Why? They're only coins that are cut and stuff. http://coingaffs.com/default.htm
http://www.toddlassen.com/
http://www.toddlassen.com/
Why are coin gaffs so expensive?
- Thread starter Johnlawl
- Start date
Even without the "cutting and stuff" those coins are worth more than face value. The place where the cutting and stuff is being done cost money. The machines and tools that do the cutting and stuff cost money to purchase, maintain, repair and replace. The person that does the cutting and stuff requires to get paid for his time, skill and expertise or else he/she wouldn't do it. And, just as important, the market is willing to pay the price asked for.
I'd like to add an aside to this topic as well.
All the above reasons are correct. However, you CAN buy cheap gaffs. What's the difference, quality of course.
Are you going to be "caught" by using a gaffed half shell that's only $30 vs a top of the line Jamie Schoolcraft one? Nope. Not unless your technique is poor.
Many times, the quality of the gaffs are for the MAGICIAN'S enjoyment. It's like working with a piece art. Very much in the same way that a honda accord AND a dodge viper will both get you to the same destination, the viper is going to drive better and arguably make you feel better when you're in the driver's seat. The other "car admirers" on the road will appreciate what you've got, but someone ignorant to makes and models of cars will just see that you went from one place to another.
Bottom line, if you can afford something of jamie's, and you are willing to dedicate that kind of money to magic, by all means, they're like butter in your hands. If not for either reason, a cheaper version will very much do, regardless of what others tell you. I went years with them before I could afford a Schoolcraft set and did just fine...didn't get "caught" once that wasn't my fault.
*Note: I'm sure Todd Lassen's quality is equal to Jamie's, I've just personally dealt with Schoolcraft coins and had nothing but a good experience with him and his work. I've spoken with Todd once via email and he seemed like an equally professional man with exceptional people skills, but I'm biased towards Jamie simply because I own several of his products and have been nothing but satisfied thusfar.
All the above reasons are correct. However, you CAN buy cheap gaffs. What's the difference, quality of course.
Are you going to be "caught" by using a gaffed half shell that's only $30 vs a top of the line Jamie Schoolcraft one? Nope. Not unless your technique is poor.
Many times, the quality of the gaffs are for the MAGICIAN'S enjoyment. It's like working with a piece art. Very much in the same way that a honda accord AND a dodge viper will both get you to the same destination, the viper is going to drive better and arguably make you feel better when you're in the driver's seat. The other "car admirers" on the road will appreciate what you've got, but someone ignorant to makes and models of cars will just see that you went from one place to another.
Bottom line, if you can afford something of jamie's, and you are willing to dedicate that kind of money to magic, by all means, they're like butter in your hands. If not for either reason, a cheaper version will very much do, regardless of what others tell you. I went years with them before I could afford a Schoolcraft set and did just fine...didn't get "caught" once that wasn't my fault.
*Note: I'm sure Todd Lassen's quality is equal to Jamie's, I've just personally dealt with Schoolcraft coins and had nothing but a good experience with him and his work. I've spoken with Todd once via email and he seemed like an equally professional man with exceptional people skills, but I'm biased towards Jamie simply because I own several of his products and have been nothing but satisfied thusfar.
Also important to remember: gaffing coins is hard. It's an extremely precise and unforgiving process which takes years to learn properly, requires extremely specialised equipment, and doesn't exactly have a huge market. A good coin gaffer is very much an artist.
Sort of like a safecracker.
Sort of like a safecracker.
That's the case in America, too, but there's a loophole where currency can become a work of artistic expression protected under the first amendment. Nobody's 100% sure where that line is, so the whole "defacing currency" thing tends to be ignored by the authorities.
LOL dude you know your laws !!
But seriously.... I don't think I would buy a 20c SHELL for $80, or a 20c peice enlarged 2x its size for 50$..
But seriously.... I don't think I would buy a 20c SHELL for $80, or a 20c peice enlarged 2x its size for 50$..
I know, it's so frustrating.
I wish Aussie Gaffs sold for $30 or so.
In fact, I can't even FIND Aussie gaffs.You can PM me for some info as I can source you some Aussie coin gaffs.
Anyway in the case of Jamie, I am not very satisfied with the quality of his gaffs.
I truly believe that Todd Lassen's gaffs are far superior, hence the slightly higher price. His work is the closest thing to perfect you'll find.
Anyway in the case of Jamie, I am not very satisfied with the quality of his gaffs.
I truly believe that Todd Lassen's gaffs are far superior, hence the slightly higher price. His work is the closest thing to perfect you'll find.
I have coin gaffs from several makers.
You paying an artist for their work is how I look at it.
I have had Johnson shell coins and have always been ok with their quality in the past.
I recently got a Schoolcraft Walking liberty shell and though it was nice and well made it was out of adjustment. I was able to adjust it with some great advice from a machinist.
I then ordered a gaffus from Todd Lassen and well ....quality is amazing from Todd. I have not had a single problem with any of his gaffs thus far.
When you look at the coins you will see the difference. Todds tend to be thicker and sturdier than Jaime's peices. The faces of the coins also are different due to the method of expansion on the shells in the case of expanded shells.
Todd's attention to detail is that of a perfectionist and that is what your paying for with his gaffs.
Jaime is good but Todd's is better. Both are artists and it is the opinion of each person that uses the gaffs which should help in your decision to get the gaffs.
On the subject of Making gaffed coins ....it is not illegal to make gaffed coins from real one s it is illegal to make new coins in the design of the original coins. I asked a person that works for the U.S. Mint.
