Performing Copied Flourishes

[DLeerium]

Is it offensive, to be performing someones flourishes/ tricks without actually buying the DVD or watching a tutorial by them.

Ive been iinto cardistry for about 8 months now, and yet I dont own any card flourishing videos whatsoever (expensive)
I learnt everything off youtube videos.

I learnt moves such as Eye cut and anaconda by Bone Ho. Repainted, Damn Straight by Kevin Ho and the carnahan fan, under pressure by D&D Buck, purely off watching their performance video over and over again. yet when people find out I havent bought the DVD they get offended, by the fact that im just "copying peoples moves". Am I doing the wrong thing here?

 

[Farrell]

As long as you give credit and/or ask the creator first you will be fine.

 

[Nate Malini]

Look at the money your saving.
Your not hurting anyone right?
Dan and Dave are rich enough.
your not going to teach others anyway right. its for you only.
these guys on you tube do tricks so bad you can't help but see the secret.
Its not stealing if you can't physically put your hand on it and take it.
As for me i kinda like buying and learning from the actual creators. you get to learn the small things you can't see from a demo that makes the trick,slight,flourish or routine 100 times better. With your keen eye can you imagine how much better your magic could be with an actual C.D? you mite even one day create something new and original you would like to market.

 

[BenYou]

The thing about copied flourishes is that most of the time, people learn it wrong. They screw up the move, that is not doing honor to the move. I mean when you see some guy who does it wrong choppy and stuff, you get discouraged from performing the move, seeing it from Dan and Dave, etc makes you wanna do it.

Buying the DVD is a form of appreciation. Furthermore, you can have the confidence that you are performing it right.

Otherwise, let everything else serve as an inspiration.

I have also copied flourishes, but the disconcerting fact that i'm not 100% sure how exactly it is done puts me off.

 

[Jordan Lapping]

You aren't necessarily doing 'wrong', but this discussion is purely based around many people's morals and ethics.

Let's take a step back and understand the situation. If you think about it, look at how much money Dan and Dave are losing if you do not buy their DVD. Let's assume five people a day do what you have done, simply because learning from performances is 'better' than paying for the product. If this happened five times a day, Dan and Dave would lose a total between $150 and $425 daily.

Imagine how much impact that has on the creators. They are losing a lot of money and trade; money that could be used to produce other products, improve websites or create much better comfort of the customer.

But if money is an issue for yourself and you cannot afford the product, then fair be it. However, it is only fair to then purchase the product when you have some spare change. Not only will you guarentee correct handlings, but also unsure that you learn much more material - stuff that you may not have even seen online.

Many people's moral are; if you respect the creator, buy their products. Personally, I would prefer to learn from the creators, than the downgrades of the magic community.

Jordan

 

[EugeneSoh]

You aren't necessarily doing 'wrong', but this discussion is purely based around many people's morals and ethics.

Let's take a step back and understand the situation. If you think about it, look at how much money Dan and Dave are losing if you do not buy their DVD. Let's assume five people a day do what you have done, simply because learning from performances is 'better' than paying for the product. If this happened five times a day, Dan and Dave would lose a total between $150 and $425 daily.

Imagine how much impact that has on the creators. They are losing a lot of money and trade; money that could be used to produce other products, improve websites or create much better comfort of the customer.

But if money is an issue for yourself and you cannot afford the product, then fair be it. However, it is only fair to then purchase the product when you have some spare change. Not only will you guarentee correct handlings, but also unsure that you learn much more material - stuff that you may not have even seen online.

Many people's moral are; if you respect the creator, buy their products. Personally, I would prefer to learn from the creators, than the downgrades of the magic community.

Jordan

i agree 100% with jordan!

 

[Mr.J]

if you respect the creator, buy their products.

It can't be said much better than that

 

[Farrell]

It can't be said much better than that

Well it could you could say, if you respect the creator, buy their products. Now heres a free cookie.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

Look at the money your saving.
Your not hurting anyone right?
Dan and Dave are rich enough.
your not going to teach others anyway right. its for you only.
these guys on you tube do tricks so bad you can't help but see the secret.
Its not stealing if you can't physically put your hand on it and take it.
As for me i kinda like buying and learning from the actual creators. you get to learn the small things you can't see from a demo that makes the trick,slight,flourish or routine 100 times better. With your keen eye can you imagine how much better your magic could be with an actual C.D? you mite even one day create something new and original you would like to market.

I'm not trying to beat-up on you Nate, I'm just letting you know, that type of mentality is wrong. With that mindset, lets copy Hollywood DVDs, cause it's not hurting anyone! Let's copy Hollywood DVDs, cause the producers are rich enough! You're not going to show the DVD to anyone else right? It's only for you so that makes it right. No, it doesn't. (lol)

That still doesn't make it right, it's still stealing. Jordan Lapping is correct, if you have any respect for the creators, buy their stuff. I wanted to learn some cuts from The Trilogy, I could have easily gone onto youtube and searched for a tutorial on stuff. But I waited till I had some money and I bought The Trilogy and it has been an awesome DVD!

Anyway, I just had to let you know Nate, that that mindset isn't a good one to be in. I'm not saying you're wrong about the subject, if you can learn from watching a performance, so be it! That's pretty cool and means you have a lot of patience! But, doing it just because you're not hurting anyone and Dan and Dave are rich enough, isn't the right reason. The reason should be, that you love flourishing and want to learn the cut. That's why you're able to watch the video of it over and over again till you've learned it.

But, I'm going to stop ranting and spewing my views everywhere. Peace!

Tyler

 

[Andrei]

I agree with Jordan as but let's face it, everybody has done it at one point or another.

