art is that it evokes emotion and/or thoughts. If someone comes across those sketches and finds them evocative, then it's art. I purposely keep my definition of art pretty wide and kind of vague because I've experienced a lot of stuff I considered to be art which can't be summed up precisely.
 
Jun 18, 2019
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West Bengal, India
Or they want to show off to other magicians (and sell the tutorial).
But don't certain methods apply to different 'stages'? I'd employ different methods for 'tricking' a person and for 'tricking' the camera. Since misdirectiond and psychology doesn't fool a camera, the methods then become significantly difficult, in my opinion (unless one uses editing tricks to achieve the tricks themselves).

Just a PSA by the way, Garrett Thomas defined art as 'anything that is not done for survival or procreation,' and though not written in stone, I admit I do think it's a pretty good definition of art.

The only problem with @WitchDocIsIn 's definition, if I nitpick obviously, because definitions themselves become subjective, HOWEVER for the purpose of discussion, by that idea art becomes subjective too. Which also means that a mere colour change can become art for me even if it is not for anybody else, because who knows, it might evoke an emotion in me.
 

WitchDocIsIn

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Sep 13, 2008
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That comes down to choosing the correct move for the environment. You will certainly use different techniques, and even plots, for a camera than you would a live person.

However, you're not 'tricking a camera'. You're 'tricking' the person on the other side of the screen, as it were. Which changes what you're able to get away with. There's plenty of things that will only work for a camera because it utilizes the limited frame of vision or the frame rate of recording. My pass is phenomenal on a web cam :D

I'm not sure why you're bringing up cameras in relation to the stages I mentioned earlier, though? Those stages have nothing to do with performance environment.
 
Jun 18, 2019
540
293
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West Bengal, India
I'm not sure why you're bringing up cameras in relation to the stages I mentioned earlier, though? Those stages have nothing to do with performance environment.
Oh I didn't mean the stages you have mentioned, ha ha! You misunderstand... I meant stages as a place to perform, such as the street for Blaine, or a literal stage for stage magicians, or a table for table magicians. :)
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Oh. Then yes, certain methods work better in certain environments. You can get away with a LOT on stage that would never fly close up.

In that regard the idea of using more difficult sleights for camera still doesn't really pan out. It will usually result in someone going, "Not sure exactly what he's doing, but it happens at this time frame". When creating anything for a video you have to take into account that it will be re-watched, possibly dozens of times.

Close up is generally the environment where difficult sleights may be the best choice because people are right there. However, in many, if not most cases the difficult sleight is still going to be more for the magician's ego than the efficiency of the method.
 
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