Later,
Snorri
You paying an artist for their work is how I look at it.
I have had Johnson shell coins and have always been ok with their quality in the past.
I recently got a Schoolcraft Walking liberty shell and though it was nice and well made it was out of adjustment. I was able to adjust it with some great advice from a machinist.
I then ordered a gaffus from Todd Lassen and well ....quality is amazing from Todd. I have not had a single problem with any of his gaffs thus far.
When you look at the coins you will see the difference. Todds tend to be thicker and sturdier than Jaime's peices. The faces of the coins also are different due to the method of expansion on the shells in the case of expanded shells.
Todd's attention to detail is that of a perfectionist and that is what your paying for with his gaffs.
Jaime is good but Todd's is better. Both are artists and it is the opinion of each person that uses the gaffs which should help in your decision to get the gaffs.
On the subject of Making gaffed coins ....it is not illegal to make gaffed coins from real one s it is illegal to make new coins in the design of the original coins. I asked a person that works for the U.S. Mint.
Later,
Snorri
As per the previous post, I love when people have no idea what they are talking about. Apparently the previous poster's friend "at the mint" is entirely unfamiliar with "US law" regarding "currency". That or, as usual on these things, the poster was just full of garbage.
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
“Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”
Anyway, sorry for intruding - I am law student and hit on this site through a google search. Anyway, it doesn't appear this law is usually enforced for artistic works, etc, as previously mentioned.
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
“Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”
Anyway, sorry for intruding - I am law student and hit on this site through a google search. Anyway, it doesn't appear this law is usually enforced for artistic works, etc, as previously mentioned.
Hold on what the hell? Do you even do tricks? Or are you just a regular guy, found a awesome magic site, and decided to post that.
Yeah - sorry for the ran-ty nature of the post (since I haven't been on here before).
I'm a hobbyist magician with a special love for coin stuff. I have a pretty extensive Todd Lassen collection as well as Mason, Schoolcraft, Johnson and others. But, I was merely trying to correct a point of law. Good luck!
I'm a hobbyist magician with a special love for coin stuff. I have a pretty extensive Todd Lassen collection as well as Mason, Schoolcraft, Johnson and others. But, I was merely trying to correct a point of law. Good luck!
Interesting point of posting the law.
Are coins evidence of Debt or are they something else entirely?
It would appear the law you mentioned is directed towards paper currency more than coins from the wording both on currency itself and on coins.
I am not a lawyer nor do I wish to ever be one.
My friend at the mint is not a lawyer but he is part of the Secret Service. He has gone after people that were making the trick Seeing is Believing, the reason was that there was advertising on the back of the gimmicked bills. He has not gone after anyone for making coin gimmicks.
Coin gimmicks are used in artistic expression and not generally used as coins are normally used.
I would be interested to see what your law professor would say about it.
Are there laws specific to Coins?
Triple Threat is a great gimmick...enjoy.
Mobius
Are coins evidence of Debt or are they something else entirely?
It would appear the law you mentioned is directed towards paper currency more than coins from the wording both on currency itself and on coins.
I am not a lawyer nor do I wish to ever be one.
My friend at the mint is not a lawyer but he is part of the Secret Service. He has gone after people that were making the trick Seeing is Believing, the reason was that there was advertising on the back of the gimmicked bills. He has not gone after anyone for making coin gimmicks.
Coin gimmicks are used in artistic expression and not generally used as coins are normally used.
I would be interested to see what your law professor would say about it.
Are there laws specific to Coins?
Triple Threat is a great gimmick...enjoy.
Mobius
I usually am much less snarky posting on magic forums. I think Simon Lovell got into me when he was lecturing me last month on how these forums are useless because so many people put forth completely bogus information.
To be clear, a coin is a bank note. "Note" means any negotiable legal tender - or money (bills, coins and any yet-to-be-determined forms of currency (shells?)).
Now, there is a complex argument about whether this statute could be used to convict someone since the prescribed "intent" must be proved. However, its clear in gaffing a coin, you intend for it not to be respent. As I mentioned, it is probably inconceivable this law would be used to punish artists (as that might also raise 1st amendment issues). The point of the law is to prevent counterfeiting and the destruction or modification of large amounts of currency for nefarious purposes. However, that is neither here nor there.
It is ILLEGAL in the United states to screw with any legal tender and anyone who works at the mint sure as hell ought to know that. Furthermore, the Mint and the Secret Service are entirely separate. While the Secret Service investigates currency forgery as its primary function, it is part of the Dept of Homeland Security, while the Mint is part of the Treasury.
To be clear, a coin is a bank note. "Note" means any negotiable legal tender - or money (bills, coins and any yet-to-be-determined forms of currency (shells?)).
Now, there is a complex argument about whether this statute could be used to convict someone since the prescribed "intent" must be proved. However, its clear in gaffing a coin, you intend for it not to be respent. As I mentioned, it is probably inconceivable this law would be used to punish artists (as that might also raise 1st amendment issues). The point of the law is to prevent counterfeiting and the destruction or modification of large amounts of currency for nefarious purposes. However, that is neither here nor there.
It is ILLEGAL in the United states to screw with any legal tender and anyone who works at the mint sure as hell ought to know that. Furthermore, the Mint and the Secret Service are entirely separate. While the Secret Service investigates currency forgery as its primary function, it is part of the Dept of Homeland Security, while the Mint is part of the Treasury.