 

[trashmanf]

It's not *offensive* to copy them, but it gets freakin damn boring after a while of watching it. probably once I've hit 1000 viewings of the "jones change" I will start to get offended by it, but until then it's merely droll.

copy away! it's like star wars episode two up in this mother foyer.

 

[monark]

I'm not trying to beat-up on you Nate, I'm just letting you know, that type of mentality is wrong. With that mindset, lets copy Hollywood DVDs, cause it's not hurting anyone! Let's copy Hollywood DVDs, cause the producers are rich enough! You're not going to show the DVD to anyone else right? It's only for you so that makes it right. No, it doesn't. (lol)

That still doesn't make it right, it's still stealing. Jordan Lapping is correct, if you have any respect for the creators, buy their stuff. I wanted to learn some cuts from The Trilogy, I could have easily gone onto youtube and searched for a tutorial on stuff. But I waited till I had some money and I bought The Trilogy and it has been an awesome DVD!

Anyway, I just had to let you know Nate, that that mindset isn't a good one to be in. I'm not saying you're wrong about the subject, if you can learn from watching a performance, so be it! That's pretty cool and means you have a lot of patience! But, doing it just because you're not hurting anyone and Dan and Dave are rich enough, isn't the right reason. The reason should be, that you love flourishing and want to learn the cut. That's why you're able to watch the video of it over and over again till you've learned it.

But, I'm going to stop ranting and spewing my views everywhere. Peace!

Tyler

I think that the first 6 lines of his post were meant to be sarcastic. He evens says in his next line that he prefers to buy from the actual creators.

Just pointing that out.

Carry on...

 

[CDarklock]

You know, there's one thing we need to remember.

Your audience is generally not composed of other card workers.

They don't care who invented it. Even if you tell them, they won't remember. They won't even remember you. You've heard them. "We were on vacation? In California? And we stayed at this hotel? And there was this guy? And he had some cards? And he did, like, stuff? And it was awesome."

It's a little different when we're hanging around with each other talking shop. But if I come to your show, and you pop out some flourish and say "that was invented by so-and-so and I learned it from such-and-such", I'm going to come up after the show and smack you.

 

[Nate Malini]

I'm not trying to beat-up on you Nate, I'm just letting you know, that type of mentality is wrong. With that mindset, lets copy Hollywood DVDs, cause it's not hurting anyone! Let's copy Hollywood DVDs, cause the producers are rich enough! You're not going to show the DVD to anyone else right? It's only for you so that makes it right. No, it doesn't. (lol)

That still doesn't make it right, it's still stealing. Jordan Lapping is correct, if you have any respect for the creators, buy their stuff. I wanted to learn some cuts from The Trilogy, I could have easily gone onto you tube and searched for a tutorial on stuff. But I waited till I had some money and I bought The Trilogy and it has been an awesome DVD!

Anyway, I just had to let you know Nate, that that mindset isn't a good one to be in. I'm not saying you're wrong about the subject, if you can learn from watching a performance, so be it! That's pretty cool and means you have a lot of patience! But, doing it just because you're not hurting anyone and Dan and Dave are rich enough, isn't the right reason. The reason should be, that you love flourishing and want to learn the cut. That's why you're able to watch the video of it over and over again till you've learned it.

But, I'm going to stop ranting and spewing my views everywhere. Peace!

Tyler

I was afraid My message would be misunderstood i was just trying to paint a pitcher so silly that it would make him draw his own conclusion, the right one. I figured by my last sentence he would realize it could happen to him too..i wrote "One day you mite even want to market your own flourish or routine".
I could have said "Yes it's stealing" the next guy wrote "just give credit when credits due" now he has a choice between a negative and what seems to be a positive answer. we never like to be told we're wrong. but if we realize for our self it's wrong we can then move on with a better understanding of why it's wrong. sorry for sounding crazy.

 

[Cardmagic12345]

Look at the money your saving.
Your not hurting anyone right?
Dan and Dave are rich enough.
your not going to teach others anyway right. its for you only.
these guys on you tube do tricks so bad you can't help but see the secret.
Its not stealing if you can't physically put your hand on it and take it.
As for me i kinda like buying and learning from the actual creators. you get to learn the small things you can't see from a demo that makes the trick,slight,flourish or routine 100 times better. With your keen eye can you imagine how much better your magic could be with an actual C.D? you mite even one day create something new and original you would like to market.

Wow that sounded like an sob


1. yes you ARE hurting DnD products
2. DnD are NOT rich they can barely afford not to have a normal job.
2.how do you know he wont share it.

 

[copperfield 14]

Wow that sounded like an sob
2. DnD are NOT rich they can barely afford not to have a normal job.
.

I don't get what your saying.

 

[spikormikor13]

they can barely afford not to have a normal job.

And you know this... How?

 

[Cardmagic12345]

And you know this... How?

I know someone who asked them.
Pretty sure I saw it on a forum topic....on there site


regardless you should be doing it.

 

[trashmanf]

i tihnk there are very few magicians that can make a living exclusively off their tricks, most of them have to have day jobs

even less flourishers can make a living out of it... even De'vo and Jerry have regular jobs...

maybe if "cardistry" gets hella popular then DVDs would sell so much that people could make a living off them... that would be tight!

 

[Nate Malini]

I was afraid My message would be misunderstood i was just trying to paint a pitcher so silly that it would make him draw his own conclusion, the right one. I figured by my last sentence he would realize it could happen to him too..i wrote "One day you mite even want to market your own flourish or routine".
I could have said "Yes it's stealing" the next guy wrote "just give credit when credits due" now he has a choice between a negative and what seems to be a positive answer. we never like to be told we're wrong. but if we realize for our self it's wrong we can then move on with a better understanding of why it's wrong. sorry for sounding crazy.

I wanted to sound like that...i was acting. I'm not a sob. i knew this would happen. i just didn't want him to do it anymore.